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Simmer2050

Beware Control Realism Setting in P3DV3 is no longer like FSX or previous P3D

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Came close to damaging my Saitek X65 cause I always set Max controls realism by default.

 

But I have come to conclusion on my setup that when you go above around 25% on this setting, the controls are no longer realistic.

 

There have been reports of folks fighting rudder in 737 during taxi with not much wind blowing.

 

If you take the time to investigate the realism setting and compare with windy/clear weather, on my system setting max is totally unrealistic controls response to wind effects.

 

Any tips welcome, but  getting similar results at 25% to what I used to see in FSX @100 Realism.

 

Basically I think p3d has issues regards the way controls react to wind as you go above around 25%

 

So before you over stress your expensive joystick rudder like I was, maybe time for a reality check :Shame On You:

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I have noticed that it's extremely hard to correct for the crab on the flare for wind in P3D. It feels like the rudder is useless when fighting a 15 kts crosswind. That's not even a hard crosswind

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I am hoping someone can prove me wrong about this so I can find good reason to hit control realism settings back to 100%.

 

Just went from 25% to 30%, and already starting to stress joystick in a way that will have you needing another joystick soon.

 

Granted X65 is a bit heavy, its the best stick for landing ever, so long as you don't fly fighter jets its Best stick. Definatly recommend it for noobs leering landing.

 

 

Back on topic would appreciate feedback from others maybe this needs support ticket on LM.

 

cheers

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Changed my realism settings to 1/4 way up and I confirm that it feels easier to fly the plane. More realistic in my experience. I also like the new in game calibration. FSUIPC controls are now a thing of the past for me. The only thing I do not have mapped is the Steering tiller because it's not available now on P3D

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thanks for heads up on calibration tool, still in p3dv3.As you can see am still setting up v3, v3.1 still a step too far.

 

Hopefully if more folks can confirm possible issue ,  a good Samaritan will eventually inform LM

 

 

cheers

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Are you setting all the realism sliders to 25% as in the pic?

Capture.jpg

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Are you setting all the realism sliders to 25% as in the pic?

 

Hi,

 

The unwritten rule says (deeply from the time the first high fidelity flight-models appeared in FSX) that those sliders should NEVER be anywhere else but on 100%.

Lowering those sliders will completely screw the flight model and take away realism. Good and well designed flight models are always done for never lowering those values, so any sort of control related "excuse" will at the same time fleece off the most desired realism factor.

I guess very few virtual pilots want an "easy" flight model, most prefer realism and below 100% the realism is simply gone.
 

Potroh

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Are you setting all the realism sliders to 25% as in the pic?

Capture.jpg

Yes here

Hi,

 

The unwritten rule says (deeply from the time the first high fidelity flight-models appeared in FSX) that those sliders should NEVER be anywhere else but on 100%.

Lowering those sliders will completely screw the flight model and take away realism. Good and well designed flight models are always done for never lowering those values, so any sort of control related "excuse" will at the same time fleece off the most desired realism factor.

I guess very few virtual pilots want an "easy" flight model, most prefer realism and below 100% the realism is simply gone.

 

Potroh

That is the argument. In FSX it did feel easy when you set it to anything but 100%. The argument he is making that I have noticed is that the flight model over power's control inputs from the pilot in P3D. For example wind drift is nearly impossible to correct for on low airspeed . I've never flown a plane that reacts like that in my hours in the air with a 15 kts crosswind.

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I'm flying with 100% in V3.0 and haven't noticed any problem

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Hi Folks,

 

Yeah - just purchased my first A2A products - while they are EXCEPTIONALLY well done - I've noticed crosswinds are pretty tough and ground effect almost seems like launch you like a catapult back into the air (I believe A2A does their own things outside of P3D)... I was wondering if there was a way to adjust these effects... For the record - I've made plenty of real world landing in a several different types of SEL GA aircraft for the comparison and the P3D effects seem a bit exaggerated...

 

Regards,
Scott

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My tests were in v3.0.

 

to confirm you need to start by]

 

1. Turn weather off by setting to clear all weather

 

2. Turn Controls all bar to the left

 

3. You need to set those to calibrate your joystick properly , then taxi to get an idea what things should really feel like.

 

4.From there add any weather with wind, realism still at easiest , and things should feel pleasant.

 

5.Now turn control realism to 25% as posted in picture above in this thread.

 

 

6.Now try 100%  

 

 

I have a read a post here on Avsim p3d of a 737 pmdg pilot, fighting rudder on runway cause of 3 knots crosswind. You choose, Your JoyStick or P3D uncalibrated controls realism settings :diablo: pay your money take your choice.

 

I hope they fixed in 3.1, just installed not tested so far.

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That is the argument. In FSX it did feel easy when you set it to anything but 100%. The argument he is making that I have noticed is that the flight model over power's control inputs from the pilot in P3D. For example wind drift is nearly impossible to correct for on low airspeed . I've never flown a plane that reacts like that in my hours in the air with a 15 kts crosswind.

 

The flight model does not and cannot over power the controls.

In the .air file those are tables (curves) that regulate how control surfaces react to density altitude, side forces, etc. Therefore it only works as should at 100%. Any lower values simply effect the well-designed curves as such, that they slowly becomie flat lines towards the lower settings and ALL realism is gone, even if in certain cases it is easier to handle the plane.

 

Control sensitivity and other issues need to be solved on the level of the controls and NOT by artificially ruining the flight-model.

 

Potroh

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@Potroh

 

I thanks for the detailed explanation, but we have folks flying 737 fighting rudder due to very little cross wind, that was all the Information I needed after my suspicions.

 

 

All what you say I think is true for fsx and eelier versions of p3d.  Always used to set max realism in fsx after every new install and boy did I reinstall fsx

 

But on my system 100% in fsx is like 25% in p3d

 

My interpretation of that is, there is an issue in way p3d handing this, or their control realism slider has not been properly CALIBRATED.

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All what you say I think is true for fsx and eelier versions of p3d. Always used to set max realism in fsx after every new install and boy did I reinstall fsx
But on my system 100% in fsx is like 25% in p3d

My interpretation of that is, there is an issue in way p3d handing this, or their control realism slider has not been properly CALIBRATED.

 

That sounds like a control problem, probably specific to the stick/yoke being used. The known control problems in 3.0 could easily be the cause.

Saying this because NOTHING has changed even near the dynamic part, neither in 3.0 nor 3.1

 

Potroh

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@Potroh

 

Regards potential issues with P3d controls realism, I can only speak for what I see on my system and what I have read on quite a number of p3d forums, and consensus is divided.

 

Glad to hear you lucky and find it works just like fsx on your system, there are opinions in this observation too.

 

I am sure its not my controller, that is why I stated earlier in this post , steps for the test. Includes testing JOYSTICK  with ZERO WERTHER   EASIEST CONTROL  REALISM.

 

 

And as I stated before, I slowly stepped up the weather and realism in test s to arrive at conclusion that, Even though I am using same controller as I did in FSX Saitek X65 , controls realism in P3d v3 differs, and if one is not careful could wear joystick out easily due to potentially uncalibrated slider in p3d.

 

Sounds like your yoke and pedals are not in danger since 100% works for you. This thread is more to help the 737 pilot in p3d fighting hard against 3knots crosswind.

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Some GA planes run left as they should on takeoff but then suddenly pull to the the right making it very difficult to keep it on the runway - 100% Realism. At 25% there is an expected pull to the left but at a manageable level. I suspect that the effects of 100% will vary depending on the values set by the designer.

 

IF this value AND this value equal x Then____. If those conditions are not met the aircraft reacts normally.

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Glad to hear you lucky and find it works just like fsx on your system, there are opinions in this observation too.

Sounds like your yoke and pedals are not in danger since 100% works for you. This thread is more to help the 737 pilot in p3d fighting hard against 3knots crosswind.

 

As far as my own setup is concerned, I fly my full 738 cockpit and all controls are calibrated in FSUIPC. The controls related difference compared to previous versions is NIL.

That's why I dared to say that the source of the problem is not to be found around the flight model. Of course I do not deny that by lowering those sliders control related problems may have a benefit for 'some' users, but simply tried to point out that at the same time that "artificial" easiness ruins the flight-model.

 

I do design and fly my own flight-model (which is made for a known and respected company in the FS world), so naturally after any new version comes, I have to deeply and thoroughly check and test if the model's behaviour remained the same. Did all those needed tests and that's why I'm positive there are no changes to the flight-model whatsoever.

Of course the problem may exist but not related to the model. Try it once via FSUIPC's 'direct calibration' and if the problem persists there are further possibilities to try.

 

Potroh

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Might it be because ground rolling friction scalars ( sideways ) has been fixed ?

 

X-Plane has that same problem - too sensitive to even the lighter x-winds, but for rather different reasons pertaining to what I believe is an overdone weathervane effect affecting all aircraft models, but I wouldn't bet LM has done anything to this parameter scalars in the core flight model ?

 

I had 3.0 installed, and used it mostly with the A36 ( default ) and the PMDG 777, with the sliders full right ( 100 % realism ), and I prefer exactly the weather scenarios which present me with the toughest ( always mild in FSX / P3D ) wind and turbulence situations, and honestly never noticed any overdone effect....

 

I never used FSUIPC with P3D.

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I use fsuipc for buttons but p3d for axis. I find the insim axis setup easiest to work with and remember how to setup.

 

You could perhaps say those who don't have this problem are using fsuipc for axis.

 

Is it possible this problem only related to those using p3d axis.

 

In any case, hope this leads to improvement somewhere usefull

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I use fsuipc for buttons but p3d for axis. I find the insim axis setup easiest to work with and remember how to setup.

You could perhaps say those who don't have this problem are using fsuipc for axis.

 

Well yes, perhaps a lot of users not having the problem use the direct FSUIPC calibration.

But mind it, even if the internal axis setup is easier in P3D, FSUIPC offers a way superior and more precise calibration, so if one is a 'serious' simmer, neither the 'ease factor' nor remembering how to do it, would be enough as an excuse...

 

Potroh

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@Potroh

 

Well since scolded me, I am now encouraged to explore fsuipc axis use again.

 

Hope it helps with the realism setting so I can turn it to full again.

 

But really Mr Pete Dawson, yes you, am talking to you, we could do with a fsuipc GUI update

only for the axis setup, to make more user friendly like in sim axis setup.

 

Will give this a try when I got some time, still recovering from p3dv3.1 setup.

 

But  I posted so someone would give reason to turn those realism sliders back to 100%, well you on the spot Potroh cause am gona do that test. P3d is just creating sales for pete dawson with all this half finished modules.

 

Would be interesting if to say, only way to get proper working axis in p3d is via fsuipc,

 

well, I will try it, but I hope youre wrong Potroh, cause litigious types would call p3d a Christmas gift given that you need another tool for proper axis on a flight sim.

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Interesting thread!

 

I do all my flying in the NGX and I've always used FSUIPC exclusively for everything related to my controllers and I always kept the realism sliders at 100% and all this is still true now in version 3.1.

 

I never had any issues in the air but I've always had the same issue in all versions including FSX (and probably also FS9, can't remember anymore) where I almost always have to compensate a bit with the rudder to keep the aircraft going straight on the runway.

 

I can only wish I had any time in the real 737 so I could compare but even without it I have a hard time believing the real aircraft behaves in the same way unless there's a severe crosswind.

 

Edited to add that it would of course be very interesting if we have any real 737 NG drivers in here that also fly the NGX who could help us compare this behaviour.

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@WebMaximus

 

For once since I been simming in a decade finally made the time to turn weather to clear all for zero wind and tunred realism settings to easiest, I discovered that my SitekX65 which I thought was starting to fail was still as smooth as butter. That is with the aforementioned settings as described, zero wind, easiest.

 

From that point on I decided to try various settings on realism slider, eventually settled for 25%.

 

Hope to find time try on fsuipc axis, but as for p3d axis this issue exists for me, and many others too.

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