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jackralston

FS9 AI remain on stand after clearance

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I've seen similar topics in the past but it appears they are more towards an issue on FSX. I like to do a bit of AI spotting so I setup Heathrow and left it overnight to look at it today (real-time) but I noticed literally every stand was taken, no aircraft were taxiing out. Having looked at the explorer tool, all the relevant departures were stuck in "clearance".

Then having got a bit further with the investigation, I noticed this...

SO!..the setup for heathrow is 09L landing only, 09R departures only. I have used the xwind method to make sure 09 ends are used regardless of weather (which I've done on various AFCADs with no issue). When I start up FS at whatever time, aircraft will be in 'sleep' state then get clearance and then go to 'pushback' state with the runway in traffic explorer showing what they will be going to, which is 09R. 

HOWEVER! 

Aircraft which were spawned enroute to EGLL and landed on 09L will land, go to gate and go to 'sleep' mode ready for the next leg with the runway on traffic explorer still showing 09L (landing runway), therefore when they get clearance for the flight they wont pushback as they can't use 09L for departures and so are stuck on stand! I have no idea why it is doing this all of a sudden. This explains how after an hour or so, the amount of departures dries up!

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Never heard of this before. Why would ai when ready to start their new leg be required to use the same runway they landed on?  If it is for some reason part of the original FS9 code you may be the first person in 13 years to discover this !

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Try removing the Take-off/Landing Only restriction for the runways using ADE or AFCAD and see if that makes any difference.

 

Colin B

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Never heard of this before. Why would ai when ready to start their new leg be required to use the same runway they landed on?  If it is for some reason part of the original FS9 code you may be the first person in 13 years to discover this !

I know, absolutely baffling. So basically if you start up at the airport and the plane is already on the ground, the outbound leg will go to the correct departure runway, BUT, if the flight is inbound, lands then sleeps until next leg (1hr later for example) it will for some reason want to go back to the runway used for arrival, so when you look on traffic explorer it can't pushback and is stuck on 'clearance' state for the arrival runway which cannot be used for deps. 

 

This is the first time I've ever had this problem, it's happening at multiple airports too now. 

 

 

Try removing the Take-off/Landing Only restriction for the runways using ADE or AFCAD and see if that makes any difference.

 

Colin B

I'll give that a go and see if it works but i've used this restriction for years on various airports. So for heathrow using 09 ends only it is setup as 09L (takeoff no, landing yes), 27R (takeoff no, landing yes), 09R (takeoff yes, landing no), 27L (takeoff no, landing no)

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I'll give that a go and see if it works but i've used this restriction for years on various airports. So for heathrow using 09 ends only it is setup as 09L (takeoff no, landing yes), 27R (takeoff no, landing yes), 09R (takeoff yes, landing no), 27L (takeoff no, landing no)

I would be very surprised if that worked, actually. And it certainly doesn't equate to real practice at Heathrow.

 

John

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So for heathrow using 09 ends only it is setup as 09L (takeoff no, landing yes), 27R (takeoff no, landing yes), 09R (takeoff yes, landing no), 27L (takeoff no, landing no)

That's wrong and no wonder AI is confused. You should have for example

rwy 09L T/O  L -----rwy 27R T/O  L          rwy 09R T/O  L ----- rwy 27L T/O  L

This will correctly give you landing and take-off runways in parallel. You need to switch them of course if the wind is in a different direction.

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Yes FS9 doesnt like it if you get too clever with runway restrictions. Airports with more than one runway you can close a runway completely (both ends); close a runway for takeoff or landing (but make it for both ends. I have a feeling this is your problem with the ai.

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Thanks, the technique I tried has worked all the time so that it limits 09 ends only been utilised regardless of wind direction as I use the x wind technique on so many airports but only now have I realised it is causing an AI issue (although it never use to). I will go back to my old file which is 27L/09R deps and 27R/09L arrivals. I used the 7.8 technique and it always worked but perhaps it's suddenly causing an issue with AI

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No luck so far, considering the aircraft generated at stand when I startup FS9 pushback and taxi to 27R with no issues, the technique must work, It is only the ones that land, then taxi to stand and cannot then start the next leg and are stuck in 'clearance' state on stand. It happens on all aircraft types and airlines at various airports.

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Ok so, I've fixed it kinda....it is an issue with certain AFCADs although I'm not sure what the actual issue is! It isn't to do with the closing one end completely so that only the other end can be utilised regardless of wind direction and it isn't to do with the 7.8 xwind technique. 
 
For example, I have attached 2 version of my ImagineSim KATL 2012 AFCAD. Working version is an older AFCAD. The two AFCADs attached are similar, no real massive changes that would confuse AI wanting to pushback that need to start the next leg (having landed). The xml files are included too so if anyone can notice a real issue, do say  :)

EDIT: attached files are on in this forum...

http://www.alpha-india.net/forums/index.php?topic=24841.0

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"09 ends only been utilised regardless of wind direction" makes zero sense.

 

This is correct rwy 09L T/O  L -----rwy 27R T/O  L          rwy 09R T/O  L ----- rwy 27L T/O  L

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"09 ends only been utilised regardless of wind direction" makes zero sense.

 

This is correct rwy 09L T/O  L -----rwy 27R T/O  L          rwy 09R T/O  L ----- rwy 27L T/O  L

 

So it's a trick you can use to have an AFCAD that regardless of wind direction will only use one end of the runway, Using the xwind technique it makes sure that only 09 end is used. It helps for making very specific taxiway routing AFCADs. Adding xwind runways up to 90deg either side of the real runways makes sure they don't use the other end. 

 

09L - landing only - L yes, T/O no

09R - takeoff only - L no, T/O yes

27L - not used at all - L no, T/O no

27R - have to open to landing to let 09L be used - L yes, T/O no

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"09 ends only been utilised regardless of wind direction" makes zero sense.

 

This is correct rwy 09L T/O  L -----rwy 27R T/O  L          rwy 09R T/O  L ----- rwy 27L T/O  L

This works so it would seem that there is another problem with your scenery and/or afcad.

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