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G-YMML1

Hardware Decision for V3.0

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I'm not starting this topic at the Hardware Forum as nature of the question is rather commercial than technical.

 

I have i7-2700k (4.4 OC-ed), 2xRaptors, GTX780 and 8GB RAM and it has worked very nicely since April 2012. As P3D is getting more demanding in terms of video, I'm planning to upgrade for 980Ti very soon (hope my Z77 MB is supporting it). However, I'm questioning myself whether it's good idea to start with new, 6700k-based system. My understanding is that even if successfully overclock it to 4.4-4.6, there will be no superiority over my current system.

 

So, the question is money. There are two alternatives.

 

Alternative One: to buy just GTX980Ti, pay $650 and get obvious bump in FPS, AA-settings and other as many simmers reports suggest.

 

Alternative Two: to buy brand new i-6700k based custom made PC for ~$2,000. The real question is whether I get significantly better performance over video-card alone upgrade. P3D still doesn't use multi core power of newest CPU efficiently, so I spend additonal $1,400 over video-upgrade.

 

Your advise would be much appreciated

 

Dmitriy 

 

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If your Z77 mobo supports PCIe 3.0 (some do, some don't), then the video card alone is a good choice.  And maybe revisiting your overclock a bit...most 2700Ks can do 4.7-4.8 with a little work and a high-end after-market cooling solution.

 

If your mobo is PCIe 2 only, then you may want to consider a mobo/CPU upgrade as well...I suspect the 980Ti is gonna be bandwidth limited on PCIe 2 with P3D v3.

 

Regards

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I was looking at doing the same with my computer.

 

I am running an i5-3550 (3.3) no OC with 8GB of ram.

 

My vid card is a Radeon 7800 series that absolutely needs to be changed up. How would I know if my motherboard can accept PCIe 3.0?

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If your Z77 mobo supports PCIe 3.0 (some do, some don't), then the video card alone is a good choice. And maybe revisiting your overclock a bit...most 2700Ks can do 4.7-4.8 with a little work and a high-end after-market cooling solution.

 

If your mobo is PCIe 2 only, then you may want to consider a mobo/CPU upgrade as well...I suspect the 980Ti is gonna be bandwidth limited on PCIe 2 with P3D v3.

 

Regards

Very, very interesting! I also have 780 (with 6 GB BTW) and was thinking about switching it for a 980Ti. I just checked the specs of my motherboard, AsrockZ97 Extreme6 and it says it has 'PCI Express x16 (Gen 3.x) slots'. I suppose, just to be sure, Gen. 3.x is what you call PCIe 3.0...? I really do wonder how much performance will improve in v3. Will it just be a few fps, like going from 30 to 33 or much more? Or will it mainly make it possible to for instance enable 4x SGetc. AA?

 

Btw right now my resolution is 1920x1080.

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So, you think that additional investment into CPU (beyond 100% investment into 980Ti) won't do the magic trick? 

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@Jeroen--more than likely PCIe Gen3.x refers to PCIe v3.0.

 

I think P3D V3 is going to require a re-look at use of PCIe bandwidth.  In FSX, most of the video processing is done by the CPU and then pushed to the graphics subsystem.  In P3D V3 (which leverages DX11), it's obvious that the GPU is getting hit much, much harder.  AFAIK, there are no definitive metrics for bus bandwidth usage in P3D V3 yet.  But if I were going to spring for a 980Ti or Titan X I'd want it to go into a mobo on a bus that can feed it at full speed. 

 

@Brian--you'll need to get the specs from your mobo or system manufacturer, although with an Ivy Bridge CPU, it's highly probable that you do have PCIe 3.

 

Regards

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Folks, how to check with 100% assurance whether my MB PCI-3.0 compliant. The manual was lost during my recent relocation

 

Google it...most mobo manufacturers have manuals in .pdf format available for download.

 

But that said...regarding your CPU...now that I think about it, I don't think a Sandy Bridge CPU can support PCIe 3 even if the mobo does.  That was one of the reasons I moved from a 2600K to my present 4790K.  Sooooo...given that, I might consider going for the full Monty.  But remember, I'm retired from the government...I'm comfortable spending other people's money!  :-)

 

Cheers

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Bob,

 

I have Ivy, not Sandy Bridge.

 

Also, how CPU support or lack of thereof could affect 980Ti performance on MB that supports PCIe-3? My understanding that it's two separate issues.

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Bob,

 

I have Ivy, not Sandy Bridge.

 

Also, how CPU support or lack of thereof could affect 980Ti performance on MB that supports PCIe-3? My understanding that it's two separate issues.

 

Dmitriy;

 

A 2700K is most definitely a Sandy Bridge CPU.  Ivy Bridge are the 3000 series i3/5/7 processors.

 

The PCIe bus originates in the CPU.  SB CPUs do not support the higher bandwidth.

 

See: http://www.overclock.net/t/1317094/sandybridge-and-pcie-3-0-not-compatible-well-this-is-a-kick-in-the-teeth

 

Regards

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I'm not starting this topic at the Hardware Forum as nature of the question is rather commercial than technical.

 

I have i7-2700k (4.4 OC-ed), 2xRaptors, GTX780 and 8GB RAM and it has worked very nicely since April 2012. As P3D is getting more demanding in terms of video, I'm planning to upgrade for 980Ti very soon (hope my Z77 MB is supporting it). However, I'm questioning myself whether it's good idea to start with new, 6700k-based system. My understanding is that even if successfully overclock it to 4.4-4.6, there will be no superiority over my current system.

 

Your advise would be much appreciated

 

Dmitriy 

 

 

Do some googling re. pci express 3.0 versus 2.0 and I think you will find there is almost no practical difference with most benchmarks.

 

eg

http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/pci-express-scaling-game-performance-analysis-review,17.html

 

The new card would be the way to go.

Faster and with double the memory.

If you are still not happy you can always put the 980ti in a Skylake board later.

Putting your old 780 in Skylake would be holding it back I think.

 

gb.

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Very, very interesting! I also have 780 (with 6 GB BTW) and was thinking about switching it for a 980Ti. I just checked the specs of my motherboard, AsrockZ97 Extreme6 and it says it has 'PCI Express x16 (Gen 3.x) slots'. I suppose, just to be sure, Gen. 3.x is what you call PCIe 3.0...? I really do wonder how much performance will improve in v3. Will it just be a few fps, like going from 30 to 33 or much more? Or will it mainly make it possible to for instance enable 4x SGetc. AA?

 

Btw right now my resolution is 1920x1080.

I have just upgraded my GPU which is the same as yours..GTX780 and got a GTX980TI...My Mobo  supports Gen2 but the 980 works fine at x16, i`ve just done a bios update which now allows me to close or rather shut down any of the 4 PCI lanes and make a dedicated slot now with full x16 bandwidth Gen3 in 1 slot which works fantastic. Gone from 18-30 fps with the 780 up to 40-70 fps mostly with the 980TI, i run frames unlocked with Gsync.

 

Rick

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Just this week I could finally justify a rebuild of my P3D computer.

 

My 2600k was such a great overclocker that for the last few years any upgrade wasn't worth the price.

 

I run 2 x 970's in SLI in 4K. The Skylake 6700k combined with the z170 motherboards showed a significant boost in benchmarks with SLI.

 

I still can't comment on any personal experince as I am yet to overclock and install addons to P3D 2.5 and 3.0

 

I'm excited to see what this new build and P3Dv3 will bring.

 

Cheers

Steve

 

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I have just upgraded my GPU which is the same as yours..GTX780 and got a GTX980TI...My Mobo supports Gen2 but the 980 works fine at x16, i`ve just done a bios update which now allows me to close or rather shut down any of the 4 PCI lanes and make a dedicated slot now with full x16 bandwidth Gen3 in 1 slot which works fantastic. Gone from 18-30 fps with the 780 up to 40-70 fps mostly with the 980TI, i run frames unlocked with Gsync.

 

Rick

Wow, that really sounds very interesting! I think I will order a 980Ti to give it a try! I can always return it if I don't like what I see. Someone I know already showed interest in buying my 780 which would make this switch even nicer.

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Gone from 18-30 fps with the 780 up to 40-70 fps mostly with the 980TI, i run frames unlocked with Gsync.

 

 

That sounds interesting. I'm also thinking about making the switch from a 780 to a 980Ti. Should be worth it, especially since I'm running a triple monitor setup.

 

@Jeroen: Please let us know your experiences if you also make the switch! Thanks!

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Quick question, folks. As the full PC rebuild for me is taken off the plate and I have some budget $$$ surplus, would it be smart to invest either into Titan 12GB (assuming that it will be on the same Sabertooth Z77 motherboard) or add two SSD (250/500) for the system and P3D separately.

 

Appreciate your thoughts. 

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I would think that the Titan X is a complete overkill. It is only slightly faster than the 980Ti in most benchmarks and the 12 Gb will not be used in P3D, except if you run triple 4K monitors. So I would rather spend the money on SSDs.

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That sounds interesting. I'm also thinking about making the switch from a 780 to a 980Ti. Should be worth it, especially since I'm running a triple monitor setup.

 

@Jeroen: Please let us know your experiences if you also make the switch! Thanks!

 

Will do! I already created three testflights: default Carenedo plane on autopilot, approaching 1. New York, 2. Seattle and 3 Seattle fogged in (added this test later on specially for testing NI's 4xSGAA mode), and I already tested all those flights twice (with a complete PC restart in between all tests), making note of the average fps after 30 and 60 seconds with 1. my regular settings (which btw are quite high already), 2. ultra settings and 3. ultra settings plus NI's 4xSGAA. All this with frame limiter at unlimited btw!

 

So far fps is 28,4 at highest (regular settings, approaching Seattle after 60 seconds) and 14,6 at lowest (ultra settings plus NI, Seattle fogged in after 60 seconds). I already ordered the 980 Ti (from a shop where I can return it no questions asked, just to be sure) and hopefully I can complete the tests somewhere this week!

I would think that the Titan X is a complete overkill. It is only slightly faster than the 980Ti in most benchmarks and the 12 Gb will not be used in P3D, except if you run triple 4K monitors. So I would rather spend the money on SSDs.

 

Well, not if you take into consideration that he currently has a GTX 780. Not that 980 Ti. ;)

 

Going from a 780 to a 980 Ti should defenitely have an impact on actual performance which can not be said of getting SSD's! SSD's are only great for faster startup and no need to defrag anymore. If you want to be certain, G-YMML1, you could wait for the results of the test I just announced.

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Quick question, folks. As the full PC rebuild for me is taken off the plate and I have some budget $$$ surplus, would it be smart to invest either into Titan 12GB (assuming that it will be on the same Sabertooth Z77 motherboard) or add two SSD (250/500) for the system and P3D separately.

 

Appreciate your thoughts. 

 

Not unless you're running multiple monitors or 4K with super-aggressive AA/AF settings.

 

Regards

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Okey, thank you, folks for the suggestions


Final hardware question (I promise!!!) for non-hardware forums.

 

I have two Raptors (one for W7, the other - for P3D only, not other "games" installed). I don't want to deal with the entire system software re-install, thus I'd like to add SSD as another drive and put V3.0 onto this SSD. Assuming that the system (W7 and stuff) will stay on HD Raptor, will I really benefit from using separate SSD for v3.0? OR I should have both the system and the sim of SSD/SSDs in order to see some valuable performance gain?

 

Again, thanks for your help, gentlemen.

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Do some googling re. pci express 3.0 versus 2.0 and I think you will find there is almost no practical difference with most benchmarks.

 

eg

http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/pci-express-scaling-game-performance-analysis-review,17.html

 

The new card would be the way to go.

Faster and with double the memory.

If you are still not happy you can always put the 980ti in a Skylake board later.

Putting your old 780 in Skylake would be holding it back I think.

 

gb.

 

Thanks for posting that.  So 3-5% difference between PCIe 2.0 and 3.0 if you have a processor that's fast enough to saturate the bus.

 

Interesting.

 

Cheers

Okey, thank you, folks for the suggestions

Final hardware question (I promise!!!) for non-hardware forums.

 

I have two Raptors (one for W7, the other - for P3D only, not other "games" installed). I don't want to deal with the entire system software re-install, thus I'd like to add SSD as another drive and put V3.0 onto this SSD. Assuming that the system (W7 and stuff) will stay on HD Raptor, will I really benefit from using separate SSD for v3.0? OR I should have both the system and the sim of SSD/SSDs in order to see some valuable performance gain?

 

Again, thanks for your help, gentlemen.

 

An SSD will make no noticable difference in the sim's performance unless you are using a lot of photoscenery.  It will load the sim MUCH faster, which is actually significant if you do development or a lot of tweaking and stop/restart the sim over and over.  Having the OS on an SSD will make it boot quicker.  Personally, I'd leave the OS on the raptor and put P3D on an SSD.

 

Cheers

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Thank you, Bob - that is my plan to leave OS on Raptor and put v3.0 on planned-to-purchase SSD

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What Bob says: do not get an SSD to get better performance in the sim. You won't notice any difference when it comes to fps. If you want to see a difference in performance, replace the 780 with for instance a 980 Ti. As I said I will post my personal test results with the exact same switch later on this week.

 

Moving the sim from your Raptor to an SSD won't help you at all apart from faster loading the initial flight (not loading textures etc. during flight) so I doubt if you will find that worth the money...

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Aren't Raptors rather small? Been awhile since I ran any but their capacity topped out at what 180Gb? Whereas with your budget you should be able to afford a 480-500GB SSD and, probably more. I think if you are prudent with your space/budget you should be able to get your OS and P3D on the same drive.

 

Anyway bottom line is move off HDD. There maybe nothing in-sim to notice but life is too short to be waiting for an OS to boot and in a full-loaded P3D a mega-app to load.

 

Interestingly I just spent this week-end moving my 2600K (OC at 4.8GHz) to an i7 6700. Not because Skylake is better for P3D or, even my other computing needs simply because the water-coooler pump gave out after several years of service! Needless to say a new build feels slick and sharp. A multitude of USB ports in the Z170 MB spec is much welcome when trying to connect-up a collection of Saitek panels and peripherals. Can't comment on the graphics as was already running a 980. 

 

My dealer suggested I add an Intel SSD 750 running on the PCIe. Despite having run my SSDs in RAID0 for several years this blows the socks off anything I have used before. A clean Win10 install starts almost instantly. Highly recommended. This is a performance gain you will notice and never want to give up.

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