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Mephic

Default ATC for takeoff and landing only

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Is it possible to use default ATC for landing only with 737 NGX? 

What I mean is: 

 

Imagine a situation when I am flying from Airport A to Airport B. The takeoff is not an issue, default ATC handles it very well. Than I never switch to a frequency that controller provides after takeoff. What I need to understand, considering how bad ATC vectors, would it be able to pick me up somewhere in the middle of flying a STAR during approach and just give landing clearance, without vectoring me 50 nm from the place I am at the moment? 

 

 

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Simple answer: No.  The default ATC is brain dead, totally unaware of terminal procedures.

 

Most people enjoy the online ATC groups like VATSIM, maybe you should investigate that. There is an ATC addon that is much better than the default one, RadarContact, and it has it's merits and limits.  There's not much out there that comes close to real ATC.

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Yes you can! What you need to do is when you get the instruction for a freq change to a center, respond to it, so it won't nag you and cancel your flightplan. Do not though contact the new center until you want to continue ATC, When you want to connect again, contact the center, it will give you initial vectors, back where you left off. Ignore these instructions. It will continue giving you vectors, (Usually 3 to 5 times, maybe more depending on the distance and amount of waypoints are in your FP) only when it tells you to resume normal navigation, respond, then you should be good.

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You misunderstood me. I wanted to know if default atc can only provide clearance for landing after I am already flying a star or if they will start to vector me away from airport even though I'm almost there

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Get Pro ATC X, it makes P3D like an entirely new experience. I use it on every flight. Closest thing to real life ATC, which I have quite a few years  of experience with in very congested airspace. 

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How is the learning curve?

 

I am getting soon 777 probably with fs2crew so I will run out of funds for a while...

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You misunderstood me. I wanted to know if default atc can only provide clearance for landing after I am already flying a star or if they will start to vector me away from airport even though I'm almost there

 

I've tried to do this and, unfortunately, it doesn't work. The best I can get is the approach controller, even if I'm lined up on final. After landing, I do get instructions to contact ground. Needless to say, I don't do this anymore.

 

If you don't feel like talking to real people on Vatsim et al., Pro ATC X is doing a fairly good job of things these days. It still needs work, but the developer seems to be quite active, so it does look promising for future improvement. I also liked VoxATC at one time, but it's not P3d v3 compatible and the developer has gone quiet.

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Well let's see. Guess I need to rethink next purchases as the poor at bothers me more than lack of long hauls. On the other hand 777 is so tempting... well guess I still have some thinking. Thanks

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Is it possible to use default ATC for landing only with 737 NGX?

 

 

Yes, that's what I do. I just use the default ATC for clearance from the gate to the active runway for take off, the contact the arrival tower to get landing clearance and make sure the runways in use are the ones I planned to land on.

 

Between the take off and landing I may listen to the different ATC centers along the way but that's about it. I "self vector" myself the rest of the way using what ever DP and SID I had planned, sometimes even cutting those short.

 

 

Sean Campbell

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Yes, that's what I do. I just use the default ATC for clearance from the gate to the active runway for take off, the contact the arrival tower to get landing clearance and make sure the runways in use are the ones I planned to land on.

 

Do you tune the tower frequency in manually? The few times I've tried this, I've been stuck with the approach controller who never switches me over to tower. Only after landing does it switch me to ground.

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Pro ATC X is doing a fairly good job of things these days. It still needs work, but the developer seems to be quite active, so it does look promising for future improvement. I also liked VoxATC at one time, but it's not P3d v3 compatible and the developer has gone quiet.

Pro Atc X has a long way until it gets similar to the real thing, but I hope it can get there in the future.... Vox Atc is nice too, but development is very slow in my opinion...

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Here's a video of PROATC-X (In FSX-SE) to give you an idea what to expect.

 

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 I often do the same as cmpbellsjc. Tower on the way out and the way in all done as VFR even though I am most often IFR. The rest is done on my own. I like the idea of a good ATC addon, but none are up to task yet as there are simply too many variances in phraseology between countries. 

 

 

 

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I just check to see if both airports are VFR Wx. Usually they are, at least lately. My flights are short though. Anything more than a couple hours is too much.

I usually create an IFR flight plan for Active Sky to follow and give information for my flight phases, then if needed I can activate it in the sim for takeoff or landing clearance. Otherwise, in VFR Wx I just request departure to whichever direction I'm going and do my own thing. You can request a flight following or even VFR flight plan if you want. It's all the same really.

Then before descent I dial ATIS in to the VHF-2 radio and wait for active runways. Once I get that I can put the runway I want and/or expect into the FMC. Such as tonight, I flew into KSNA and figured it'd be 19R (I'm on old NavData in sim and on paper). I have all the charts and plates from 2007 so they match pretty good for the data in the sim. I just planned on 19R and once I knew it was active, I plugged it in and kept on my descent. Worked out better than usual. The only aggravation were the hand-offs. Lots of them in that vicinity. Once I figure I'm close enough to find the airport on the menu, I pick it from the list and ask for landing clearance. Works fine for VFR Wx.

In IFR conditions and using IFR flight plans with default ATC, they work better than most people give them credit. They actually work too well for turboprops and small GAs. They will clear you down at an acceptable rate to approach altitude with little issue. They don't work as well with fast moving jets that don't like to slow on descent, such as the NGX or most swept-back aircraft. The clearance to descent is often too late. It will come close to the FMC path but that doesn't accommodate the need for slowing and leveling off at certain points. I've easily been 2000 feet or more too high before due to ATC. Happens much less often with turboprops or planes that slow on descent when needed. You can wash off a lot of altitude in some aircraft but jets need to level, regardless of spoiler deployment.

With IFR plans, the best method is to tell the controller once you get vectors to an active that you want to chose an approach. Start the descent, then pick a different approach from the list in ATC. Most will give a transition point. Usually it's the IAF. For KSNA, where I flew tonight, ILS 19R can be chosen with POM as an IAF. I think SLI is a choice as well. The issue then becomes, pick your IAF from the ATC menu and ATC clears you direct to that waypoint. That almost always throws off your descent calculations and put you too high. The only way it works okay is if the IAF is downwind a ways and that gives you time to lower your aircraft. The next issue is that your IAF is often too far away. For me to pick POM for 19R coming downwind, it takes me so far out of the way and pretty darn low. Just because you can be at 3500 feet AGL at POM heading towards the next waypoint, doesn't mean you should be. It's like over 20 miles from the airport. You'd want to be picking up the GS at 9.7 miles and 3300 AGL. So being at 3500 AGL twenty or more miles out is stupid.

Now, you can alter or create approaches with Airport Design Editor. I can go in and simply change the POM altitude to a more appropriate altitude and ATC will give me that. Or I can even add a different IAF, such as SAGER or SNAKE and that would be better. Then the issue again only becomes having ATC clear you down without screwing your speeds, et cetra.

 

I'd imagine with some creative editing you could add a STAR or partial STAR to an AFCAD, but no matter what the ATC only lets you head direct to your chosen IAF.  So it's best to put in an IAF with acceptable altitude and accommodate the plan that way.  Not unrealistic but no matter what, you're gonna have issues with descent clearances being timely.

 

I've never liked the add-on ATC packages.  They all sound horrid.

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If you are flying airliners as I do , not being able to fly SIDs and Stars is totally unrealistic. 

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Proatc x that is I guess and until that time I stick to take off clearance and no communication until after land taxi

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If you are flying airliners as I do , not being able to fly SIDs and Stars is totally unrealistic. 

 That being said, you don't need to use any ATC to fly a STAR or a SID.

On that same line of thinking, STAR's and SID's were created to assist in congested airspace, getting traffic in and out of airports within specific confines and routes. If in the sim, the AI isn't flying the correct or any SID or STAR etc then it's already completely unrealistic throwing the whole premise out the window.

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in the sim, the AI isn't flying the correct or any SID or STAR etc

 

It dependens. If you use a program called AI Controller, then you can have the AI aircraft follow SIDs and STARs.

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 That being said, you don't need to use any ATC to fly a STAR or a SID.

On that same line of thinking, STAR's and SID's were created to assist in congested airspace, getting traffic in and out of airports within specific confines and routes. If in the sim, the AI isn't flying the correct or any SID or STAR etc then it's already completely unrealistic throwing the whole premise out the window.

 

I like the idea of flying realistic departures and approaches. I live near Atlanta Airport, and listen to the ATC from there, and when I fly out of Atlanta with my VA, I use the same procedures as I see and hear from the  ATC in the area.  Makes for more immersion for me. I couldn't care less what the AI is doing, frankly. 

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I've found flying VFR is the way to go in default ATC. Tune in ATIS when your doing preflight to get an idea of which runways are active. Once pushed back, request taxi, then ATC assigns you a runway to takeoff, and instructions on how to get there, and takeoff clearance.

 

Once you takeoff, ATC pretty much says seeya later... and you're on your own to fly any sid / route / and star you want, and follow everything the FMC has to offer. Somewhere when I'm at cruise, tune to the ATIS of your destination airport to make sure the runway you planned on landing on is being used. When you get verification, then verify that its programmed into the FMC, or change if necessary.

When you get about 30 - 50 miles from the airport, prompt the ATC window to pull up the nearest airport list, and wait till your airport pops up. When it does, click it and request landing clearance, then land. There is a problem with default ATC and traffic management, so if its a busy airport be prepared to go around... sometimes a few times... or to just ignore the virtual traffic and force a landing. Once down they'll even assign you a gate and give you progressive taxi.

IFR.. I'll have a simbrief plan saved that Im using for Active Sky.. you can load that into FSX too, but I think it truncates off the SID and STAR, so if you're flying a SID ATC doesn't know it and it's trying to put you on a direct course to the first point in your core route. And the STARS forgetaboutit. But sometimes in real life if the traffic is dead, you'd probably forget the star anyway and get instructed to take a shortcut.

 

95% of the time I'll fly VFR (even if its IFR conditions) 5% Ill  fly the VFR just to practice how to manually fly the plane following instructions from ATC.

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Back to his original question. Yes you can. And easily. All you have to do is hit your ~ key when nearing the destination airport.  From the dialog box select Nearest Airports. Scroll through them until you find your destination airport. If you are in a densely populated area with many airports your destination may be deep in the list, or may not appear until you get closer. When it does appear in the list simply click on it, then select full stop landing.  ATC will give you clearance to the runway it considers active.  If that is not the runway you have set up for the approach and you are firm on your runway selection then click the entry to select another runway. It will let you select from the available runways.  ATC will clear you for an approach and will not care about your STAR or approach, but when you are on final it will clear you to land.

 

I have a more complex set of steps I can use to literally file a flight plan while in the air and deep into my flight, including waypoints in a STAR and approach. However I fly GA and the steps I use start with setting up the route in a Reality XP GPS unit, which can then save the plan in FSX format to then load in FSX. I can later use the saved plan in any aircraft, Reality XP equipped or not.  I do not fly PMDG so do not know if the FMS will save a plan in FSX format.  

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I use the default ATC with the flights made at Simbrief.  The approach is the only weak spot.. Departure works great, and

you could fly LNAV/VNAV from 400 AGL all the way out if you want to. ATC won't squawk a bit. But I've never been able to

really get the approach to do the usual real world paths. No matter what you do, it wants to vector you around town to the runway.

Often on a path totally different and farther than the usual real world path. I just live with it. Actually, I really don't care that much,

as I think it's good practice being ordered around, and do whatever they want me to. Whatever they want, I'll do...  lol

I run ATC the whole way, clearance delivery to ground after landing..  The only exception is if I want to fly a FMC path to the runway..

In that case, I don't even bother with ATC, as it can't cope and will have a hissy fit.  :(

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>  I do not fly PMDG so do not know if the FMS will save a plan in FSX format.

edit.. actually, the FMC does not make any "flights" for FSX. You either have to use FSX itself, which is

pretty lame, or an outside program such as Simbrief. Used to use Simroutes for a long time, but it got

unreliable lately, and Simbrief is a lot better. Simbrief can spit out the PMDG co route files also in addition

to the FSX flight.

 

unedit..

 

Sorta, but there is no real way to use SIDS/STARS. But you can make one with other programs such as Simbrief

no problem. So my FSX flights exactly match what's in the FMC, including the SID/STAR. It's just that FSX seems

to have issues letting you fly say a STAR to an ILS approach by the book, unlike the SID which it handles just fine.

Once you get the runway to be used from center at or around TOD, they are steering you around at that point,

or will begin to, and the by the book STAR to the approach goes out the window.

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>  I do not fly PMDG so do not know if the FMS will save a plan in FSX format.

edit.. actually, the FMC does not make any "flights" for FSX. You either have to use FSX itself, which is

pretty lame, or an outside program such as Simbrief. Used to use Simroutes for a long time, but it got

unreliable lately, and Simbrief is a lot better. Simbrief can spit out the PMDG co route files also in addition

to the FSX flight.

 

unedit..

 

Sorta, but there is no real way to use SIDS/STARS. But you can make one with other programs such as Simbrief

no problem. So my FSX flights exactly match what's in the FMC, including the SID/STAR. It's just that FSX seems

to have issues letting you fly say a STAR to an ILS approach by the book, unlike the SID which it handles just fine.

Once you get the runway to be used from center at or around TOD, they are steering you around at that point,

or will begin to, and the by the book STAR to the approach goes out the window.

 

Like I stated earlier. If you have an airplane with a Reality XP GPS gauge, you can set up your flight plan there, then save it as an FSX plan. It is the easiest way I have found to create a plan, and no add on is needed.  You can include all the waypoints along your STAR and Approach. Once saved, you can load it via the FSX flight plan menu for use with any airplane.  You can start with it. Cancel when you are climbing to cruise if you wish, then load it back when you are nearing your destination. You simply select "no" when FSX asks you if you want it to place you at the departure airport and it will then just pick you up where you are.

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Like I stated earlier. If you have an airplane with a Reality XP GPS gauge, you can set up your flight plan there, then save it as an FSX plan. It is the easiest way I have found to create a plan, and no add on is needed.  You can include all the waypoints along your STAR and Approach. Once saved, you can load it via the FSX flight plan menu for use with any airplane.  You can start with it. Cancel when you are climbing to cruise if you wish, then load it back when you are nearing your destination. You simply select "no" when FSX asks you if you want it to place you at the departure airport and it will then just pick you up where you are.

 

But the problem is not the file, it's the way FSX handles the STAR and approach. But I'm talking about using a constant flight

plan, and constant ATC contact. Sure, I could probably ditch ATC before the descent, and just call the airport when I'm on final,

but to me that's a worse compromise than having to use a goofy path to the airport. 

Unless I'm missing something here anyway.. The plan, etc is good.. It's just FSX wants to ignore the by the book path, and do

it's own thing.

One example is the way FSX will route you to 13R at Dallas Love when coming in from the south.. "Houston".

From what I see, most tend to take the by the book STAR which most will take you east of Love Field, and you don't have

to fly halfway to Wichita Falls before getting routed back to the ILS. In FSX, it always takes you waaaayy out west of Love,

even west of DFW, and then makes you dart across the north side of DFW to catch the ILS to 13R. It's silly.. But I live with it...  

I wish I could get it to fly the STAR and ILS by the book.

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