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Faelandaea Dravin

Touch and Go ... What amd I doing wrong?

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Okay, so following the documentation I can take off and successfully do a single touch and go.  Works flawlessly, right down to the FO cleaning flaps during the touchdown, etc.

 

But ... even repeating the same procedures, she suddenly stops responding to gear and flaps.  She will still do the checklists, and respond to any other commands I have to give.  She'll start the APU if I ask her to, and make changes in the MCP for reference, but she will not respond to "Gear Down" or "Flaps 20".  She does not say anything (like she would if i were making an error).  The mode on the FS2Crew is indeed "Landing Checklist", which is where it should be after completing the approach checklist.

 

So I did a few more touch and goes, all working except for approach flaps and gear.  I handled those myself.  Then i decided to shoot an ILS approach.  I announced the next landing to be Full Stop - she replied.  She complied with all other checklists, etc.  So I start the approach and call Flaps 15.  She did it.  YAY!!!!!  So i figured problem solved.  I slow to speed schedule and call Gear Down ... nothing.  I call Flaps 20 .... nothing.  Again, for Flaps 20 and Gear Down I had to handle it myself.

 

So ... what am I doing wrong?  I made the following cheat sheet to keep my circuit procedures on a single page on one of my upper monitors.  Am I missing something?  I wouldnt think I am since I did the first pattern successfully and on the first pattern she DID do gear down and Flaps 20/25.

 

Here is my cheat sheet ... items I call verbally are in red.  Actions I must do on my own are in blue.

 

 

NOTE: Unlike other FS2Crew versions – no need to mess with approach brief for circuits.

Ensure FMC is completed in full.

  • Takeoffs will be FLAPS 20 for these operations.
  • Before takeoff: THIS WILL BE A TOUCH AND GO. This should put FS2Crew into Touch and Go mode.
  • Vref+15 to 25 to pattern altitude
  • Retract only to Flaps 5. This should trigger FO after takeoff flow
  • Turn Crosswind then run After Takeoff Checklist
  • Turn Downwind then run Descent Checklist
  • @Threshold, run the Approach Checklist, then FLAPS 20, GEAR DOWN
  • Turn to Base leg then LANDING FLAPS 25 then LANDING CHECKLIST
If approach missed: GO AROUND, wait for FO to call positive rate, GEAR UP
 
When done, speak THIS WILL BE A FULL STOP during the circuit to trigger full stop procedures.

 

So basically once I start the second lap in the pattern, I FS2Crew works on all of the above except for FLAPS 20/25 and GEAR DOWN.

 

I checked the manual to see if I missed a step to put into my cheat sheet.  I also tried announcing at various stages "This will be a touch and go", to which she acknowledged but nothing made a difference.

 

So ... I know FS2Crew does work perfectly on patterns or a lot of people would be posting.  No one else has posted this issue, so my question is, "Whisky Tango Foxtrot am I doing wrong?"

 

Thanks

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So I start the approach and call Flaps 15.  She did it.  YAY!!!!!  So i figured problem solved.  I slow to speed schedule and call Gear Down ... nothing.  I call Flaps 20 .... nothing.  Again, for Flaps 20 and Gear Down I had to handle it myself.

 

 

Did you see those phrases in the Green Bar to ensure the system 'detected' them'?

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Sorry I had to work today.  Just got home.

 

Yep!  The voice software does acknowledge my phrases exactly as I say them - even on the ones the F/O isn't reacting to.

 

I am going to do more pattern work tonight or tomorrow and see if I can duplicate the issue again, but, yes, Voice bar did display my commands as I stated them properly ("Gear Down", "Flaps 15", etc.).  Also, I noticed I did not mention this in my OP, but I also assured that Hard Mute was off for the commands, also.  So ... no mute, and FS2Crew was acknowleding my commands ... just no action was being taken after the first circuit.

 

The one thing I could think of that would cause this is maybe the FO somehow not understanding that the flight was still continuing?  Random glitch after the second takeoff?  

 

Just a thought ... is there a proper "point" in the procedure to state "This will be a touch and go"?  And do i need to state it during each and every circuit?  if so, is there a preferred time to make the statement?  The manual says I need to state this to put her into "Touch and Go" mode, but does it STAY that way?

 

EDIT:  I can't edit the title of the thread.  Can someone please change "amd" to "am"?  ROFL.  That typo is like a steering wheel under me kilt!  It's "driving" me nuts!

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Still not sure.

 

Can anyone else reproduce this?

 

Were you below the max flap extension speed?


 

 


is there a proper "point" in the procedure to state "This will be a touch and go"?

 

Say it before takeoff.

 

You don't need to say it for every subsequent circuit.

 

Cheers,

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EDIT - deleted this post. I posted the wrong video in the wrong aircraft. oops. i am about to record a video of the RIGHT aircraft.

 

6:30 in the morning, moments after crawling out of bed, is not the wisest time to be flying an aircraft. LOL.

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Hi,

 

Just to clear up a doubt, which Fs2crew/aircraft are you having an issue with, T7 or NGX?

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Just to clear up a doubt, which Fs2crew/aircraft are you having an issue with, T7 or NGX?

 

the ngx according to the post above yours

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the ngx according to the post above yours

 

The video is of the NGX but the original post seems to talk about the T7 (flaps 20 which doesn't exist in the B737) and is in the B777 forum, hence the confusion.

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probably  why he  is  having  issues :) trying  to combine  both  the 777 and  the ngx into one

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Bloody seven he**s .... sorry I linked the wrong video.  The NGX works just fine.  It's the 777, so the thread is on the right track but my brain at 6:30 in the morning is not.

 

I'll record the RIGHT video this time and link it.

 

By the way, "Good morning, folks"  LOL

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Wait, you don't that, do you? You don't call flaps 20 in the NGX!?  :Tounge:


Ok, I'm quite busy flying another aircraft, but I will try to find a bit of time to some pattern with the T7 to check if I have the same issue.

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Wait, you don't that, do you? You don't call flaps 20 in the NGX!?  :Tounge:

Ok, I'm quite busy flying another aircraft, but I will try to find a bit of time to some pattern with the T7 to check if I have the same issue.

 

I didn't, actually.  I woke up, and was like "Okay time to resolve my issue with pattern work in the T7" ... I get my tea, boot up the PC, and sit down.  I select "PMDG" in the free flight and blindly just selected the first logo that had my fictional custom livery ... didn't even pay attention to the fact that it was the 737.  You'd think I'd have caught it when I loaded in, but I just sipped my tea and waited the requisite 3-4 minutes for the scenery to load (gotta love photo scenery and the load times).  

 

So now I am browsing news articles, sipping me tea, and the A/C loads in ... the 737 ... but I just subconsciously click "Broadcast" in OBS and start flying.

 

I do the first pattern ... all works.  Cool.  I do the second pattern ... all works.  Wait, maybe the issue fixed itself?  On the THIRD pattern ... it suddenly kicks in ... wait ... isn't my F/O supposed to be FEMALE?  And ... wait that's the T7 ... wait ... the T7 ... oh crap ... Full stop ... let's wake up first THEN try this.  ROFL.

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:LMAO: Exactly me before my first coffee in the morning!

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I'm just so bloody glad I have never done that when flying in real life.  I can picture it now ... Steel City Aviation ... "Hi, guys, I'm here for the Cessna 172" ... walk out and preflight and take off ... get a radio call, "Uh ... why did you take off in the Cessna 150?  Didn't you want the 172?" ... 

 

Anyway, I am streaming on twitch right now - https://www.twitch.tv/faelandaea - once the video processes I'll get it over to YouTube but for now if anyone is bored (and still amused) feel free to see what I am doing wrong there.  LOL.

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Ok, feel ready for your chek ride? I'm watching!

 

Just a couple of advise while I'm watching:

_ TO rating seems a bit high for the weight you entered in the FMC. If you derate your takeoff it will be easier to control the intial climb speed and rate.

_ When retracting or deploying the flaps, you don't need to call for flaps 15. Just go directly from flaps 20 to flaps 5 and from flaps 5 to flaps 20. During approach, flaps 15 is usually used when you need a lower approach before lower the ldg gear, otherwise you can skip it.

 

Except from one time where you had to repeat flaps 20 twice, it seems that everything worked flawless?

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Well ... an update.  The flying was messy.  it was so messy I was embarrassed to even be streaming ... but even with the messy speeds, messy altitudes, and messy turns, I was able to replicate the issue again in the T7.  Everything beautiful until it came time for the second gear down.  I saw I had one viewer besides myself ... so whichever one of you watched, I am anxious to see where I went wrong ... besides flying like I had too many drinks.

 

Edit:  Romain that was you watching!  I so don;t want my score, please ROFL.  But yeah did you see anything that might hint as to where FS2Crew is losing track?

 

 

Ok, feel ready for your chek ride? I'm watching!

 

Just a couple of advise while I'm watching:

_ TO rating seems a bit high for the weight you entered in the FMC. If you derate your takeoff it will be easier to control the intial climb speed and rate.

_ When retracting or deploying the flaps, you don't need to call for flaps 15. Just go directly from flaps 20 to flaps 5 and from flaps 5 to flaps 20. During approach, flaps 15 is usually used when you need a lower approach before lower the ldg gear, otherwise you can skip it.

 

Except from one time where you had to repeat flaps 20 twice, it seems that everything worked flawless?

 

 

It was flawless on the first run, but did you notice on the second pattern that she refused to gear down?  And she reacted to flaps 15, but would not go beyond that.  I was even down to just above VREF, well below speed, and she would not go Flaps 20 at all. 

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But yeah did you see anything that might hint as to where FS2Crew is losing track?

 

I'm not sure what is wrong there. I could hear your voice in the video. The only thing I saw was that you called once gear down and got nothing. Then you selected hard mute, then deselected it called again gear down and it worked. you then call flaps 20 and it worked as well.

 

Is it or have I misse something?

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Ah ... yeah ... okay so on the replay:  https://www.twitch.tv/faelandaea/v/79403284  ... at 00:25:00 in the video is my second landing.  I am not on hard mute.  

  1. At 00:25:20 I call gear down.  No action.
  2. I double checked to make sure I am not on Hard Mute.  I'm not.
  3. At 00:25:30 I call Gear Down a second time.  Speed is well under gear speed so that should not have been an issue.
  4. At 00:25:40 I try one last time.  In the green strip, it IS displaying "Gear Down", but the aircraft is taking no action.  The gear is still up.
  5. I figured maybe the FO is designed to not do gear before flaps?  So at 00:25:43 I call Flaps 20.  Nada.
  6. At 00:25:45 I try "Flaps 25" ... still no reaction.  Speeds are checked.
  7. At 00:25:55 I make a final attempt at Gear Down.
  8. Figuring maybe the landing phase had been cleared, at 00:25:57 I state This Will Be a Touch and Go.  She acknowledges.  So I call gear Down again.  Nothing.
  9. At 00:26:08 I finally gave up on gear and put the gear down manually.
  10. At 00:26:16 I call "Flaps 15".  She complies.  
  11. At 00:26:35 I call Flaps 20 ... figured she did Flaps 15, she'll work now.  Nope.  No joy.
  12. At 00:26:46, I announce she is still having issues and I manually go to Flaps 20.  Then i call for flaps 25.  Nothing.  I call again.  Nothing.
  13. At 00:27:17 I manually set flaps 25.
  14. The rest of the landing goes without incident, except that she thought "Autobrake" meant "Heading" and she set my heading bug LOL.

 

POST EDIT:  My first video had mic issues.  I re-recorded and changed this post to reflect the final video.

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At first sight, I don't see anything wrong, but I will test is on my system and see if I can reproduce it.

Maybe flying will give me some idea. There are some things that we do with thinking about it after some time.

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I forgot to add ... on the flaps advice and de-rating, thyanks.  I always welcome advice for better flying (the entire point as to why I am starting to practice hand flying instead of using the autopilot).

 

The autopilot I think spoils a lot of flight simulation enthusiasts.  And while in real life I can hand fly a GA aircraft almost perfectly, there's not a setting in the world for FSX that can make it as easy to hand fly an airliner.  I recently signed up for KLM Virtual, and would like to start hand flying some of the short hops in the 737 that are only around n hour to do, and as for the T7, I want to do like real world pilots do and hand fly the departure and approaches (autopilot/autoland is almost never used for real world operations unless forced by necessity by environmental conditions).


At first sight, I don't see anything wrong, but I will test is on my system and see if I can reproduce it.

Maybe flying will give me some idea. There are some things that we do with thinking about it after some time.

 

Okay, so on repeating patterns I am supposed to control flaps and gear?  Is that what I am doing wrong is expecting the first officer to do it?  Is the PF supposed to handle this in circuit/touch-and-go operations?  I just want to be sure I am doing this correctly.

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Okay ... on this one I fixed the mic.  You can hear my voice now.  Maybe this will make it more clear ... https://www.twitch.tv/faelandaea/v/79403284  Start at 25 minutes in and the issue was recreated yet again.  

 

On a GOOD note I took to heart your advice on derates ... it did help me maintain speeds and control of the pattern a LOT better.  However at 25 minutes is where the issues start ... second pattern ... yet again she won't touch the gear and will not do anything past flaps 15.

 

I also just realized RAAS can;t be heard on the stream, so I'll check into that and see if it has any manual settings to be fed to Voicemeeter.

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Okay, so on repeating patterns I am supposed to control flaps and gear?  Is that what I am doing wrong is expecting the first officer to do it?  Is the PF supposed to handle this in circuit/touch-and-go operations?  I just want to be sure I am doing this correctly.

 

No, I meant, I didn't see you doing anything wrong with Fs2crew. 
I did try also and was able to reproduce your issue without finding a solution in the sim.
I tried with all the possible combination with takeoff flaps 15 and 20 and landing flaps 25 and 30 without or without calling flaps 15 during the approach (I had a doubt this one could create an issue as the described procedure for the touch and go in fs2crew is to skip flaps 20) and got the same results each times for the second touch and go:  I couldn't get the gear down and neither flaps 20, 25 or 30.
Strangely, the call flaps  15 still works...
 
I also tested with and without preflight events and with/without departure brief and approach brief just in case.
 
 
There may be something wrong after the first touch and go in the code. The FO stops responding to the landing gear command and any flaps setting beyond flaps 15. 
 
 
Bryan, could you have a look at the code?

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YAY!!!!!  So I am NOT losing what's left of my decrepit mind!!!!   YES!

 

I am actually surprised then that no one else has reported this if it is an issue that can be reproduced.  I take it not many people practice circuits in their PMDG/FS2Crew aircraft?  ;)  As for me, I actually plan to dedicate around 1-2 hours per day for hand flying practice so I can start to improve as a simulator pilot.  I know it's odd to say, but it is actually harder to hand fly in FSX than it is to hand fly in real life O.o  At least that's the way it feels to me even when flying in-game Cessnas.

 

Sir Romain, thank you SO much for checking this out and verifying it's not just me doing something wrong.  I appreciate your time so much.

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We're still talking about NGX Reboot, right?  :Tounge:

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