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United to Retire all 747s by 2018

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ETOPS = Engines Turning Or Pilots/Passengers Swimming. Its still a nice piece of mind having 4 engines, even though the modern twin jets are more reliable. Just remember, in a complex machine anything can happen

Marc Cain

 

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  • scandinavian13
    scandinavian13

    Gents,   Firstly, the argument between Airbus v Boeing, and/or 2 engines v 4 engines is so incredibly backward that I don't even know where to start. If you're going to have a discussion about said

  • The A380 has 4 engines aswell. They could have bought a 777 or 787 if they wanted to stick with Boeing but they wanted a 4 engine jet for safety The 777 is successful because it's economical to operat

  • Emirates has so many A380s because they are one of if not the most heavily subsidized airlines.   I did a report on ETOPS when I was in college. At least at that time in every case where a jet airl

In all the arguments over twin-versus-quad, Why not hexajets?

landscape-1426545898-antonov-an-225-fron

 

Sharadh Rajaraman

How the hell this Beastie gets off the ground beats me.

 

Nice pic, thanks for posting.

Rick Almeida

When two-engine jet operations were first proposed for the NAT in the early 80's, then FAA Administrator, J. Lynn Helms said bluntly, the problem lies not the number of engines that are installed, it is the systems that were run by them.  Hydraulic, pressurization, electrical, etc.  Three and four engines meant redundancy in these critical systems.  J. Lynn sent them packing and said "not on my watch".  But airlines like TWA went to work addressing Mr. Helm's concerns over systems and developed the ETOPS protocols we know today.  Mr. Helms agreed with the their work and mitigations and permitted testing with ETOPS of 120 minute, and then 180 ETOPS.

 

ETOPS has been one of the most important safety concepts in aviation.  It has driven not only engine reliability but systems design .  To meet ETOPS 270 at time of first delivery, Boeing performed the necessary engine and systems reliability testing as certification.  Today, these airplanes hardly ever divert and engine failures are very rare (the recent BA event at LAS notwithstanding :) ).

 

There is an economic incentive for the airlines as well.  In the early 2000's, the annual profit generated by a B767 on NAT service was about $600K.  If the airplane diverted on its crossing just one time, that profit was lost and the aircraft operated at loss for the year.  An airline doesn't survive long diverting flights.

 

If you can find it, there is an excellent history of ETOPS available on the web written by J. Angelo DeSantis titled "Engines Turn or Passengers Swim: A Case Study of How ETOPS Improved Safety and Economics in Aviation" that was published in the Journal of Air Law and Commerce.  Sorry, I don't have a link for it.

 

Rich Boll

Wichita, KS

Richard Boll

Wichita, KS

If you can find it, there is an excellent history of ETOPS available on the web written by J. Angelo DeSantis titled "Engines Turn or Passengers Swim: A Case Study of How ETOPS Improved Safety and Economics in Aviation" that was published in the Journal of Air Law and Commerce. Sorry, I don't have a link for it.

Link to article - http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2358232.

Michael Cubine
xVxT6x.jpg

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