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martin-w

Ryzen Performance Increase - Beating Intel in Games!

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For you Ryzen fans...

According to this guy, the latest BIOS resulted in a 28% increase in Ryzen performance, thus beating Intel in games!

Information elsewhere, suggests that AMD didn't allow motherboard developers enough time to perfect their firmware, thus the memory and other issues straight after launch. It's suggested that now the motherboard manufacturers have had time to tune their UEFI's, the true Ryzen performance is been realised.

 

 

 

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This has been confirmed on several respected and credible hardware vlogs. Very exciting to see Intel being forced to up their game.

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Youtube videos should be taken with a bucket of salt. They don't have the resources of proper, professional sites to analyze and check their data for errors. They also tend to be very sensationalist, because they get paid by the views.

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51 minutes ago, JimmiG said:

Youtube videos should be taken with a bucket of salt. They don't have the resources of proper, professional sites to analyze and check their data for errors. They also tend to be very sensationalist, because they get paid by the views.

Correct, however they do not get paid based on benchmarking results.  

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And if you actually watch the video you'll see that it's a clickbait title as performance increased in only 2 games.  I watch this youtube channel every day.  I'm severely disappointed in Paul for the title he choose.  

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Also bear in mind some game studio`s are paid to optimize there games for certain hardware hence the adds on the start screen.

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3 hours ago, JimmiG said:

Youtube videos should be taken with a bucket of salt. They don't have the resources of proper, professional sites to analyze and check their data for errors. They also tend to be very sensationalist, because they get paid by the views.

Uhh... not gonna deny the prevalence of click bait on YouTube, but how do you think those "professional sites" make money?

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OMG, here we go again... Someone trying to bring us good news and an eye 'opener' and immediately we have folks trying to deny it.  Goodness, isn't it to our best interest to have good competition, which will give us better processors and a reasonable price?

 

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It's very good news, it just means that the Ryzen platform is maturing and things will get better.  Intel has been competition-free for way too long now.

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It always makes sense to be sceptical. So you guys are right to be.

Worth also considering that AMD have said they will work with other developers, as they have with ashes of the singularity, to enhance performance in other games too. 

Personally, I will keep an open mind and see what the future holds. Given that this is early days for Ryzen, we may have some surprises in store.

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4 hours ago, joemiller said:

OMG, here we go again... Someone trying to bring us good news and an eye 'opener' and immediately we have folks trying to deny it.  Goodness, isn't it to our best interest to have good competition, which will give us better processors and a reasonable price?

 

Well, I do happen to own a Ryzen 1800X system, and having followed the "scene" and tried all the proposed "fixes", I have come to accept that there is no "miracle cure" for Ryzen's gaming performance. It is what it is. Excellent, but slightly lagging behind Intel. Doesn't mean something is broken and needs "fixing".

BIOS updates, Windows patches and game updates might fix isolated bottlenecks and improve performance in a few specific cases/games, but you can't just apply a patch or BIOS update and get +30% across the board (as the video clearly shows). That would have had to mean AMD released Ryzen with a known, serious design flaw causing a 30% performance deficit. I think the engineers at AMD are better than that.

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10 hours ago, JimmiG said:

but you can't just apply a patch or BIOS update and get +30% across the board (as the video clearly shows). That would have had to mean AMD released Ryzen with a known, serious design flaw causing a 30% performance deficit. I think the engineers at AMD are better than that.

 

Well actually yes you can. It's known that AMD rushed the release, in fact motherboard manufacturers have complained that they weren't given anywhere near enough time to develop their firmware. So not surprising that BIOS releases are fixing issues and increasing capability.

It's true that there were only two games in the video that demonstrated this big increase in frame rate. However, worth remembering that Intel have been working with game developers for years, to enable them to optimise their games for Intel CPU's. For example, there's a range of software tools Intel provide to game developers to do just that.  AMD have said, that they intend to do the same for Ryzen, namely work with developers [just as Intel have] to optimise games for Ryzen. So in essence, the two games you saw in the video that demonstrated increased performance, "may" just be the start with more to follow.

As I said earlier, it's early days, so worth keeping an open mind. And again, scepticism is a good thing, so no problem with sceptical opinions being posted. Without scepticism we would all believe Trump when he tells us the Chinese invented climate change, 9/11 was an inside job and that the queen is a shape shifting alien reptile... in short, we would be living in caves still if we accepted all things as fact. So keep being sceptical lads, it's a good thing.

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4 hours ago, martin-w said:

It's true that there were only two games in the video that demonstrated this big increase in frame rate. However, worth remembering that Intel have been working with game developers for years, to enable them to optimise their games for Intel CPU's. For example, there's a range of software tools Intel provide to game developers to do just that.  AMD have said, that they intend to do the same for Ryzen, namely work with developers [just as Intel have] to optimise games for Ryzen. So in essence, the two games you saw in the video that demonstrated increased performance, "may" just be the start with more to follow.

The difference is that those optimizations would have to be done per-game, so it's not something that can improve performance across the board. There's no simple fix like a Windows update that would improve performance by 30% in every single game.

The few Ryzen-specific patches that have been released for games so far show a lot of promise. But this requires developers to actually go back and revisit their games and optimize them. This might not happen with sims like P3D v3, for example (P3D v4, perhaps), and I'm not sure LR have enough resources to optimize XP11 specifically for Ryzen.

One thing that does improve performance across the board is faster memory. Many reviewers tested with the RAM at 2133 or 2400, and there's a good 15-20%+ gain when using 3200 memory. With more mature BIOS versions, it's getting easier to attain those speeds. Also, AMD will release an update allowing even faster memory to work without bclk overclocking. Of course, Intel also benefits from faster memory, but the gain is much larger with Ryzen due to the way the two Core Clusters are connected.

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Quote

The few Ryzen-specific patches that have been released for games so far show a lot of promise. But this requires developers to actually go back and revisit their games and optimize them. This might not happen with sims like P3D v3, for example (P3D v4, perhaps), and I'm not sure LR have enough resources to optimize XP11 specifically for Ryzen.

 

Well of course, I wasn't talking about flight sim. Quite frankly I care little for flight sim these days. It's not even on my system. 

 

Quote

One thing that does improve performance across the board is faster memory. Many reviewers tested with the RAM at 2133 or 2400, and there's a good 15-20%+ gain when using 3200 memory. With more mature BIOS versions, it's getting easier to attain those speeds. Also, AMD will release an update allowing even faster memory to work without bclk overclocking. Of course, Intel also benefits from faster memory, but the gain is much larger with Ryzen due to the way the two Core Clusters are connected.

 

I know, I'm aware. As I said... " not surprising that BIOS releases are fixing issues [like memory issues] and increasing performance". 

 

Quote

There's no simple fix like a Windows update that would improve performance by 30% in every single game.

 

Yes there is, maybe not 30% but pretty close.  What you said above and what I was referring to...

 

Quote

One thing that does improve performance across the board is faster memory. Many reviewers tested with the RAM at 2133 or 2400, and there's a good 15-20%+ gain when using 3200 memory. With more mature BIOS versions, it's getting easier to attain those speeds.

 

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32 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

Well of course, I wasn't talking about flight sim. Quite frankly I care little for flight sim these days. It's not even on my system. 

 

Maybe you should look for another forum... :cool:

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15 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

Maybe you should look for another forum... :cool:

 

I'm sorry Bert, I don't loose my temper often but that was very rude, an unnecessary comment. I think you owe me an apology.

I am, and have been, a moderator over at Just Flight for many years and also contributed here regarding flight sim for many years. I may not have the sim on my system at present, with no plans to install in the short term but I will probably do so again in the future. 

Thus, if the experience I have, regarding the sim, or regarding "hardware"on this "hardware" sub forum is of possible value I will contribute. I have received a number of PM's thanking me for advice, so I will continue to do so.

In addition, I have found the advice I have received here on this "hardware" sub forum, from knowledgeable individuals like Westman, and Max, of great value to me.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, martin-w said:

 

I'm sorry Bert, I don't loose my temper often but that was very rude, an unnecessary comment. I think you owe me an apology.

I am, and have been, a moderator over at Just Flight for many years and also contributed here regarding flight sim for many years. I may not have the sim on my system at present, with no plans to install in the short term but I will probably do so again in the future. 

Thus, if the experience I have, regarding the sim, or regarding "hardware"on this "hardware" sub forum is of possible value I will contribute. I have received a number of PM's thanking me for advice, so I will continue to do so.

In addition, I have found the advice I have received here on this "hardware" sub forum, from knowledgeable individuals like Westman, and Max, of great value to me.

 

 

 

Sorry, did not mean to be rude, but you clearly indicated that you had  "lost interest in flightsims"..  Apologies offered.

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1 hour ago, Bert Pieke said:

Sorry, did not mean to be rude, but you clearly indicated that you had  "lost interest in flightsims"..  Apologies offered.

 

Lost interest in flight sim or not, the knowledge I have hasn't suddenly disappeared. And as I said, this "hardware" sub forum has been a valuable resource for me and  I have been able to help others. 

I'm never sure if an apology that includes "but" is an apology or not, I prefer unreserved apologies, but I accept your apology anyway.

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I also want to say that Martin's support is really helpful in this forum. Flight Simulators as we know require a good system and Martin both in forums and private messages has given me valuable advises and help solve problems. :)

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On 4/3/2017 at 8:39 AM, JimmiG said:

Youtube videos should be taken with a bucket of salt. They don't have the resources of proper, professional sites to analyze and check their data for errors. They also tend to be very sensationalist, because they get paid by the views.

JimmiG, I disagree with the "bucket of salt." Salt is expensive now a days. :uwe_merm:

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On 4/3/2017 at 4:29 PM, JimmiG said:

Well, I do happen to own a Ryzen 1800X system, and having followed the "scene" and tried all the proposed "fixes", I have come to accept that there is no "miracle cure" for Ryzen's gaming performance. It is what it is. Excellent, but slightly lagging behind Intel. Doesn't mean something is broken and needs "fixing".

BIOS updates, Windows patches and game updates might fix isolated bottlenecks and improve performance in a few specific cases/games, but you can't just apply a patch or BIOS update and get +30% across the board (as the video clearly shows). That would have had to mean AMD released Ryzen with a known, serious design flaw causing a 30% performance deficit. I think the engineers at AMD are better than that.

I hope one day we get a really good chip for our sim.

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On 4/4/2017 at 10:49 AM, martin-w said:

 

Well of course, I wasn't talking about flight sim. Quite frankly I care little for flight sim these days. It's not even on my system. 

 

Wow, I wasn't expecting this; you really surprised me. With almost 4,000 posts, I was thinking you're a hard-core simmer. 

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4 hours ago, joemiller said:

Wow, I wasn't expecting this; you really surprised me. With almost 4,000 posts, I was thinking you're a hard-core simmer. 

 

I was a hard core simmer Joe. Up until a few months ago. Hence why I have nearly 4000 posts here, and moderate at JF with 26,668 posts. I've also written product reviews and done a limited amount of beta testing.

Lost interest a few months ago after I built my current rig. Probably wont be permanent, see it as a sabbatical, could be brief, could be protracted. Nobody knows.

My first sim was on the Sinclair ZX81, so I'm sure you're aware of how long ago that as. After all these years simming it's not so much of a challenge anymore and a bit boring. As I say, sabbatical probably won't last. 

My current simming is in a Python with three large plasma accelerators and two gimballed beams. :biggrin: Elite Dangerous Horizons.

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