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klamal

Too bad we can't have it all :)

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So, just thinking out loud here and wishing upon a star...I bought X-Plane about 2 months ago now after being a long, long, long time user of MSFS and have really enjoyed what that sim has to offer too.  I've even said in a few posts here that I was thinking about selling all my FSX/P3D add ons and completely switching.  But, it turns out that I don't think I totally can.

 

As I sit hear on a gorgeous flight from CYYC-CYKA in the unbelievably awesome Majestic Q400 with the best weather engine in any flight sim(ASN), I can't help but wish I could meld together the areas of X-Plane that are better than the areas of FSX/P3D and vice versa into one sim.

 

The scenery in FSX/P3D is just ruined for me now since trying X-Plane.  I've seen it mentioned somewhere else before, FSX/P3D is like flying against a painting where X-Plane, that's like actually being there.  And, that couldn't be so true.  The view of the mountains and the water here over western Canada just would be so much better in XP.  It all seems so "flat" and painted on a canvas compared to the depth and realism of what XP can show you out the window.

 

However, at the same time, the weather in XP just sucks compared to what ASN is giving me.  Just gorgeous weather.  Along with REX and the skies are just awesome!!  And, of course, the Q400.  Nothing in XP yet that can compare to the level of add on A/C that we have in the MSFS world.  PMDG, A2A, RealAir, Majestic and even Aerosoft's Buses.

 

So, for in the cockpit and for out the window above the ground, I love P3D and can't stand not having it.  And, for what is on the ground and the feeling of actually being in the environment in XP, I can't stand not having it.  The child in me wants both!!!!  The adult in me knows that life doesn't work that way.  Too bad we can't have our cake and eat it too!  :)

 

Anyway, sorry for a mostly pointless post and something any of us that have used both sims don't already know.  Just had to say it.

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Regards,

 

Kevin LaMal

"Facts Don't Care About Your Feelings" - Shapiro2024

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Look here for some hope in the Flight Sim future: http://nexgenflightsim.com/

 

We have waited this long, and development is said to begin January 2016 for this project. Because it is going to 64bit, it should be able to have the best of all sim's and more.  

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I've felt that way for a long time, so join the club. I think people are always satisfied with they have.... until they get a glimpse into the other garden. I haven't been able to use FSX for a while now. If you saw my Steam logon, you would see me on for a total of less than a half hour probably since SE was released. I keep logging in, sighing and logging right back out!

 

X-plane is definitely closer, most especially at night, but then........... I drifted away from that, too.

 

Now My hope is Outerra, or maybe whatever Dovetail comes up with.

 

Because if you know what computers are capable of now, compared with we have..... it's just....... eh.


Just Flight Beta Tester
 
We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
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I just wonder why people shy away from using outtera? It's a great base already, the entire would is modeled scenery design is easy ect just point and click while in sim. The performance even with addon planes and airports is great ect. I like XP at night but that's because of the awesome lighting and the fact I can't see the horrid ground textures that look like they came from the 90s. I just can't bring myself to buy payware for it because the sim it self lacks so much.


David Womacks CFI,CFII,MEI

Copilot: Captain have you ever flown a 777 before?

Captain:Nope,but we got a strong tail wind and the bar in Hong Kong stays open till 5am, so lets kick the tires, light the fires and, get the hell outta here.

 

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I just wonder why people shy away from using outtera? It's a great base already, the entire would is modeled scenery design is easy ect just point and click while in sim. The performance even with addon planes and airports is great ect. I like XP at night but that's because of the awesome lighting and the fact I can't see the horrid ground textures that look like they came from the 90s. I just can't bring myself to buy payware for it because the sim it self lacks so much.

 

The thing about XP at the moment is that a lot of times, at least for scenery (and sometimes for planes!) the difference between freeware and payware is pretty thin. Essentially, if you search for the good freeware, there is almost no need to buy Xp payware.

 

Just in the last week or so, I remember seeing some excitement about some sort of beautiful freeware airport for XP, but I've drifted so far that I didn't even bother reading up on it. Maybe later.

 

As for Outerra, I just posted a video on reddit (can't post vids here right now due to some sort of problem) of my flying over a city with shadows, AA, clouds, ambient occlusion etc at about 100fps. Outerra will find its day I think, eventually, but people right now are very invested into their favorites, and it will have to be the early adapters that will help take things to the next level.

 

Like the guy who has FSX driving Outerra visuals. (my new hero)

 

Come to think of it, I did buy a Carenado something or other on a whim for X-plane, but its pretty heavy on frames and I hardly ever load it.


Just Flight Beta Tester
 
We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i7 8700K @ 5.0GHz / 32.0GB G.SKILL TridentZ Series Dual-Channel Ram / ZOTAC GAMING GeForce® RTX 2080 Ti Triple Fan / Sound Blaster Z / Oculus Rift VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 2x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 1x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1000GB / 5 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity each / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5 Motherboard

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I'm very back and forth, when it comes to mountain scenery. X-Plane mountains look great, but can also fizzle out, in some areas where Orbx scenery brings FSX to life. I believe I read the post about possible getting rid of FSX/P3D. At the time I was thinking...............don't do it. X-Plane is new to you, but sometimes you'll find that it's lacking compared to what you already had. I run both sims, and think it's the best way. My preferred aircraft, are still for FSX. Realair & A2A.

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I'm very back and forth, when it comes to mountain scenery. X-Plane mountains look great, but can also fizzle out, in some areas where Orbx scenery brings FSX to life. I believe I read the post about possible getting rid of FSX/P3D. At the time I was thinking...............don't do it. X-Plane is new to you, but sometimes you'll find that it's lacking compared to what you already had. I run both sims, and think it's the best way. My preferred aircraft, are still for FSX. Realair & A2A.

Yep. I posted that two or three weeks ago now. I'm glad I didn't get rid of P3D and actually have flown that sim more than XP again over the past week...exactly why I posted this to begin with. At first, I was so in love with XP. But, now that the wow factor has passed, I see the pluses and minuses of both and as I originally stated, I can't live without either now. Just depends on the mood and what I want to get out of each flight. So, yeah, I can't believe it but I am officially in the multiple sim camp now. Somewhere I thought I'd never be.


Regards,

 

Kevin LaMal

"Facts Don't Care About Your Feelings" - Shapiro2024

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Agree with everything you said. Its extremely disappointing why more people don't start using or developing for Outerra. Its rendering engine is leagues ahead of xplane or p3d. Outerra is the closest you can get to reality. The atmospheric effects are just too good. And all of this while getting extremely good frame rates. If and when Outerra starts development for a flight sim, it will completely sweep the market. People will flock over it once the see the true potential of outerra. I gave up on FSX/P3D. Everything in those sims looks too artificial and the night flying is horrendous. I do still use XP10 from time to time but i'll shelf it for sure once Outerra comes out with its own Flight Sim. I am also keeping an eye out for Next Gen Flight Sim. Looks pretty impressive so far.


Baber

 

My Youtube Channel http://www.youtube.com/user/HDOnlive

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Agree with everything you said. Its extremely disappointing why more people don't start using or developing for Outerra. Its rendering engine is leagues ahead of xplane or p3d. Outerra is the closest you can get to reality. The atmospheric effects are just too good. And all of this while getting extremely good frame rates. If and when Outerra starts development for a flight sim, it will completely sweep the market. People will flock over it once the see the true potential of outerra. I gave up on FSX/P3D. Everything in those sims looks too artificial and the night flying is horrendous. I do still use XP10 from time to time but i'll shelf it for sure once Outerra comes out with its own Flight Sim. I am also keeping an eye out for Next Gen Flight Sim. Looks pretty impressive so far.

 

Here is a short discussion as to why Outerra is not being used for new development projects:

 

http://nexgenflightsim.com/discussions/#/discussion/115/outerra

 

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Here is a short discussion as to why Outerra is not being used for new development projects:

 

http://nexgenflightsim.com/discussions/#/discussion/115/outerra

 

 

In honest fact, if you look at the development of that initiative, Unigine was always pushed, from first to last, so I take some things with large, heaping helpings of salt. What other engines were looked at with any serious eye as far as detailed testing and feedback?

 

Many people there who were expecting an exhaustive round of examination, critique, and discussion of various options lost a bit of faith when it seemed that winds were only going to blow from one direction.

 

I wish them well, though.


Just Flight Beta Tester
 
We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i7 8700K @ 5.0GHz / 32.0GB G.SKILL TridentZ Series Dual-Channel Ram / ZOTAC GAMING GeForce® RTX 2080 Ti Triple Fan / Sound Blaster Z / Oculus Rift VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 2x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 1x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1000GB / 5 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity each / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5 Motherboard

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In honest fact, if you look at the development of that initiative, Unigine was always pushed, from first to last, so I take some things with large, heaping helpings of salt. What other engines were looked at with any serious eye as far as detailed testing and feedback?

 

Many people there who were expecting an exhaustive round of examination, critique, and discussion of various options lost a bit of faith when it seemed that winds were only going to blow from one direction.

 

I wish them well, though.

 

I take things with a whole mine of salt, so you get a little perspective of my position.

 

There are very few choices for available engines to develop on that are; easily available w/o loops and pinholes to jump through (lawyers galore), which have the ability to render the whole round earth, affordable, and where the engine developer actually assists as part of the package speeding the development process. Another round (year) of exhaustive examination will only mean more time spent dealing with OOM's and/or reducing the sliders for us flight simmers, plus more of our money spent add-ons for ancient platforms - enough is enough.  

 

There is a history of discussions concerning other engines which turned sour leading to some leaving the project, and this in turn resulted in users and their related posts to be deleted. Its a shame we can't see those discussions, but there are a lot of 3D engine topics totally deleted, so the fact is, early on there was variable winds blowing in a few different directions. There had to come a time to settle on an engine so development can begin. Along with the 3D engine, several tool sets will be used to replicate the planet, and develop a new flight simulator.

 

I'm not saying that NGFS will even exist, I'm just saying that I currently have no reason to believe that it is a hoax. So, I will treat them like a great new flight simulation company and encourage the effort until I have a reason not to. I would encourage every simmer to just check the forums occasionally for development/status updates and just post a little note of encouragement or offer some constructive criticism.  

 

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I'm not saying that NGFS will even exist, I'm just saying that I currently have no reason to believe that it is a hoax. So, I will treat them like a great new flight simulation company and encourage the effort until I have a reason not to. I would encourage every simmer to just check the forums occasionally for development/status updates and just post a little note of encouragement or offer some constructive criticism.  

 

 

I don't believe they are a hoax at all. I just a lost a measure of faith in the democracy of the decision making process of what was and is billed as a cooperative effort by the community.

 

Beyond that, I wish them all the best, and will look with interest at what they produce.


Just Flight Beta Tester
 
We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i7 8700K @ 5.0GHz / 32.0GB G.SKILL TridentZ Series Dual-Channel Ram / ZOTAC GAMING GeForce® RTX 2080 Ti Triple Fan / Sound Blaster Z / Oculus Rift VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 2x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 1x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1000GB / 5 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity each / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5 Motherboard

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I don't believe they are a hoax at all. I just a lost a measure of faith in the democracy of the decision making process of what was and is billed as a cooperative effort by the community.

 

Beyond that, I wish them all the best, and will look with interest at what they produce.

 

I was not suggesting that you or anyone believed it was a hoax, I truly believe you wish them all the best, I was just communicating my position and the fact that I'm monitoring this project very closely.  

 

I'm sure the people at NGiS would have looked at anything that was brought to the table, but the coop effort they attempted was not really received well. I did not even know about this project until flightsim.com put an interview with Stephen B on 10/2/15! So while NGiS was looking for a democracy, the community leaders kept the attempt secret by saying nothing - no news - no recognition - zilch. After reading the interview I scoured the internet for any further info.Then I find a single forum post on Avsim about the project that I think got totally deleted afterward, talk about democracy. NGiS tried democracy and got the cold shoulder or I would have known about this back in April or maybe earlier.

 

I do understand that w/o a concrete project its hard to make a news item, but we are a tight community that gets nothing from nobody, and we must take care of each other in light of the common goal. All the flight sim news sites would do themselves no harm at all in just letting the community know about the existence of the NexGen Flight sim project....but no. So how does a new flight sim company even get off the ground....all alone with no cooperation.

 

I too wish them well and am enjoying the discussions in the NGiS forum related to the progress of the project.    

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I don't believe they are a hoax at all. I just a lost a measure of faith in the democracy of the decision making process of what was and is billed as a cooperative effort by the community.

 

Beyond that, I wish them all the best, and will look with interest at what they produce.

It's their decision which engine they want to use. Not that Outerra is any better Unigine anyways. Have you tried their new demo ? I have been a long time user of Outerra and I can daresay that their engine(Unigine) is quite better than what Outerra has to offer currently. Don't get me wrong I really like Outerra and always thought of it as being the top dog as far as sim engines goes but I was pleasantly surprised after trying NGFS demo. There are quite a bit of things (I dont want to go into detail here) that I noticed which are present in Unigine that are absent in Outerra. The atmospheric effects looks better and the overall lighting specially global illumination looks better. The weather and rain effects are also top notch.

 

I'll be honest with you. I dont really care about Outerra anymore. We have waited. And we have waited long enough. I'd rather show my support for guys who are actually in the process of building a new advanced sim rather than hoping against hope for Outerra to become a flight sim one day. NGIS devs are super nice. They are actually willing to include the community requested features(https://trello.com/b/HPJrNcQM/features-voting-board). They are very dedicated and passionate about NGFS and I wish them all the very best.

 

 

P.S. IMO NGFS needs its dedicated thread here on AVSIM.


Baber

 

My Youtube Channel http://www.youtube.com/user/HDOnlive

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I know all about NGIS.... I was there at the beginning, when there were about ten guys on the forum, and was one of the people who tested the original demo. I also was talking with Mr Borick both publicly and privately.

 

I believe I'm probably the first person to ever mention it on this forum! http://www.avsim.com/topic/467836-bumped-into-this-on-the-web/?hl=+next%20+generation%20+flight%20+symposium

 

Which eventually moved to this: http://www.avsim.com/topic/468499-next-generation-flight-simulator-sim-posium-is-now-open/


Just Flight Beta Tester
 
We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i7 8700K @ 5.0GHz / 32.0GB G.SKILL TridentZ Series Dual-Channel Ram / ZOTAC GAMING GeForce® RTX 2080 Ti Triple Fan / Sound Blaster Z / Oculus Rift VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 2x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 1x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1000GB / 5 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity each / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5 Motherboard

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