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pcubine

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KCVG-OBBI route on FlightAware has this as part of the route TOPPS N213A ELSIR. N213A is an airway that starts about 600 miles to the WSW of ELSIR and 100 miles to the east of TOPPS. SkyVector shows no waypoint to get onto N213A and SimRoutes says N213A does not exist. I am flying direct from TOPPS to ELSIR.  Is there a way to get onto N213A using the FMC?  

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According to the enroute charts, the N213A starts at TOPPS and ends at ELSIR (wo-way airway). Does the FMC refuses the segment TOPPS N213A ELSIR or do you expect it to do so because of Sky Vector and Simroutes?

 

After a check on Sky Vector, it seems that the display of all these routes is cut so it doesn't give an accurate view.

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Is there a way to get onto N213A using the FMC? 

 

Did you actually try to get it into the FMC?

 

For what it's worth, SimRoutes is terribly old and outdated when it comes to navdata (still has the CAPITAL7 at IAD, which is at least 5ish years old). SkyVector uses the best charts for the area when in World HI view, so it doesn't show the transition routes until you get closer to the NATs and you're on the other chart (can't remember what we call it - it's not the NAR Planning Chart that's on my wall for work, I know that much). If you go to ELSIR and follow the airway back and estimate the track back through where it cuts off, it'll put you at TOPPS.

 

Both resources are great online resources, but one is an outdated sim (i.e. not real world) resource, and the other's charting interface isn't 100% complete (in choosing which HI chart for the overlay for WORLD HI, they had to choose a specific chart, and they ended up overlaying part of the NAT transition chart in the process - you can see similar oddities on the WORLD VFR option: look at 2G9, which appears to be (PVT) QUEMAHENING, but it's actually SOMERSET COUNTY and the label is just being covered by the overlain DETROIT Sectional), though the routing is.

 

For the record, if you had gone into the Flight Plan function and thrown KCVG and OBBI in the airport boxes, followed by TOPPS N213A ELSIR in the route box (press SHIFT TAB after you're done in the route box to move to a different box on the form, which is when the route calculates), it will accept it as a valid route.

 

Next time, it might be good to give it a try in the FMC before assuming something a real world operator (several, in fact) is filing something that cannot be accepted by the automation by a cursory check online.

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I downloaded Navigraph (LIDO) chart NA4H-N which shows N213A as an airway between TOPPS and ELSIR with no waypoints between TOPPS and ELSIR. So when I flew TOPPS direct ELSIR I was on N213A but I just didn't know it thanks to SkyVector ending the east end of the airway in the middle of nowhere.

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I downloaded Navigraph (LIDO) chart NA4H-N which shows N213A as an airway between TOPPS and ELSIR with no waypoints between TOPPS and ELSIR.

 

Yeah, it's really just there to be filed so that the automation can check to ensure you're flying the correct direction between the two points. Note that some of them are one-way airways.

 

 

 


So when I flew TOPPS direct ELSIR I was on N213A but I just didn't know it thanks to SkyVector ending the east end of the airway in the middle of nowhere.

 

Yeah, as I mentioned in the last post, this is due to map overlay issues. When you're planning out over the NATs, you're generally using stronger platforms to do so. If you could find someone who legitimately uses SkyVector to plan and fly across the NATs in the real world, I'd be genuinely surprised. Don't get me wrong - I plan my own flights on it, but the map coverage in my area is better, and I can swap to local charts if I need to.

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Note that some of them are one-way airways.

Believe it or not, I was flying the right way. This is the first time in years that I have had a problem with SkyVector. I would have never notice the problem if the leg hadn't been 642 mile long.

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I uses PFPX and Flightaware for most flights and the West bound trips often lack route information from Flightaware. That's normal.

 

When trying to pick a route over the Canadian Shield, I'll pick a N-route but often have difficulty finding the entry and/or exit fix. The really easy and fast way to get that information is to open wpNavRTE.txt navdata file for routes in a text editor and search on the route string, eg N213A. The fixes in N213A are only TOPPS and ELSIR (takes less than a minute).  The advantage to this is that if it's in navdata then you are certain that the FMS will accept it.

 

I used SkyVector a lot before I got PFPX and now I rarely touch it. It's nice to pull up sectionals or WACs though.

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The really easy and fast way to get that information is to open wpNavRTE.txt navdata file for routes in a text editor and search on the route string, eg N213A.

Dan, thanks for the tip.

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The really easy and fast way to get that information is to open wpNavRTE.txt navdata file for routes in a text editor and search on the route string, eg N213A.

 

Thanks for the info!

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