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ATC vectoring around significant weather...

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Does any of the ATC robots available for FSX allow for requests for diversion around significant weather areas ?

 

Say you're enroute and ahead a big CB is showing it's echoes, and you want to vector away from it... Are the available ATC programs wise enough to comply with such situations ?

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I don't think so if you're talking about pilot weather deviation requests (i.e. "…we would like to deviate 20 degrees left for build-ups"). 

You raise a good and common point in real-world ops. 

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I believe RC4 does laterally and I know PFE you can request  it by vertical deviation. ProATC-X which I use now, does not seem to have this ability. Though you can request a normal altitude change. Don't know about VOXATC.

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VoxATC has this capability, at least according to the manual (page 44).

 

Also does altitude change requests (page 42) though I can't say I've tried out either.

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Radar Contact's controllers will allow the following enroute requests

 

Request higher and lower altitudes
Request initial descent be a pilot’s discretion clearance
Pilot’s discretion descents
Request deviations left and right of course for weather
Request altitude deviations due to turbulence

Request direct routing to down-line waypoints in the flight plan
Leave frequency to get weather update

 

Full feature chart here:

http://www.jdtllc.com/Feature%20Chart.htm

 

Gave up on ProATC when I discovered that once you request to decend you cannot cancel the request, its basically flight over at that point.

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Thank you all for the answers!

 

And yes - it was weather deviation requests I was talking about :)

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Gave up on ProATC when I discovered that once you request to decend you cannot cancel the request, its basically flight over at that point.

You can request a descent by using the altitude change option in other requests menu. Pressing the initiate descent option button will start the approach procedure, at that point you are committed. I agree with it being the #1 menu option it's easy to accidentally hit it, as that key is the key that brings up the main menu. Would be better if it was further down the list.

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Tom, three times I have inadvertently asked to begin decent and then found that there is no way back from that.

Requesting a higher altitude lets you climb again but once you reach the requested altitude ProATC starts you back down again, this is just poor program design.

 

The menu system is just badly laid out, confirm instruction jumps about between key 2 and key 3.

so it is impossible control by any voice app

 

I am not exactly sorry I bought the software as it will be interesting monitoring it's development and we really need more ATC options so I am happy to support anyone willing to have a go at programming one. but it still needs significant work to the ATC logic before it can compete with RC4 and PFE.

And no ATIS, really ?

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still needs significant work to the ATC logic before it can compete with RC4 and PFE.

And no ATIS, really ?

 

It's all about what is important to you. What works for others, might not work for everyone.

 

As for ProATC not providing it's own ATIS so you would have to use the sim's ATIS. The ATIS info is displayed on the ProATC's moving map (at the moment).

 

FWIW I can say the same about RC4 No taxi instructions, no SIDs/STARs/transitions, no holdings, telling me to fly into a mountain, really? I do agree, that currently all ATC programs have features that other programs should/could have. 

Edited by Jarkko

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And no ATIS, really ?

True it has no ATIS by voice (You can use default ATC ATIS, or through ASN if you have it. as a substitute.). You can get weather both for departure and destination by text though.

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The menu system is just badly laid out, confirm instruction jumps about between key 2 and key 3.

so it is impossible control by any voice app

 

This had me thinking: what things did you access from the menu during the flight? The reason why I'm asking is that, I don't open the ProATC menu (once airborne) at all during a normal flight. I only open it if I have to request a step climb.

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This had me thinking: what things did you access from the menu during the flight? The reason why I'm asking is that, I don't open the ProATC menu (once airborne) at all during a normal flight. I only open it if I have to request a step climb.

 

Then how do you confirm instructions without knowing which of key 2 or 3 will give the correct response or are you letting the Co pilot handle comms ?

I handle comms myself because I use Goflight hardware, I have no interest in the copilot functions of ProATC and it is the ATC logic I am having issues with, for example not being able to cancel a request which has ruined three flights for me so far. it's almost as if you are following a script and the program is stuck in a loop. it needs flexibility.

 

It's still early days for ProATC and I look forward to the improvements that will come as the program matures, I want it to succeed but it has some way to go till it is a well rounded reliable program.

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Then how do you confirm instructions without knowing which of key 2 or 3 will give the correct response or are you letting the Co pilot handle comms ?

I handle comms myself because I use Goflight hardware, I have no interest in the copilot functions of ProATC 

 

I also have hardware controllers, but like to fly "as real as it gets". In tube liners, I'm the one flying and my co-pilot handles radios and reads back the instructions.

 

This is why I don't need to access the menu structure during the flight. No errant requests, no ruined flights.

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Jarkko, I can see how that works well for you, but not all of us fly tubes all the time.

The menu system needs a complete rework, having the same key to open the menu and also for the key to contact atc is not a good design, same for the read back key moving its menu slot depending on the stages of flight, what was the logic in that programming decision.

 

At this point it seems that ProATC is focused more on being an ATC ambiance program with Co pilot facilities than a fully featured ATC, so it's probably not for me at this stage in its development.

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Jarkko, I can see how that works well for you, but not all of us fly tubes all the time.

 

 

ProATC is designed with a specific segment in mind. It says so on the ProATC's main site:

 

'So if you prefer "The Big Ones", you are for sure surfing on the right site.'

 

For example VFR flights are not supported at all at the moment. For the best experience, IFR flight to and from airports that have departure and arrival procedures in place.

 

At this point it seems that ProATC is focused more on being an ATC ambiance program with Co pilot facilities than a fully featured ATC

 

Thanks you for the laughs! Haven't blown a drink out of my nose in a while :) I have to say that I disagree.

 

Thanks for the input!

 

EDIT: Tell you what, I try to keep an open mind so if you are up for a challenge, can you please do this:

 

Can you have the co-pilot handle the radio and comms and do a flight with ProATC. Preferably using a real world flight plan from flightaware or eurofpl.eu (for example).

 

If you still feel that you are using "an ambient generator", please post a log of the flight on the support forum and I'll have a look. If we find something catastrophic, I will include the flight in my beta test schedule.

Edited by Jarkko

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Jarkko, try a flight handling the comms yourself without opening the menu and let me know how you get on.

I never mentioned VFR, it's not only the tubes that fly IFR using departure and arrival procedures.

To my way of thinking, if the copilot handles everything then the ATC is just ambience and nothing more.

 

Regardless, Avsim is not the place to discuss issues with ProATC, if I decide to use the program again and run into issues I will send the relevent logs to your support forum.

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Jarkko, try a flight handling the comms yourself without opening the menu and let me know how you get on.

 

With the current release version, no one can do that due to a confirmed bug in 1.7.x.x.

 

This is why I'm asking you to try ProATC so that the co-pilot is handling the comms and reading back instructions. This way you could at least get a feel how the program works when you do not hit a confirmed bug along the way.

 

After the bug fix, you could try again and see how it feels. (the fix will not change the menu structure, but at least you will be able to complete a flight my manually tuning the radios and confirming instructions)

 

(FWIW It's not my support forum. I'm a volunteer beta tester, that's all)

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With the current release version, no one can do that due to a confirmed bug in 1.7.x.x.

 

 

So it's basically broken at this point  for anyone who prefers handling the comms on their own.

 

I will try a flight with the copilot handling the comms to get a better feel for the program but hope this if fixed soon.

 

I also note that the program provides full ATC services, clearance delivery, ground, tower ect even at airports that do not have all of these in the real world, why does it not know from the data what facilities should be available ?

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So it's basically broken at this point  for anyone who prefers handling the comms on their own.

 

The problem is two fold:

 

1) A log from you on the support forum helped to find that there is a case where you might end in a Please affirm" loop, if a manually sent transmission gets blocked by AI aircraft transmitting on the same frequency. So until a fix is implemented you should have the co-pilot  tune comms and  read back instructions.

 

2) The problem you (or another GoFlight user) were having, was that the GoFlight software was sending the same comm frequency to the SimConnect over and over again (in fixed intervals). This for example doesn't happen on my system with MCP Combo II over LINDA. Similar thing has happened with the Aerosoft's Airbus, but Aerosoft implemented a fix for it.

 

As you and me are already looking at this problem on the official forum, should we continue this discussion there?

 

 

I will try a flight with the copilot handling the comms to get a better feel for the program but hope this if fixed soon.

 

Thanks!

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