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Rockliffe

Why not i7 4790k

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I'm just about to rebuild my rig and have thought very hard about the i7 4790K, as opposed to the Skylake 6700, mainly because every comparison and benchmark charts I've seen, the 4790k out performs the Skylake quite a lot. But loads of the guys on here all rave about the Skylake. I'm wondering if it is a question of the emperor's clothes or if in fact the 6700 is a better performing chip?

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In evry benchmark a have run the 6700k outpeform the Haswell 4770k and 4790k.

I simply try to get out the Max from each system

 

tested SB, Ivy,Haswell,Skylake , but it up to you buy what you feel is best .

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In evry benchmark a have run the 6700k outpeform the Haswell 4770k and 4790k.

I simply try to get out the Max from each system

 

tested SB, Ivy,Haswell,Skylake , but it up to you buy what you feel is best .

 

Hmm, interesting. Well, it seems the 6700 is great for overclocking. Can you or anyone recommend a good cooler for the 6700? rather stick with air rather than liquid, due to cost. Will I be able to get to about 4.6oc on air do you think? 

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Noctua for air , Martin have a lot info in treads herre.

Keep in mind that a Overclocked 6700k with HT on or Off run cooler than a Haswell no voltage regulators in the chip.

4.6ghz approx 85% of the chips do with less then 1.4v

The voltage seems high but it generate less heat than a Haswell at 1,35v

Mems go for 2x8 3200mhz c14-15 cheap and very good.

 

Run a RealBench stress test with a good 6700k it show the clock potential

Cooling custom water

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yqpclmhxelpjly3/RealB%205.0-15min1.424v.png?dl=0

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Hmm, interesting. Well, it seems the 6700 is great for overclocking. Can you or anyone recommend a good cooler for the 6700? rather stick with air rather than liquid, due to cost. Will I be able to get to about 4.6oc on air do you think? 

Yes, you can get to 4.6 on air easily as long as you have a good aftermarket cooler. The stock Intel coolers can do it but the chips get pretty hot. I have a 4790k and it performs very well with FSX and P3D. The improvement that the 6700 offers is probably pretty negligible. It's not like the old days when switching from a single core to a dual core improved performance by several factors. If you can afford it, 6700. If you cannot, 4790k. Moving to PCIe storage would likely offer a more noticeable improvement. 

 

I would recommend one of the Corsair water coolers. I went from a Thermaltake Hyper 212+ air cooler to a Corsair H110i GT and saw temps drop about 5C at idle and 9C under load. 

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Hmm, interesting. Well, it seems the 6700 is great for overclocking. Can you or anyone recommend a good cooler for the 6700? rather stick with air rather than liquid, due to cost. Will I be able to get to about 4.6oc on air do you think?

 

 

Hi Howard. As you may have seen on the forum, I personally, don't advocate AIO water coolers.

 

The manufacturers don't release any failure data, so we don't know for sure, but we can assume that leaks are rare. However... air coolers can't leak, have no pump to fail or become noisy and pretty much have an unlimited lifespan. Thus, no hassle trying to convince an AIO manufacturer to compensate you for water damaged components.

 

Further more, in terms of temps, the gap between the best AIO cooler and the best air cooler is minimal, in many reviews a mere 4 degrees. In fact many AIO coolers like the Kraken X61 cheat by including super noisy high RPM fans. For me, there is no logical reason to adopt an AIO cooler.

 

The best air cooler on the planet, is undoubtedly the Noctua NH-D15. It's big, very big, but that's why it's so efficient, it's about surface area.

 

The version I would recommend is the NH-D15S. The "S" variant is the high compatibility version. It has plenty of room for reasonable height RAM and is off set slightly to allow more room between the heat sink and upper most PCIe slot.

 

It has only one 150 mm centrally mounted fan, but don't let that deter you. The difference between one fan and two is between one and two degrees, so insignificant. Noctua do provide extra fan clips if you're adamant you want another fan.

 

Also, don't let anyone tell you the weight of the cooler is an issue... it's not! The Noctua Secu-Firm 2 mounting system is superb! It includes a spring retention system that acts like a set of shock absorbers. In fact, dynamic load is lower than Intel's recommended max for Skylake. Static load is higher by design, in order to improve cooling, but not an issue. The only example of damage, relates to misguided individuals who have shipped their PC's half way across a continent with cooler still attached. Madness when we consider what couriers do with our parcels.

 

In terms of overclocking, the NH-D15S has you covered. It does depend on the silicone lottery of course, but as an example, my 6700K is overclocked to 4.6 GHz, in a RealBench stress test it hits around 74 degrees max. In games and the sim, much lower. the PWM fan usually runs at low RPM. I remain at 4.6GHz, but the cooler could quite conceivably handle a higher overclock.

 

Review here. D15 against five AIO coolers...

 

http://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nh-d15-versus-closed-loop-liquid-coolers/1

 

 

We tested these high end coolers with a 4790K running at 4.5Ghz at 1.23 volts and in my opinion it's a tie between the NH-D15 and Kraken X61. When it comes to actual cooling performance, you have to consider both heat and noise. The NZXT Kraken X61 delivered the lowest temperature under full load but the fans become extremely loud at max speed. It's very hard to ignore the noise from the Kraken X61 once the fans run at full speed and it can distract you from whatever you are doing.

Then we have the NH-D15 that wins by being the quietest cooler in our test but is also 4 Celsius warmer than the Kraken X61. When it comes to price, the NH-D15 sells for $99 and the Kraken for $139 so the NH-D15 beats it by being cheaper and quieter.

 

One final point, when others talk of an AIO being 4 degrees cooler, or 9 degrees cooler, we should ask ourselves what that equates to in terms of frame rate in the sim or games. If we do the maths, it's negligible. Maybe 100 MHz or 200 MHz greater overclock. So at 30 FPS less than two frames per second. 

 

 

 

Others will disagree, that's fine, this is just my opinion, from my perspective. Up to you to decide if my prospective is the right one or wrong one. :smile: I have no issue with those that wish to accept the admittedly small risk or leaks and opt for an AIO. Indeed, some prefer them aesthetically.

 

 

 

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Hi Howard. As you may have seen on the forum, I personally, don't advocate AIO water coolers.

 

The manufacturers don't release any failure data, so we don't know for sure, but we can assume that leaks are rare. However... air coolers can't leak, have no pump to fail or become noisy and pretty much have an unlimited lifespan. Thus, no hassle trying to convince an AIO manufacturer to compensate you for water damaged components.

 

Further more, in terms of temps, the gap between the best AIO cooler and the best air cooler is minimal, in many reviews a mere 4 degrees. In fact many AIO coolers like the Kraken X61 cheat by including super noisy high RPM fans. For me, there is no logical reason to adopt an AIO cooler.

 

The best air cooler on the planet, is undoubtedly the Noctua NH-D15. It's big, very big, but that's why it's so efficient, it's about surface area.

 

The version I would recommend is the NH-D15S. The "S" variant is the high compatibility version. It has plenty of room for reasonable height RAM and is off set slightly to allow more room between the heat sink and upper most PCIe slot.

 

It has only one 150 mm centrally mounted fan, but don't let that deter you. The difference between one fan and two is between one and two degrees, so insignificant. Noctua do provide extra fan clips if you're adamant you want another fan.

 

Also, don't let anyone tell you the weight of the cooler is an issue... it's not! The Noctua Secu-Firm 2 mounting system is superb! It includes a spring retention system that acts like a set of shock absorbers. In fact, dynamic load is lower than Intel's recommended max for Skylake. Static load is higher by design, in order to improve cooling, but not an issue. The only example of damage, relates to misguided individuals who have shipped their PC's half way across a continent with cooler still attached. Madness when we consider what couriers do with our parcels.

 

In terms of overclocking, the NH-D15S has you covered. It does depend on the silicone lottery of course, but as an example, my 6700K is overclocked to 4.6 GHz, in a RealBench stress test it hits around 74 degrees max. In games and the sim, much lower. the PWM fan usually runs at low RPM. I remain at 4.6GHz, but the cooler could quite conceivably handle a higher overclock.

 

Review here. D15 against five AIO coolers...

 

http://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nh-d15-versus-closed-loop-liquid-coolers/1

 

 

 

One final point, when others talk of an AIO being 4 degrees cooler, or 9 degrees cooler, we should ask ourselves what that equates to in terms of frame rate in the sim or games. If we do the maths, it's negligible. Maybe 100 MHz or 200 MHz greater overclock. So at 30 FPS less than two frames per second. 

 

 

 

Others will disagree, that's fine, this is just my opinion, from my perspective. Up to you to decide if my prospective is the right one or wrong one. :smile: I have no issue with those that wish to accept the admittedly small risk or leaks and opt for an AIO. Indeed, some prefer them aesthetically.

 

 

 

 

Hi Martin, as always, great advice, thanks. I've decided to go for the i7 6700, with the idea of OC to about 4.6, which is where I'm at with my SB 2500k. I'll work on your advice for the cooler, although the NH-D15S is more money than I really wanted to spend, as funds are limited. Re the MB and CPU, what do you think about this... https://www.scan.co.uk/products/gigabyte-z170-gaming-k3-atx-motherboard-intel-i7-6700k-unlocked-cpu-corsair-8gb-vengeance-lpx-ddr4-3

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Hi Martin, as always, great advice, thanks. I've decided to go for the i7 6700, with the idea of OC to about 4.6, which is where I'm at with my SB 2500k. I'll work on your advice for the cooler, although the NH-D15S is more money than I really wanted to spend, as funds are limited. Re the MB and CPU, what do you think about this... https://www.scan.co.uk/products/gigabyte-z170-gaming-k3-atx-motherboard-intel-i7-6700k-unlocked-cpu-corsair-8gb-vengeance-lpx-ddr4-3

 

That's the setup I use, same motherboard but with 16gb of the 3200mhz version of the same RAM.  Runs 4.6ghz no problem at all with just a modest Antec Kuhler 620

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That's the setup I use, same motherboard but with 16gb of the 3200mhz version of the same RAM.  Runs 4.6ghz no problem at all with just a modest Antec Kuhler 620

 

Good news then. But why 16Gb of RAM?

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Good news then. But why 16Gb of RAM?

 

It was included in a bundle and pennies more than if I'd bought the items seperate with 8gb

 

Edited by Charlatan

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It was included in a bundle and pennies more than if I'd bought the items seperate with 8gb

 

Ah, I see. Well, I'm  just going to get my credit card and do the dirty deed on this

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Hi Martin, as always, great advice, thanks. I've decided to go for the i7 6700, with the idea of OC to about 4.6, which is where I'm at with my SB 2500k.

 

Just to be clear, Howard......I assume that you mean 6700k?

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Hi Martin, as always, great advice, thanks. I've decided to go for the i7 6700, with the idea of OC to about 4.6, which is where I'm at with my SB 2500k. I'll work on your advice for the cooler, although the NH-D15S is more money than I really wanted to spend, as funds are limited. Re the MB and CPU, what do you think about this... https://www.scan.co.uk/products/gigabyte-z170-gaming-k3-atx-motherboard-intel-i7-6700k-unlocked-cpu-corsair-8gb-vengeance-lpx-ddr4-3

 

 

No experience of Gigabyte boards to be honest Howard.

 

I have...

 

Asus Z170 Deluxe

6700K -  As Chris mentioned it must be the "K" to enable you to overclock

NH-D15S

16GB GSkill Ripjaw V 3200 MHz - I can't recommend this RAM enough, great quality Samsung modules.

EVGA GTX 980 TI Classified - Bought before the 1080 was available

Samsung 850 Evo - M.2 and U.2 is available, but Evo fast enough for me. Boots W10 in 20 seconds.

Enermax Platimax 850 watt. Multi-rail PSU

Lian Li X510 - Gorgeous but expensive. 

Corsair Strafe RGB keyboard with Cherry MX silent keys

Logitech G502 Proteus RGB mouse

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Just to be clear, Howard......I assume that you mean 6700k?

Sure Chris. my bad!

No experience of Gigabyte boards to be honest Howard.

 

I have...

 

Asus Z170 Deluxe

6700K -  As Chris mentioned it must be the "K" to enable you to overclock

NH-D15S

16GB GSkill Ripjaw V 3200 MHz - I can't recommend this RAM enough, great quality Samsung modules.

EVGA GTX 980 TI Classified - Bought before the 1080 was available

Samsung 850 Evo - M.2 and U.2 is available, but Evo fast enough for me. Boots W10 in 20 seconds.

Enermax Platimax 850 watt. Multi-rail PSU

Lian Li X510 - Gorgeous but expensive. 

Corsair Strafe RGB keyboard with Cherry MX silent keys

Logitech G502 Proteus RGB mouse

 

As a matter of preference I would have preferred an Asus or EVGA board. The one you have is a a bit over the top for my budget. 

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Check out the Asus Z170-A Then Howard. Was my original choice but ended up with the Deluxe.

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Check out the Asus Z170-A Then Howard. Was my original choice but ended up with the Deluxe.

Sure, it was the fact that the bundle, which includes the RAM, is a really good deal. If I get an Asus board and assemble a bundle separately, it becomes quite a lot more expensive. Does the Asus come with it's own OC software to make life easier for someone like me!

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Check out the Asus Z170-A Then Howard. Was my original choice but ended up with the Deluxe.

 

What do you think Martin, before I buy?

 

  • ASUS Z170-A Intel Skylake SLi/CrossFire ATX Motherboard
  • Intel Core i7-6700K
  • Hyper 212X Tower CPU Cooler
  • Corsair 8GB DDR4 Vengeance LPX 2133MHz (2x 4Gb)

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What do you think Martin, before I buy?

 

  • ASUS Z170-A Intel Skylake SLi/CrossFire ATX Motherboard
  • Intel Core i7-6700K
  • Hyper 212X Tower CPU Cooler
  • Corsair 8GB DDR4 Vengeance LPX 2133MHz (2x 4Gb)

 

 

That RAM isn't upto the job.  Go with your original bundle, you will not be disappointed with that motherboard.  If you aren't too sure about overclocking just follow this https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18690667

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Hmm, interesting. Well, it seems the 6700 is great for overclocking. Can you or anyone recommend a good cooler for the 6700? rather stick with air rather than liquid, due to cost. Will I be able to get to about 4.6oc on air do you think? 

Have Cryorig H7, really cool temps when overclocked to 4.6GHZ :)

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Its approx 10-11% difference to 3200mhz , like a Oc from 4.2 to 4.6

 

????? that's the first time I've heard of such large gains in clock speeds due to upping the RAM. Are you sure?

Have Cryorig H7, really cool temps when overclocked to 4.6GHZ :)

Ah, I hadn't heard of this cooler. Seems to be well reviewed.

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Ah, I hadn't heard of this cooler. Seems to be well reviewed.

 

It is quiet, and the installation is so easy! I used the default thermal paste on it because it was better than artic silver (the one almost everyone uses) when dealing with high workload.

Highly recommended!

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4.6 is usually a nice safe OC. The pain starts when you push it over 4.7 at least on my SB / Ivy.

 

Cheers

jja

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Howard, yes iam sure did tests with P3D V3.3 running 1920x1080 more cpu bound with lower resulotion.

6700K @4.5ghz 2400 C15 mems avg 41fps to 45fps @4.5ghz 3200 C15 mems.

 

tested diffirent cpus and mems that time Haswell Skylake , 6700k,5960X,4770K,4790K

 

Haswell 4770K-4790K with DDR3 running 2666mhz C10, Haswell-E with DDR4 3000mhz C15

 

Skylake 6700K from 4.2 up to 5.0ghz and mems from 2400mhz(2133 is like runing DDR3 800mhz on a SB) up to 3600mhz C14

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What do you think Martin, before I buy?

 

  • ASUS Z170-A Intel Skylake SLi/CrossFire ATX Motherboard
  • Intel Core i7-6700K
  • Hyper 212X Tower CPU Cooler
  • Corsair 8GB DDR4 Vengeance LPX 2133MHz (2x 4Gb)

 

 

 

 

The Hyper 212 is a "reasonable" cooler. But don't expect greater than a 4.4 OC. Dependant on your specific chips capabilities of course. If that's the way you intend to go, a cheaper cooler, my choice would be the Noctua NH-U14S. Unbeatable Noctua engineering and a tad cooler.

 

Regarding the RAM, Westman is spot on as he usually is! GSkill Ripjaw V is the way to go in my opinion, and if you can nab the 3200 MHz modules all the better. 16GB is 95 quid on Amazon. 2400 MHz is 72 quid... so as you can see, not much extra for the faster, better RAM.

Re the Cryorig H7...

 

As you can see below, the H7 is five degrees warmer than the NH-D15. Same as the D15 in regard to noise levels though which is great.

 

The issue with the H7 that would concern me, is that it doesn't seem to have a "spring retention " mounting system. Which is essential on a large tower cooler in my view. I believe it may be cheaper than the Noctua though, but I personally wouldn't go cheap on cooling.

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/CRYORIG/H7_Universal/6.html

 Does the Asus come with it's own OC software to make life easier for someone like me!

 

 

Skylake overclocking is usually easy Howard. Manual or auto.

 

Asus boards come with AiSuite 3 and Five Way Optimisation.

 

Five Way Optimisation is auto overlooking that takes into consideration your specific hardware, namely cooling, CPU capabilities and even your PSU's capabilities. It runs sophisticated stress tests automatically to ensure stability.

 

When I tested 5WO, it did add a little extra voltage than my manual overclock, but nothing extreme, well within safe levels. It's designed not to exceed a safe voltage.

 

My impressions of 5WO are here...

 

http://www.avsim.com/topic/494147-asus-five-way-optimisation-impressions/

 

My manual overclocking results are here...

 

http://www.avsim.com/topic/494544-6700k-manual-overclocking-voltage/

 

Easy  6700K overclocking on Asus boards here...

 

https://rog.asus.com/articles/overclocking/guide-overclocking-core-i7-6700k-on-the-maximus-viii-extreme/

 

All you need for stress testing is ROG RealBench...

 

http://rog.asus.com/rog-pro/realbench-v2-leaderboard/

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