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Von Rondstadd

Update message: Topcat is not going to be updated with the PMDG 777-300ER!

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Hello all,

 

Topcat is not going to be updated with the PMDG 777-300ER!

 

Asked about this with Judith Blaschegg (FlightSimSoft.com)

 

 

 

This is the awnser I got:

 

Nov 14, 11:30

 

at the moment there are no plans to add the B777-300 to TOPCAT, the -200LR/freigher variant is already available (in beta) but adding a new aircraft type is very time consuming and for some aircraft there are no data available.

 

Sorry to be not able to give you a positive answer.

 

 

So for many years they have given us false information at their forum telling us that they where working on a profile for the 777-300ER!

 

Does anybody know a good alternative takeoff performance calculator for the 777-300ER?

 

 

 

Robert

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Hello,

 

I agree with Kevin, I'm using Toper 777 for all three versions of the T7 (-200LR, 200LRF,  300ER) and I'm perfectly fine with it. I have actually stopped using Topcat since I have it.

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So for many years they have given us false information at their forum telling us that they where working on a profile for the 777-300ER!

 

 

 

Agree.

 

It is a shame.

 

The advantage of TOPCAT is that it is integrated with PFPX. No need to retype the temperature, runway, etc to make the calculation. In addition all the take-off data are automatically reported into the OFP.

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I still use the 777F profile in topcat for the 77W, and just reduce the assumed temp by about 3-5degC (to give a slight increase in power).

 

I then use the FMC calculated V Speeds instead of Topcat's.

 

I know this is not ideal, but it has not failed me yet.

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This is really a shame, I was really looking forward to the 300er performance package.....

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This is really a shame, I was really looking forward to the 300er performance package.....

 

It is, to be fair to them though, manually entering multiple performance variables that they have to calculate off graphs is pretty time consuming for a product update with no cost...

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Agree.

 

It is a shame.

 

The advantage of TOPCAT is that it is integrated with PFPX. No need to retype the temperature, runway, etc to make the calculation. In addition all the take-off data are automatically reported into the OFP.

Agree with you but it is not complete if you do not update Topcat!

In my opinion you can not stop making updates for Topcat if the program is working together with another program (PFPX)

 

 

 

 

 

It is, to be fair to them though, manually entering multiple performance variables that they have to calculate off graphs is pretty time consuming for a product update with no cost...

 

 

I understand this it takes time!

But why did they told us for years they where working on a pmdg 777-300 profile?

 

 

I can not speak for you Guy's but I am willing to pay a fair amount of money for a good 777-300ER profile!

 

Buying a program for the PMDG 777-300ER like Toper or a profile for Topcat working with PFPX is the same for me!

 

 

TOPER for the 777 is supposed to be good. I don't have it but people in my VA recommended it.

 

I understand Toper does not support Fixed derate calculation?

Does anybody know if there is a good app for Ipad?

 

 

Robert

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I understand Toper does not support Fixed derate calculation?

Does anybody know if there is a good app for Ipad?

 

 

Robert

 

 

TOPER wont give you derates will it? just assumed Temps

 

Yes Toper 777 allow to use DTO-1 and DTO-2 along with the assumed temp just like Topcat does.

However, a difference is that Toper reverts automatically with the assumed temp corresponding to the fixed derate chosen.

 

It means that no matter what you choose (no derate, DTO-1 or DTO-2), Toper will revert with an assumed temp if the conditions allow it.

It is the only thing I regret from Topcat, was the ability to "choose" your takeoff speeds with or without assumed temp as in some circumstances, I would like to have a fixed derate without assumed temp.

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TOPCAT team has a history with this, making promises they couldn't keep, changing their mind on important things last minute, opening up the platform, only to close it down even more, deleting and banning anyone who dared disagree with them on their forums etc. etc. 

 

Topcat is a great product and apparently so is PFPX, but I decline to support this kind of behaviour anymore.

 

 

Anyway, there was a good effort to do 777 performance calculator by the guys behind Q400 performance calculator - Aurasim - but there was not much heard from them lately, apart from being bought out by Airline2Sim (who might be aiming to get the perf calculator out with their planned 777 training course)

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Figured I'd let this run because it's related and many people use it with our products, but some sniping is occurring and we've long held the position that this forum is not to be used to snipe at other people's products. If anyone needs to comment on the company, their quality, or their practices, it should be brought directly to their attention and not aired here.

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Figured I'd let this run because it's related and many people use it with our products, but some sniping is occurring and we've long held the position that this forum is not to be used to snipe at other people's products. If anyone needs to comment on the company, their quality, or their practices, it should be brought directly to their attention and not aired here.

Wouldn't it have been just as easy to remove the offending post?

 

-Jim

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Wouldn't it have been just as easy to remove the offending post?

 

I'm noticing a trend. See point 4 here:

http://www.avsim.com/topic/458101-guidelines-for-participation-in-the-pmdg-forum-please-read/

 

 

 

Addressing the question directly, consider this:

We have the technology to selectively photograph people speeding down a highway, look up their info in various databases, and send them a citation. This method allows for automation to increase the amount of law breakers caught and punished many times over. A single officer on a stretch of road can only pull one person over at a time, and that traffic stop takes time that cannot be used to cite other drivers.

 

Still, in these areas, officers will visibly sit out on the side of a highway. Some claim this is to increase revenue (and in some areas, it certainly can be argued to be - see Emporia, VA), but in general, the very fact that the officer is out there and visibly citing offenders makes a point to passersby that the rules are not only present, but also enforced.

 

Unless someone saw the post prior to it getting removed, then that person would have no knowledge of that principle and may consider doing the same. Making a comment in a thread like this is kinda like those blue lights on the side of the road: it makes a note that someone is watching, and that the rules should be kept in mind.

 

A great deal of the time, there's a reason behind what I'm doing, particularly if I'm making note of the forum rules. Even if it doesn't make sense immediately, the best course of action is to assume there's some point to it, and move on (unless you feel I'm doing something improper, and an AVSIM Staff member should be contacted).

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I'm noticing a trend. See point 4 here:

http://www.avsim.com/topic/458101-guidelines-for-participation-in-the-pmdg-forum-please-read/

 

 

 

Addressing the question directly, consider this:

We have the technology to selectively photograph people speeding down a highway, look up their info in various databases, and send them a citation. This method allows for automation to increase the amount of law breakers caught and punished many times over. A single officer on a stretch of road can only pull one person over at a time, and that traffic stop takes time that cannot be used to cite other drivers.

 

Still, in these areas, officers will visibly sit out on the side of a highway. Some claim this is to increase revenue (and in some areas, it certainly can be argued to be - see Emporia, VA), but in general, the very fact that the officer is out there and visibly citing offenders makes a point to passersby that the rules are not only present, but also enforced.

 

Unless someone saw the post prior to it getting removed, then that person would have no knowledge of that principle and may consider doing the same. Making a comment in a thread like this is kinda like those blue lights on the side of the road: it makes a note that someone is watching, and that the rules should be kept in mind.

 

A great deal of the time, there's a reason behind what I'm doing, particularly if I'm making note of the forum rules. Even if it doesn't make sense immediately, the best course of action is to assume there's some point to it, and move on (unless you feel I'm doing something improper, and an AVSIM Staff member should be contacted).

Well if I offended, I apologize.  I'm not trying to do your job nor am I trying to undermine any established processes PMDG has set up in this forum.  Once again, I misinterpreted your post and for that I yield.  I'll just stay away from these forums altogether and save anyone any grief.

 

-Jim

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I'll just stay away from these forums altogether and save anyone any grief.

 

That wasn't the point, Jim. I think we all know that you don't exist here to question what I'm doing. You've clearly demonstrated otherwise in the past. Recently, though, I've noticed that a lot of your posts have been along those lines, which is why I pointed you to that other post.

 

I would prefer not to lose someone who has been a valuable participant in several discussions here. I would prefer, however, to lose that one, minor, recent aspect.

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Does TOPER let you update a navdata package? Why did they chose to call it TOPER that looks like an infringement of a copyright by naming it so similar to TOPCAT. - David Lee

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I'm always using V-speeds suggested by the FMC at the end of programming it. It has all the info needed: Airport, runway, weights, derates, assumed temps.

 

Just out of curiosity: why do you need a separate application for an info already available? Is the FMC incorrect? Or are there any other circumstances that need to be taken into consideration?

 

Thanks,

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a quick read of the topcat guide will give you your answer ......... ! 

 

eg ... runway condition / obstacle clearance / apu's and / or pack's and / or deice on or off etc. !

 

it's all calculated outside the the FMC in the .........! 

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Just out of curiosity: why do you need a separate application for an info already available? Is the FMC incorrect? Or are there any other circumstances that need to be taken into consideration?

 

The actual answer is pretty involved, but put simply:

The FMC makes some assumptions, and does not take all factors into account.

 

Additionally, the FMC also works forward. TOPCAT (and/or programs like it) essentially works backward. What I mean by this is that you cannot plan with the FMC. If you throw values in there, you're not going to get a full picture of whether those numbers will work or not. TOPCAT provides you with the ability to check the numbers to ensure the performance is okay on the runway, and in the climb. Moreover, TOPCAT offers the ability to take how much runway is available and de-rate/assumed temp your thrust in order to compromise engine life for runway used. In other words, if I have 10000' of runway, but I only need 5000' at full thrust, I can have TOPCAT work backward to find the de-rate/temp that would result in me using all 10000' in an accelerate-stop (engine out before V1) situation, which is essentially your "optimal" value for a de-rate/temp.

 

The question you've asked is essentially:

Why even have a fuel and route planner, when you have the FMC?

 

Sure, you don't need either, because if you throw a route in the FMC, along with a few fuel assumptions, you can get an idea of how much fuel you'll need (see the NGX Tutorials for the fuel planning trick). The issue, though, is that the FMC doesn't have the ability to show you weather along that route, or wind ahead of time (so to see optimal times, you'd have to try an altitude, pull the wind, check the time en route, set another altitude, pull the wind, check the time en route), whereas a route planner usually has some functionality for those considerations.

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To the FMC point:

 

FMC only does balanced field speed calculations. It's essentially the QRH handbook table put into the computer. I don't know if it will even check if the runway is long enough.

TOPCAT is full blown performance calulator working off of FPPM, aka performance manual, does all manners of calculations and takes optimum values of it, we are talking accelerate-stop, accelerate-go versus different lengths, even liftoff point, it takes a look at climb, obstacles.... 

It's a big subject. Pretty much only thing missing there is go-around performance, which can be quite important in some airports.

 

 

Does TOPER let you update a navdata package? Why did they chose to call it TOPER that looks like an infringement of a copyright by naming it so similar to TOPCAT. - David Lee

 

Because TOPCAT means Take Off and Landing Performance Calculation Tool and TOPER goes from Take Off Performance.

 

It's not like they took Chevrolet and named themselves Chervotel

 

TOPCAT doesn't take navdata package either AFAIK

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TOPCAT doesn't take navdata package either AFAIK

 

It does. There are some AIRAC available for Topcat.

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It does. There are some AIRAC available for Topcat.

 

A new AIRAC is available every month from Navigraph. It is available for download just like the various aircraft and PFPX and what ever else is supported by Navigraph. I don't know what good it does since FSX never changes and some addon airports are updated but the updates are usually out of date by the time the update is released.

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michael

 

whilst I'm sure most would not subscribe to navigraph for topcat airac updates alone .... but given a subscription provides you downloads for all your planes plus a few planners etc, updating topcat / pfpx also helps cover those many changes the freeware afcad community & orbx regions provide over time as well as matching the latest charts (eg KFLL / KORD recent changes)

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