FO & PF3

[RALF9636 1,966]

Thanks for clarifying.

 

FYI I have set MceFOPerCharSpeedDuration=120 and that cured the intial ATC clearance problem for me - my TTS voice seems to be quite slow.

 

On the grammar:

I found "request ATC clearance" makes the FO ask for the Initial clearance. He says "Startup clearance" but you already said that is correct terminology.

But what is the phrase then to make him request the Startup (and Pushback) clearance? These are two separate requests in PF3 (with the respective Pushback/Startup option set). It is the same hotkey so I can again ask for "ATC clearance" but there should be something different for the "Pushback and Engine Start clearance" also.

 

 

 

[RALF9636 1,966]

I made another complete flight with the new MCE-FO.

The overall experience is just great!

 

There is only one major issue: The change of frequency before acknowledging the handoff. I think some other inconsistencies are consequent issues.

 

I would appreciate if you could fix just that beforehand and we could go on testing from there.

 

[FS++ 709]

41 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

I made another complete flight with the new MCE-FO.

The overall experience is just great!

 

There is only one major issue: The change of frequency before acknowledging the handoff. I think some other inconsistencies are consequent issues.

 

I would appreciate if you could fix just that beforehand and we could go on testing from there.

 

Wilco

 

[Dirk98 354]

On 19.05.2017 at 10:16 AM, RALF9636 said:

I tested with FSUIPC (4.966c) Multiline Window on and off.

Ralf, what are your FSUIPC "FSUIPC multiline", "Suppress multiline", "Hide all single" settings when using MCE? Which one is ticked?

Thanks,

Dirk.

[RALF9636 1,966]

FSUIPC Multiline ticked, the others unticked.

[d.tsakiris 418]

On 5/19/2017 at 3:36 PM, FS++ said:

I'm really stumped with regards these freezing events, as nobody else has reported them.

 

I am guessing it could be related to one of your joystick buttons being unreliable.

Suggest you unplug it and perform a couple of flights using DEL key for transmission and see how it goes.

 

I thought similar problems were reported. Anyway, installed 2.7.1.0, and a VFR flight with FSX' built-in ATC went really well. No freezes, very solid recognition. I'll keep you posted!

[FS++ 709]

On 5/20/2017 at 0:04 PM, RALF9636 said:

I made another complete flight with the new MCE-FO.

The overall experience is just great!

 

There is only one major issue: The change of frequency before acknowledging the handoff. I think some other inconsistencies are consequent issues.

 

I would appreciate if you could fix just that beforehand and we could go on testing from there.

 

Please download this patch and manually replace 4 files total.

MCE patch for PF3

Changelog.

Captions are now queued so none overwrites the previous one or gets ignored.

Better timings with acknowledgments. And radios tuning working as expected after acknowledgments

You can now ask FO to remind you ATC related stuff with commands such as

Confirm speed restriction.

confirm departure frequency.

confirm taxi instructions.

 

[Helix1250 3]

I'm loving this new version of MCE!!

Is there a way to get a basic list of commands that can be used, I got stuck trying to request my FO to request pushback.  A list of basic terms that could be used would be very helpful so I could get started and then move on and try different variations. :)

 

Cheers Rob

 

[RALF9636 1,966]

14 minutes ago, Helix1250 said:

 I got stuck trying to request my FO to request pushback. 

 

"Request push and start clearance" worked for me.

 

The new version is awesome!

I will post a list of some remaining issues after my first flight is completed. Nothing serious though so far.

[FS++ 709]

42 minutes ago, Helix1250 said:

I'm loving this new version of MCE!!

Is there a way to get a basic list of commands that can be used, I got stuck trying to request my FO to request pushback.  A list of basic terms that could be used would be very helpful so I could get started and then move on and try different variations. :)

 

Cheers Rob

 

Asking FO to request push on your behalf isn't in yet. Will be in next update.

 

Here is the entire range of requests you can make to FO

<At least one item from the following list> (Required)
      could you please let me know
      could you please tell me
      could you please give me
      could you please get me
      could you please get
      could you please confirm
      would you please let me know
      would you please tell me
      would you please give me
      would you please get me
      would you please get
      would you please confirm
      can you please let me know
      can you please tell me
      can you please give me
      can you please get me
      can you please get
      can you please confirm
      do you mind to confirm
      do you mind confirm
      do you mind to get
      what's the matter with
      what's the deal with
      can you tell me
      can you tell us
      could you tell me
      could you tell us
      where the hell are
      where the hell is
      do you happen to know
      do you happen know
      can i ask you for
      can i ask you
      can i ask what
      can i ask
      may i ask you for
      may i ask you
      may i ask what
      may i ask
      any information about
      any chance you get
      any chance grab
      any chance for
      any luck with
      please tell me about
      please remind me about
      please find out about
      please get the current
      please get current
      please look up
      please look for
      please get me current
      please get us current
      please get me
      please get us
      please remind us
      please remind me
      please work out
      please find out
      tell me about
      remind me about
      would you know
      do you remember
      find out about
      is it possible
      could you confirm
      mind to confirm
      whatts up with
      any news about
      any idea about
      any idea what
      for what reason
      do you have
      where the hell
      have you got
      have we got
      did you do
      do you know
      do we have
      do we know
      in what way
      mind to read
      mind to get
      look up for
      look up
      look for
      is there
      get current
      mind confirm
      please confirm
      do confirm
      remind us
      remind me
      what is
      what about
      what are
      what was
      what's on
      remind me
      please get
      mind read
      please read
      mind get
      get us
      tell me
      tell us
      get me
      get us
      are you
      are we
      any chance
      how is
      how are
      how much
      how many
      where is
      where are
      why is
      why are
      will you
      did you
      did we
      did I
      do we
      have we
      confirm
      request
      current
      latest
      what's
      read
      get
      who
      how
      where
      when
      who
      is
    <End choice list>

    the (optional word "the")

    <At least one item from the following list> (Required)
      distance and track to the airport
      distance and track to airport
      distance and heading to the airport
      distance and heading to airport
      heading to the airport
      heading to the airfield
      heading to airport
      heading to airfield
      direction to airport
      direction to airfield
      airport direction
      airport location
      our call sign
      my call sign
      callsign
      call sign
      flight number
      ATC identifier
      aircraft registration
      ATC registration
      zero fuel weight
      zero fuel
      percentage of CG
      CG percentage
      centre of gravity percentage
      centre gravity percentage
      centre of gravity
      centre gravity
      V speeds
      V one
      decision speed
      VR
      rotation speed
      V two
      transition altitude
      altitude for transition
      altitude transition
      flaps setting for takeoff
      flaps setting takeoff
      takeoff flaps setting
      runway in use
      active runway
      takeoff runway
      landing runway
      flex temp
      flex temperature
      flexible temperature
      de-rating temperature
      power saving temperature
      approach speed
      reference speed
      v ref
      transition level
      transition flight level
      flight level for transition
      flight level transition
      level for transition
      level transition
      takeoff weight
      gross weight
      takeoff mass
      speed
      airspeed
      indicated speed
      indicated airspeed
      altitude
      altimeter reading
      heading
      magnetic heading
      compass reading
      vertical speed
      variometer
      rate of climb
      rate of descent
      latest assigned atc clearance
      assigned atc clearance
      latest atc clearance
      our atc clearance
      the atc clearance
      atc clearance
      atc assigned departure frequency
      atc assigned altitude
      atc assigned heading
      atc assigned squawk code
      atc assigned transponder code
      atc assigned squawk
      atc assigned transponder
      atc assigned code
      assigned departure frequency
      assigned atc altitude
      assigned atc heading
      assigned atc squawk code
      assigned atc transponder code
      assigned atc squawk
      assigned atc transponder
      assigned atc code
      cleared to heading
      cleared heading
      cleared to altitude
      cleared to flight level
      cleared altitude
      assigned flight level
      assigned level
      assigned altitude
      assigned heading
      assigned speed restriction
      assigned speed limit
      assigned speed
      departure frequency
      assigned squawk code
      assigned transponder code
      assigned squawk
      assigned transponder
      assigned code
      transponder code
      squawk code
      speed restriction
      speed limit
      taxiway instructions
      taxiway guidance
      taxi instructions
      taxi guidance
      transponder
      squawk
      ATC menu choice
      ATC options
      ATC choice
      ATC menu
      can i say to ATC
      can i say ATC
      displayed on ATC window
      zfw
      cg
    <End choice list>

Optionally, may utter something here, like the FO name or whatever.

As you can see, the grammar is built with the idea that users don't need to read lengthy manuals.

Don't forget, if you happen to be speaking a command that doesn't seem to be recognized (after speaking it a couple of times, you can make that same improvised speech work.

Go to Voxscript interface and create a flow with a single command. Just include one of the above built-in commands, and your custom command will alias the it. The custom command can be anything you like. For instance if you want to teach FO that when you say "The boys are leaving" you meant "request atc clearance", just alias it to the built-in one (request atc clearance) and it will be an additional way to request the same thing.

Using that less advertised part of VoxScript, you could interact with FO on your terms, and never be short of vocabulary, since you'd be speaking your Lingo.

 

 

[RALF9636 1,966]

Here are some things I noticed on my first flight with the newest MCE-Version

 

0. It is just magic hearing the MCE-FO talking to PF3! Well done! Thank you!

 

1. Talking simultaneously with AI chatter.

Two different situations here:

a) FO talks to ATC, then an AI transmission (or ATC to AI) starts: this can be avoided by sending the PF3 PTT hotkey just before the FO transmission.

b) FO starts talking into a playing AI transmission. This cannot be avoided by the PF3 PTT hotkey. MCE should find a way to detect wether an AI transmission is playing and wait until it is finished - and only then send the PF3 PTT hotkey and start talking.

 

2. IFR clearance, Startup Clearance, Pushback and Startup clearance

MCE seems not to differentiate between these three, though they are (optional – can be chosen before connecting PF3) different requests in PF3.

 

Subsequently the FO says „Clearance Delivery...“ when requesting Pushback and Startup even though already on Ground frequency.

 

3. Name of destination airport

Very nice to have the FO say the name and not just the ICAO code!

 

In my case it was „Vienna / Schwechat“.

Apart from his problems pronouncing „Schwechat“ correctly ;-) he (TTS voice) said „Vienna slash Schwechat“.

I don't want the „slash“, so: Where does MCE take the airport names from? Can I just delete the „/“ there? Or is it an internal list in MCE? Can MCE perhaps automatically replace the „/“ (or „-“ etc.) with a "space" when pronouncing the name?

 

4. Timing of responses

I have set the „PerCharSpeedDuration“ settings so that the timing works quite well for me in most situations.

 

PfePerCharSpeedDuration=55 //45

MceFOPerCharSpeedDuration=120 //30

 

There are some special situations though where a significantly longer PfePerCharSpeedDuration would be needed. These are the taxi clearances as well as the departure and approach clearances. This apparently is because PF3 gives these clearances in a quite low speed (probably to make them understandable better). It is particularly noticeable with very long taxi clearances.

So the PfePerCharSpeedDuration should be automatically increased (maybe by 50 %) for these clearances, if possible.

 

5. Readback of takeoff clearance

The FO did not automatically („you have ATC“ was set) readback the takeoff clearance. When I asked „reply to ATC“ he repeated the taxi clearance again.

 

That might have to do with the fact that I did not wait for PF3 to hand me off to Tower but switched to Tower manually before asking the FO „request takeoff clearance“.

 

6. „Dialing ...“ after handoff

Is there a way to make the the FO dial in the new frequency silently? Without saying „dialing ...“? This phrase sometimes seems like a part of the readback of the handoff and is a little annoying to me.

 

7. Check-in with new facility

I am not sure if „as cleared“ is the correct phraseology here.

The original PF3 phraseology is: „<callsign> (is with you) at Flightlevel … / out of Flightlevel … for Flightlevel ...“

 

8. Handoff to Tower for landing

Contacting Tower (immediately after "contact Tower on ... when on final") comes too early. It should be automatically postponed until established on final, if that is possible. If not possible it should be left to a request by the user „Request landing clearance“.

 

9. Requesting taxi to gate

The FO did not automatically contact Ground for taxi to gate. He had dialed in the Ground frequency correctly though after handoff from Tower.

I could not make him do it neither because when asking „request taxi clearance“ MCE apparently sent hotkey 0 (taxi to runway) and not hotkey 5.

I finally manually pressed hotkey 5 which worked, but leads to:

 

10. MCE-FO voice when manually pressing a hotkey

Would it be possible to have the MCE-FO voice when manually pressing a hotkey? There might be the need to do that should anything go wrong or for some special requests.

 

11. Picking up a similar callsign

While taxiing to the gate the FO picked up a „Lufthansa 234 is clear of the runway“ and responded to that.

We were Lufthansa 134 and Lufthansa 234 landed shortly after us (coincidentally!).

This might also be a consequence of 9. of course, because the FO was still waiting for the „clear of the runway“ announcement and the similarity of the callsigns was just a coincidence.

 

[FS++ 709]

47 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

Here are some things I noticed on my first flight with the newest MCE-Version

 

0. It is just magic hearing the MCE-FO talking to PF3! Well done! Thank you!

 

1. Talking simultaneously with AI chatter.

Two different situations here:

a) FO talks to ATC, then an AI transmission (or ATC to AI) starts: this can be avoided by sending the PF3 PTT hotkey just before the FO transmission.

b) FO starts talking into a playing AI transmission. This cannot be avoided by the PF3 PTT hotkey. MCE should find a way to detect wether an AI transmission is playing and wait until it is finished - and only then send the PF3 PTT hotkey and start talking.

 

2. IFR clearance, Startup Clearance, Pushback and Startup clearance

MCE seems not to differentiate between these three, though they are (optional – can be chosen before connecting PF3) different requests in PF3.

 

Subsequently the FO says „Clearance Delivery...“ when requesting Pushback and Startup even though already on Ground frequency.

 

3. Name of destination airport

Very nice to have the FO say the name and not just the ICAO code!

 

In my case it was „Vienna / Schwechat“.

Apart from his problems pronouncing „Schwechat“ correctly ;-) he (TTS voice) said „Vienna slash Schwechat“.

I don't want the „slash“, so: Where does MCE take the airport names from? Can I just delete the „/“ there? Or is it an internal list in MCE? Can MCE perhaps automatically replace the „/“ (or „-“ etc.) with a "space" when pronouncing the name?

 

4. Timing of responses

I have set the „PerCharSpeedDuration“ settings so that the timing works quite well for me in most situations.

 

PfePerCharSpeedDuration=55 //45

MceFOPerCharSpeedDuration=120 //30

 

There are some special situations though where a significantly longer PfePerCharSpeedDuration would be needed. These are the taxi clearances as well as the departure and approach clearances. This apparently is because PF3 gives these clearances in a quite low speed (probably to make them understandable better). It is particularly noticeable with very long taxi clearances.

So the PfePerCharSpeedDuration should be automatically increased (maybe by 50 %) for these clearances, if possible.

 

5. Readback of takeoff clearance

The FO did not automatically („you have ATC“ was set) readback the takeoff clearance. When I asked „reply to ATC“ he repeated the taxi clearance again.

 

That might have to do with the fact that I did not wait for PF3 to hand me off to Tower but switched to Tower manually before asking the FO „request takeoff clearance“.

 

6. „Dialing ...“ after handoff

Is there a way to make the the FO dial in the new frequency silently? Without saying „dialing ...“? This phrase sometimes seems like a part of the readback of the handoff and is a little annoying to me.

 

7. Check-in with new facility

I am not sure if „as cleared“ is the correct phraseology here.

The original PF3 phraseology is: „<callsign> (is with you) at Flightlevel … / out of Flightlevel … for Flightlevel ...“

 

8. Handoff to Tower for landing

Contacting Tower (immediately after "contact Tower on ... when on final") comes too early. It should be automatically postponed until established on final, if that is possible. If not possible it should be left to a request by the user „Request landing clearance“.

 

9. Requesting taxi to gate

The FO did not automatically contact Ground for taxi to gate. He had dialed in the Ground frequency correctly though after handoff from Tower.

I could not make him do it neither because when asking „request taxi clearance“ MCE apparently sent hotkey 0 (taxi to runway) and not hotkey 5.

I finally manually pressed hotkey 5 which worked, but leads to:

 

10. MCE-FO voice when manually pressing a hotkey

Would it be possible to have the MCE-FO voice when manually pressing a hotkey? There might be the need to do that should anything go wrong or for some special requests.

 

11. Picking up a similar callsign

While taxiing to the gate the FO picked up a „Lufthansa 234 is clear of the runway“ and responded to that.

We were Lufthansa 134 and Lufthansa 234 landed shortly after us (coincidentally!).

This might also be a consequence of 9. of course, because the FO was still waiting for the „clear of the runway“ announcement and the similarity of the callsigns was just a coincidence.

 

Thanks for valuable feedback. Will see what can be done. Meanwhile, try deleting the "McePerChar..." and "PfePerChar..." to see what you get with default (which was worked on in latest update).

Expect a newer revision this week.

 

[RALF9636 1,966]

Update after another flight:
 

Quote

 

4. Timing of responses

I have set the „PerCharSpeedDuration“ settings so that the timing works quite well for me in most situations.

 

PfePerCharSpeedDuration=55 //45

MceFOPerCharSpeedDuration=120 //30

 

There are some special situations though where a significantly longer PfePerCharSpeedDuration would be needed. These are the taxi clearances as well as the departure and approach clearances. This apparently is because PF3 gives these clearances in a quite low speed (probably to make them understandable better). It is particularly noticeable with very long taxi clearances.

So the PfePerCharSpeedDuration should be automatically increased (maybe by 50 %) for these clearances, if possible.

 

Using the default values (by deleting the entries) works fine - except for the special situations mentioned above. In these situations the timing is too short.

 

Quote

 

5. Readback of takeoff clearance

The FO did not automatically („you have ATC“ was set) readback the takeoff clearance. When I asked „reply to ATC“ he repeated the taxi clearance again.

 

That might have to do with the fact that I did not wait for PF3 to hand me off to Tower but switched to Tower manually before asking the FO „request takeoff clearance“.

 

This time I waited for PF3-Ground to hand me off to Tower and my FO readback the takeoff clearance properly. So apparently a problem when manually switching to Tower.

 

Quote

 

7. Check-in with new facility

I am not sure if „as cleared“ is the correct phraseology here.

The original PF3 phraseology is: „<callsign> (is with you) at Flightlevel … / out of Flightlevel … for Flightlevel ...“

 

Same for "just airborne" - never heard that in PF3.

 

Quote

 

11. Picking up a similar callsign

While taxiing to the gate the FO picked up a „Lufthansa 234 is clear of the runway“ and responded to that.

We were Lufthansa 134 and Lufthansa 234 landed shortly after us (coincidentally!).

This might also be a consequence of 9. of course, because the FO was still waiting for the „clear of the runway“ announcement and the similarity of the callsigns was just a coincidence.

 

It happened again on my return flight as Lufthansa 135. The FO responded to calls for Lufthansa 182 several times.

 

12. Greetings by time of day

"Good evening" etc. seems to depend on the System Time. I would prefer if it would depend on the sim local time, if possible.

 

 

[RALF9636 1,966]

I made a flight in "I have ATC"-mode and gave single commands to my FO to make ATC requests/responds.

That worked pretty nice - avoiding the false responds to calls for other Lufthansa flights and the too early contact to Tower for landing.

 

I did not succeed in making my FO ask for landing clearance though. I said "request landing clearance" but he requested "we like to starter engage engine". I tried that several times - everytime with that result. I had to manually press hotkey 1 to get landing clearance.

 

One other thing that I found a little annoying: I had to separately command every frequency change.

 

It would be nice to have a mode in which I have ATC but the FO nevertheless automatically handles the COM frequency changes. Similar to the VCP mode 1 in PF3.

 

[FS++ 709]

On 5/24/2017 at 9:01 PM, RALF9636 said:

I made a flight in "I have ATC"-mode and gave single commands to my FO to make ATC requests/responds.

That worked pretty nice - avoiding the false responds to calls for other Lufthansa flights and the too early contact to Tower for landing.

 

I did not succeed in making my FO ask for landing clearance though. I said "request landing clearance" but he requested "we like to starter engage engine". I tried that several times - everytime with that result. I had to manually press hotkey 1 to get landing clearance.

 

One other thing that I found a little annoying: I had to separately command every frequency change.

 

It would be nice to have a mode in which I have ATC but the FO nevertheless automatically handles the COM frequency changes. Similar to the VCP mode 1 in PF3.

 

The airport name comes from assigned flight plan.

Here is the new patch: Download link

Manually replace 4 files. No need for previous patch.

Most issues that were reported so far have been ironed out.

FO should now ignore AI transmissions.