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HD MESH V3 Question

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Question for my fellow x planers, as I am new to X Plane 10, and have spent the last few days downloading plugins, airport addons etc, I have just come across HD Mesh V3.

 

My question is, do I need to download all to get world coverage? as they seem to be at different resolutions.

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My question is, do I need to download all to get world coverage? as they seem to be at different resolutions.

 

HD Mesh is split in different regions (and it does not exist for the entire world). The resolution is the same everywhere.

 

You have to download the tiles for the regions you're flying in.

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HD Mesh is split in different regions (and it does not exist for the entire world). The resolution is the same everywhere.

 

You have to download the tiles for the regions you're flying in.

Cheers thanks Mario

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Hi,

 

First: there is NO world coverage  :smile:  (where did you get that from?). Simply by looking at the official map, you will see what is available (and what not).

 

Second: there is not categoric "different" resolution between HD Mesh Scenery v3 tiles, although depending on the region they are usually based on different raw data sources, which can have some effect on the perceived resolution (but at least technically, they are relaitvely identical). There is only a real "resolution"/quality difference between HD Mesh Scenery v3 OR UHD Mesh Scenery v1 (where the latte is also covering far fewer and smaller regions ... for reasons)

 

Third: HD Mesh Scenery v3 and equally UHD Mesh Scenery v1 tiles are completely self contained as none of them brings its own artwork (all the scenery is using the original X-Plane artwork set ... for textures, autogen, roads etc. etc.). Thus it makes technically no difference if you install a single 1x1 degree, or a 10x10 degree folder (based on one of the ZIP downloads), or everything at once. I even encourage users (hey, this is even in the instructions under Warnings / Requirements ... does anyone care to read that :wink: ) to start with one ZIP at first, try it, and only continue with other regions if they like what they see and are SURE it works.

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First: there is NO world coverage :smile: (where did you get that from?).

I have no idea lol

 

Many thanks for your info, and will read the web page again. Lot to learn. You are quite right, one at a time would be the way to go. After all, there is no rush. Once again, thank you.

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Julian - I'd recommend trying the HD Mesh V3, with the photoscenery available via Simheaven (the photo stuff is on a French site I believe, but it's linked from Simheaven), for a specific area to begin with. 

 

Eg.... You can get the mesh for the UK and also the photscenery for the UK in a reasonably sized set of downloads.   That'll give you a good idea.   IMHO the HD Mesh needs photoscenery (or at least improved textures) to really get the best from it.     HD Mesh V3 and the photoscenery for the UK is fantastic - beats any of the payware content of this nature for the UK in FSX.......... and (thanks to people like Alpilot), it's free!  :smile:

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JYW:

  • Simheaven is not offering photoscenery for more than a year now? Because of possible legal reasons (its still not clear, if its really OK to openly distribute scenery based on Bing/Google imagery etc.) and because of the extreme download volume ...
  • You CAN NOT COMBINE HD Mesh Scenery v3 (or UHD Mesh Scenery v1) with any other scenery on the fly! This is - possibly - a myth. X-Plane only and always allows ONE active mesh scenery at the same time. And as all the photosceneries you name are mesh sceneries too .... you either have one or the other active / visible (and if both installed, then the priority in scenery_packs.ini decides) at the same time in the same location. No mixing / merging / overlaying at runtime!

Still:

  • You can get photoscenery from zonephoto.x-plane.fr which is - as far as I know - based on default Global Scenery. And it is also bringing its own mesh (so, no magical mixing with HD Mesh Scenery v3 is happening)
  • You can derive your own photoscenery based(!) on for example HD Mesh Scenery v3 by using a tool like g2xpl ... Which re-tailors the mesh and replaces default textures with phototexture (from Google or Bing ... or what ever else). But it also gives you a new mesh based in many parts on the input HD Mesh Scenery v3 (oh, and before you think you might then freely distribute that ... you better read the very short license terms on my website and ask)
  • You can generate an entirely new photoscenery mesh on you own with Ortho4XP (but you need much more knowledge here) ... and still you get a new mesh, which is on its own.

Just as a technical side-note: indeed, there is one way to have phototextures ON an existing mesh (yes, on HD Mesh Scenery v3 too). Its called overlay texturing. But this technique is not meant to be used at large scale (entire scenery tiles) because of its horrendous performance overhead. Instead it is meant to be used for small scale sceneries like airports. And this is the area where it is also used a lot (and nciely) ... as it allows the airport to overlay its local phototextures independently of the mesh placed below it.

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but you need much more knowledge here

I think Ortho4XP is much easier to use than g2xpl... You basically just need to know the tile coordinates, download the height data and hit the buttons, one after another. :D

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JYW:

  • Simheaven is not offering photoscenery for more than a year now? Because of possible legal reasons (its still not clear, if its really OK to openly distribute scenery based on Bing/Google imagery etc.) and because of the extreme download volume ...
  • You CAN NOT COMBINE HD Mesh Scenery v3 (or UHD Mesh Scenery v1) with any other scenery on the fly! This is - possibly - a myth. X-Plane only and always allows ONE active mesh scenery at the same time. And as all the photosceneries you name are mesh sceneries too .... you either have one or the other active / visible (and if both installed, then the priority in scenery_packs.ini decides) at the same time in the same location. No mixing / merging / overlaying at runtime

 

Thanks for the clarifications.   Clearly in my case, the mesh from the Photoscenery (which I did mention is linked on Simheaven, but hosted on another site - zonephoto.x-plane.fr) will have been displaying for the UK - and not your HD Mesh.    I (incorrectly) thought I was seeing both.

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I think Ortho4XP is much easier to use than g2xpl... You basically just need to know the tile coordinates, download the height data and hit the buttons, one after another. :D

 

Yes but be prepared for some extra HD space... especially with ZL above 16...

I prefer 17 and up testing with it now downloaded my country and great performance and loading with w2xp_Europe and w2xp_Europe_net for roads etc..

Now to figure out how to combine zoom levels on the same tile?

 

cheers

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ulian - I'd recommend trying the HD Mesh V3, with the photoscenery available via Simheaven (the photo stuff is on a French site I believe, but it's linked from Simheaven), for a specific area to begin with.

Thank you for your comments Bill. All helps in the learning process.

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Alpilot, So you're saying orthophoto sceneries created using apps liek g2xpl or Ortho4xp are technically photoscenery with mesh built-in?

 

Because at the moment I have made my own custom orthosceneries using those 2 apps and also using HD Mesh v3 at the same time. All this time I thought that the photoscenery can be layered or stack on top of the HD Mesh v3. So just reading by what you said, you can only use one or another. 

 

What would happen if both the HD Mesh V3 and photoscenery were used in your scenery.ini file? Would it the photoscenery take priorirty over the HD Mesh v3?

 

I guess I need to go back to my custom scenery folder and delete all my custom ortho photoscenery, as they take up a lot of space, and the quality between regions is very inconsistent. I'd like to use HD Mesh v3 solely.

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What would happen if both the HD Mesh V3 and photoscenery were used in your scenery.ini file? Would it the photoscenery take priorirty over the HD Mesh v3?

I just simply re-quote myself (or you could have simply re-read it above :wink: ):

 

 

.... you either have one or the other active / visible (and if both installed, then the priority in scenery_packs.ini decides) at the same time in the same location. No mixing / merging / overlaying at runtime!

 

So, not even the priority is happening by magic, but simply by the scenery_packs.ini!

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Guess I'll just stick to purely using HD Mesh v3 with default textures then. 

 

So ALL photoscenery, whether custom made or bought such as Real Scenery Oahu includes it's own mesh if I'm not mistaken?

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Guess I'll just stick to purely using HD Mesh v3 with default textures then.

 

That's the way to go for a modern, lean and consistent experience.

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So ALL photoscenery, whether custom made or bought such as Real Scenery Oahu includes it's own mesh if I'm not mistaken?

Yes ... for every large scale scenery (countries / states ... or simply, anything that would cover at least a 1x1 degree area), you can expect it to be that way.

 

Even though there is also a phototexture-overlay function in X-Plane ... no sane developer would use it for large scale scenery, because for larger areas, that would completely tank performance. This phototexture-overlay function is only meant for small area scenery, like an airport, or maybe a city ... because at that scale, it has no serious performance hit, but frees the developer from the need to create a phototextured mesh for the entire 1x1 area (and above all, this way his large scale scenery works with all other mesh products placed below it ... because it uses phototexture-overlay tech).

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tonywob, thanks for the link. I have a question after reading that, the latest w2xplane downloads on simheaven's website, those will provide your scenery with different types of objects and offer more variety depending on the region for X-Plane, while the HD/UHD mesh is basically higher resolution mesh that will give the land/water more detail, such as coastlines and also include landclass data as well?

 

Because I ran a test of New York City in X-Plane 10.50 beta 5 to see the new autogen for buildings, I set the objectst to extreme, using HD Mesh v3, and a custom orthophotoscenery for that area that I made using ortho4xp, and I saw a lot of buildings, objects. So, you're saying all those autogen objects are coming from that orthoscenery that I made? Because from what alpilot is saying is that both HD mesh and orthophotoscenery have their own mesh, and only one will be chosen and utilized at any given moment. Whether which one gets loaded depends on which order they are listen in your scenery ini file. And since all of the HD Mesh v3/UHD Mesh files are last in that list due to the name "zzz_____" It will load my orthophotoscenery instead.

 

Does HD/UHD Mesh from alpilot include landclass and OSM data? If I use the default vanilla scenery will I also get the same exact roads, buildings objects in the same area or are they different?

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Firstly HD and UHD mesh are simply upgraded versions of the default scenery in that they give much more definition and accurate zones (or landclass if you prefer). These sceneries do use some information from OSM, but they also use other information as well to give decent coverage as OSM isn't very consistent with its coverage. Alpilotx's sceneries do not add new artwork or building types, they simply make better use of the ones that are already in X-Plane. The buildings are all autogenerated within zones, so you won't see your house, but you will see the general shape of your town. As already explained it's a complete scenery, mesh and objects and is fantastic (I use it for Alaska and New Zealand and the detail is great).

 

World2XPlane doesn't generate a new mesh, but it will change the buildings, roads and forests on an existing mesh (This is called an overlay scenery). It will place buildings exactly where the real ones are in real life, and forests as they are in real-life as long as the data is good (I also have something called pro sceneries which use government data for very accurate data). It won't look too good mixed with HD Mesh in some places as the textures don't match, but some areas look very nice (UHD Norway and Norway Pro are very nice together). Generally, people use these with photoscenery to give very accurate objects and forests.

 

Both World2XPlane and HD Mesh have roads from the same data source which is OSM, World2XPlane is generally more up-to-date because it was generated more recently, but HD Mesh has nicer and smoother roads which are more optimised (the OSM data has been sanitised), however they are less accurate as they hug the landscape less accurately, but the difference is negligible and World2XPlane has been blamed for lots of recent crashes in X-Plane 10.50 recently because it simply imports the roads straight in without sanitising them whilst HD mesh is much cleaner and more "compressed' so it works on a more global level.

 

For real accuracy, using just photoscenery and W2XP together (this must be higher in priority) will give you very realistic and accurate scenery, but requires a lot of disk space. On the other hand, HD/UHD mesh on its own will give you consistent scenery but less accurate and photorealistic (but better on system resources and disk space).

 

It really depends on where and how high you generally fly.

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Thanks tony for explaining it for me. I guess it's a matter of what I prefer. Either using w2xplane with photoscenery, or going the more less taxing on the system but simple route of HD/UHD Mesh.

 

So you're saying to choose one or the other, but it's not recommended to use w2xplane with HD/UHD Mesh?

 

I guess for flying high with tubeliners = photoscenery/w2xplane, extended dsf. and for GA and low flying, extended dsf off with HD/UHD Mesh.

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Yes, it really depends on what you and where you want to fly. HD Mesh is great for flying fast and high, UHD/Ortho and World2XPlane is great when flying low and you want the extra detail (e.g for helicopters).

 

I wouldn't recommend both UHD Mesh and World2XPlane together unless you have a good system to support it.

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Well, on the HD mesh Scenery v3 page, there is a quite extensive list of improvements in brings (compared to default scenery):

And it combines quite a few different data sources to get the result you see. Most importantly detailed landclass data (depending on the worlds region, I use different land use / land cover data sources to achieve this) ... which can give you relatively accurate forest positions too (of course, not as precise as with w2xp scenery where you have good OSM source data), as i use - in the meantime - very high resolution satellite measured forest data.

 

To give you a "feeling" about how many different data sources I mix (to get the special sauce), I also have an official data sources acknowledgment list on my page:

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