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Pluto7777

AI traffic via Flightradar24 ?

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Would it be a good suggestion for developers to offer AI addons that simulate real time traffic based on data available through Flightradar 24 ?

 

Off course not world wide but "zonable" in a way that you can define a zone from where traffic data is obtained to interact with the AI program.

 

Flightradar 24 would have to give authorization, thats for sure.

 

That would be very nice. Who agrees ?

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ould it be a good suggestion for developers to offer AI addons that simulate real time traffic based on data available through Flightradar 24 ?

 

Off course not world wide but "zonable" in a way that you can define a zone from where traffic data is obtained to interact with the AI program.

 

Flightradar 24 would have to give authorization, thats for sure.

 

That would be very nice. Who agrees ?

 

 

Great idea.  Only problem is, the AI aircraft wouldn't recognise your position relative to theirs, so you'll find yourself being flown through, taxi'd through etc.   Framerates would be hit quite hardbecause of traffic density - not to mention keeping up with the ever changing airlines/schemes etc for AI models.

 

Great idea though

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I agree, it would not be interesting to use it at one of the 10 busiest world airports.

But about being taxi'd through... even now this is happening to me with usual AI addons: ground vehicles are parked on my traject, or ground vehicles come from right side and ride through my plane while taxiing, these things do happen,  even now with no connection to real world data...

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Airnav used to have a product that downloaded a live traffic snapshot into FSX.  Haven't used it in years, so I don't know if they still offer it.

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Would it be a good suggestion for developers to offer AI addons that simulate real time traffic based on data available through Flightradar 24 ?

 

Off course not world wide but "zonable" in a way that you can define a zone from where traffic data is obtained to interact with the AI program.

 

Flightradar 24 would have to give authorization, thats for sure.

 

That would be very nice. Who agrees ?

 

I would have thought any implementation for this would more likely go direct to the source.

 

There was a product which did this sort of thing. FS Live Traffic I think. Check

https://flyawaysimulation.com/news/1865/ and

http://www.airnavsystems.com/fs/

 

I think they are the same folks who do Flightradar24. I havw one of their original RadarBoxes with a Transponder/ACARS aerial on my roof!

 

If it is the same folks, I wouldn't have thought they be amenable to others trying to use their data to compete with their product, unless perhaps FS Live is discontinued.

 

Pete

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FS Live Traffic

 

Thats the one.

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I would have thought any implementation for this would more likely go direct to the source.

 

There was a product which did this sort of thing. FS Live Traffic I think. Check

https://flyawaysimulation.com/news/1865/ and

http://www.airnavsystems.com/fs/

 

I think they are the same folks who do Flightradar24. I havw one of their original RadarBoxes with a Transponder/ACARS aerial on my roof!

 

If it is the same folks, I wouldn't have thought they be amenable to others trying to use their data to compete with their product, unless perhaps FS Live is discontinued.

 

Pete

Several years ago I used FsLive Traffic icw MyTraffic.

Back then it was 19 euro per 6 months.

 

Nowadays the price is very high ( + 110 euro per 6 months ) and therefore I do not use it anymore.

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Only for FS2004 - possible?

 

I don't think any developer would be interested in doing anything completely new for a 13 year old sim version. FSX and P3D are more compatible, and P3D still being developed.

 

Pete

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AFAIK FlightRadar24 does not offer an API - they are more into making their own client software.

 

There are a few pitfalls if you want the traffic to be "live". AFAIK FsLiveTraffic compiles BGL based flight plans for offline use, so the routes that the AI take would diverge from the real ones.

 

I made a prototype app that uses the OpenSky API to inject "really live" aircraft traffic into the sim. Apart from the flight mechanics themselves being tricky (the data stream is not/cannot be continuous, so it is a challenge to make the AI fly halfway realistically) you only get the "flight-id" code of the aircraft - nothing else. No type, no airline, no further information. So the user has to piece that together himself, basically building up a database that matches flight or tail numbers to AI aircraft models. But there is no guarantee that the same flight will be made by the same aircraft the next time around, or that those flight numbers are even unique, so the effort might be futile from the start.

 

Using the FlightAware API is the best choice IMO, as a lot of information can be obtained from it on top of the position data. But that may just be too expensive for the casual simmer. Position data obtained with the "search" API call (= get all aircraft in a certain lat/lon box) is "Class 2" =  $0.0079 per request. If I only update the positions every 15 seconds, plus adding in the aircraft data requests, this still amounts to more than $2 per hour. So in a normal simmers' usage scenario you might be looking at in excess of $100 per month.

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As a follow-up for those interested: I put some more time into the prototype and here is my solution for "real traffic":

 

(Sorry, I know that sometimes the planes in FlightRadar24 and the sim window don't match - the Alitalia and the Aeroflot were on parallel approaches and I switched back and forth between aircraft - without thinking of switching over the FlightRadar24 target too every time)

 

I built a FlightAware client into this app too, but IMHO that is not viable. Cost is even higher than I anticipated. At the highest refresh rate, one might be looking at more than $6 per hour at a major airport.

 

Edit: this app is not for public use, it is a research project for now. There are legal issues that have to be resolved, before it can be released to the public.

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Using the FlightAware API is the best choice IMO, as a lot of information can be obtained from it on top of the position data. But that may just be too expensive for the casual simmer.

 

 

Oliver,

 

Just between you me and the lamp post :wink:  I would think that FlightAware might be interested in developing a graphical interface for its online free users that would display the correct aircraft model and livery just like your demo. I get bored when traveling  (or waiting for someone to arrive)  with the pedestrian FlightAware map output, with its teeny plane avatars and description. Maybe FA would license an addon to P3d to flight simmers for a more reasonable price in exchange for something that allowed a traveler to see the actual aircraft on the FA website. You'd have to get Burk to sell you a license to the My T liveries and model.

 

Jay

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Hello Jay,

 

first let me point out that this app does not come with any aircraft models and it never will. Instead I built three databases that match MyTraffic, UT2 and WOAI models to their real world counterparts. The user can expand these databases with any model that he wishes or he can build his own database if so inclined. But to use the built-in databases he would have to own one of those products.

 

Second: FlightAware seem to be very keen on their money. The pricing model leaves no doubt about the conditions that have to be met when their API is used. I don't see any way around that, and why should they make an exception for us simmers. Most of the online services that we take for granted as "free" come at a hefty price tag. For example, the Google Static Maps that you see in my Lorby Radar Screen in the background require a license at a price of almost 10000€ per year when used commercially - which is why I have released it as freeware, and the Live Traffic will be too (if they let me release it, that is).

 

And, again between you and me, that FlightAware API seems to be carefully built so that you can't get all the information that you need in one single stroke. Every call seems to necessitate another one, for example only to find out the airline name. And that second call then is in a different pricing class, may even be much more expensive that the initiator. So I compiled additional offline databases with aircraft, airport and airline ICAO codes, so I can save a bit on that cost. On top of that, they charge you by the size of the result that you are getting back - every batch of 15 datasets is again charged as a full request.

 

Mind you, what you are seeing in the video is the free-of-charge variant, using OpenSky. I didn't dare to switch over to the FlightAware client - that one has an actual $$ counter instead of the planefinder logo, which is keeping track of the requests that have been made and how much they cost.

 

Edit: if you are interested in more information, I have uploaded the user manual for the Lorby Live Traffic to the donwloads-section of the LORBY-SI website.

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Hello @ll,

 

I regret to inform you that PlaneFinder have forbidden any use of their data, even for a freeware release. We have shut down any further development of this app.

 

I am beginning to see why noone did this (it isn't that hard at all). There only is the costly way thorugh a paid API FlightAware. The seemingly  "free" online services are actually not free at all for everyone, and they will shut you down very quickly. They didn't even want to talk about a commercial approach.

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I know you think it's a real long shot, but you might have better luck working out a deal with FlightAware. Ironically, it has been my experience that bigger operations tend to be more open to new ideas than the little guys are. Pinkfroot, Ltd  (Planefinder) has somewhere between 1 and 10 employees according to LinkedIn:

 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/pinkfroot

 

FlightAware has 51-200 employees and its probably closer to the high end, since 54 of them are on LinkedIn individually. From your response, I also wonder whether Pinkfroot decided that you had a great idea and they might try doing it themselves.

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Hi Jay,

 

TBH, I don't think that they (Planefinder) took a closer look at what I am doing. They didn't request any information about the app. And I doubt that they could replicate it, their data is not suitable for this type of app. What I needed from them was the meta data around the flight, like plane type, origin and destination. There are other sources to get that info (I have done that too), but I doubt that it would be a good idea to release it to the public.

 

I already have a full FlightAware client too. But the user would have to pay their fee himself, there is no way that I could front that kind of cost. I don't think that there is anything to talk about with them, their conditions on API usage are very clear. You pay by how much you use it. Only the front website (with the ads) is free.

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