Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
scottb613

FDE Input - Good - Bad - or - Ugly ?

Recommended Posts

I hate it when that happens. :angry:


7700K@4.8 GHz - MSI Z270-A Pro - 4x8Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 @3000 MHz - ZOTAC GTX 1080 TI @1683 MHz - 58" Panasonic TC-58AX800U 4K - Saitek X-55 'Rhino', ProFlight Pedals - TrackIR 5 - W10 Home 64 - P3D v4 - XP11 - MSFS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, scottb613 said:

Hi Folks,

Figured I was due to bite the bullet - it's been a while - so I went all in... Tested for around 2 hours last night - some buyers remorse... While as always - the visuals are beyond criticism - the sounds seem poor and I don't care for them very much... While there may be many good things about the FDE - matching book numbers and such - the FDE in my humble opinion lacks "soul"... It just doesn't convey the feeling of flight the MilViz FDE does - I'll leave it to the more technical to critique in detail... I don't see myself getting a great deal of use out of it - your mileage may vary... Back to patiently waiting on the new MilViz C310...

Regards,
Scott 

Scott, Very well stated; I'm with you in 100%. While I plan to stay with the Milviz C310 long term, I think you should be prepared to wait for the updated Milviz C310 for a very long time.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry Scott.....  Seems thats this is how the thing works with carelebo...  Lack of soul..  God words....  Hope the new milviz erase this bad taste.... 

Redgars. 

RB 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Folks,

Thanks for the responses...

:biggrin:

 

I truly strive to be unbiased with my feedback... OK - I loaded it up again today for some pattern work - and - this time - I swapped out the sounds with those from the MilViz model - and it seems perhaps I may have been a bit harsh - LOL - it seems to fly "better" today... Can a decent sound set change our perception that much ??? The original sounds are still poor though - no question about that... I still prefer the MilViz FDE by far - but - if I didn't happen to have the MilViz model - I may have rated this as "decent"... LOL - I am comparing it to the best Light Twin FDE I've ever seen - after all... Anyway - I'll do some more testing and post any new revelations I may have...

Regards,

Scott


imageproxy.png.c7210bb70e999d98cfd3e77d7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Folks,

Messed around with this plane again this evening and I have to admit it is growing on me... Again - the biggest detriment is the sound package and once replaced - it's really stepped up a notch - again just shows how much other factors influence our perspective... I'm still going to get the MilViz but this just may fill the gap... The other thing I noticed about my initial testing is I didn't have my Chase Plane settings set the same - matching the settings helped a bit too... I'd certainly be interested in hearing others compare the two FDE's... It inspired enough confidence to buy the Cheyenne as well - increasing my Carenado/Alabeo stable from (3) to (5).... I'll continue testing - haven't tried any abnormal events yet - but I'll update this thread for those interested as I do...

Les - if you give me some verbiage for what the fuel tank issue is - I'll be glad to submit a ticket as well...

Regards,

Scott


imageproxy.png.c7210bb70e999d98cfd3e77d7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, scottb613 said:

Can a decent sound set change our perception that much ??? 

Definitely yes! IMO sound is the most underrated item in most flightsim add-ons. You are sitting in front of a small 2 dimensional screen with a tiny viewing angle and no motion but sound is 360deg and can be very realistic. Flightsimming has to do a lot with immersion and sound definitely plays a vital part.

Carenado used to have great sounds in the beginning (that's why I still like their 340 a lot) but the newer one seem to have a rather generic mix of available sound files.

An exception is their Seminole which is very nice, one the reason might be as well the (compared to newer Carenado planes) very nice sound set.

 

 However it's still an immersion and realism killer, and IMO one of the worst bugs that FSX and P3D don't simulate the sound of prop planes with constant speed props correctly!!!

 

Concerning the FDE. To me it seems to be slightly more accurate concerning cruise performance and handling than the Milviz 310.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, scottb613 said:

Les - if you give me some verbiage for what the fuel tank issue is - I'll be glad to submit a ticket as well...

I'm no expert as it relates to the FSX engine logic, but as I understand it, Cessna twin fuel logic is quite contrary to FSX in that in Cessna world, the mains are the tip-tanks and the aux tanks are those in the wings. Unless some magic is performed, as that done by Milviz for the C310, the standard FSX fuel logic will apply and thus a departure from realism. I can't locate the exact post but I believe Bill (N4GIX) described a clever process by using the term "External 1" and "External 2"  for the fuel system work the way it is supposed to. Hopefully, he can chime in here with more info.

Proposed service ticket logic:

Request:

Can Alabeo re-program the Cessna C310R fuel management system to reflect the tip-tanks as the mains (50 gallons) and the wing tanks as the aux tanks (31.5 gallons)? In addition, can Alabeo model the fuel system to only use fuel from the appropriate tank as selected and as previously described?  This change will correct the aircraft's fuel management system and significantly add to the realistic qualities of this aircraft. Thank you in advance for your attention to this important detail.

Good Luck Scott and thanks for all your efforts.

Les Parson

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Paul,

Makes sense - thanks for the response... Yeah - I recall the Seminole was VERY well received by the community and all things being equal - if the sounds were a notch above their normal - that explains a lot... I was truly surprised at how much they impacted my opinion - amazed really... One of my favorite biz-jets is the Flysimware Lear 35A (yet another major improvement being released this weekend for an old but truly fantastic plane - now THAT's support) - and if I recall correctly - they included a TSS sound pack with the model and it sounds so good... Looking back at my first post - I was a tad miffed while evaluating the 310 after hearing the sounds - which with 20/20 hindsight explains a lot... Had a good flight with this bird into Rifle CO last night - which I fully enjoyed...

Hi Les,

Thanks - I'll open my first Alabeo ticket and request what you posted with a strong suggestion that the sounds should be far better on a $35.00 product... Appreciate the help...

Regards,

Scott


imageproxy.png.c7210bb70e999d98cfd3e77d7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Folks,

Ticket submitted:

Quote

Hi Folks,

This is my very first Alabeo purchase...

Two issues I'd like to report:

1) Can Alabeo re-program the Cessna C310R fuel management system to reflect the tip-tanks as the mains (50 gallons) and the wing tanks as the aux tanks (31.5 gallons)? In addition, can Alabeo model the fuel system to only use fuel from the appropriate tank as selected and as previously described? This change will correct the aircraft's fuel management system and significantly add to the realistic qualities of this aircraft.

2) The sound set included is pretty bad - so much so - after loading the plane up - I was seriously disappointed and experienced buyers remorse - it affected my whole opinion of the product in a negative manner... Then I swapped out your sound set - for the old one I had on the MilViz 310 and it completely changed my whole opinion on your product... I like it now... The sound set is just as important as the model or FDE - the initial one included does not do your product justice - request you revisit that aspect of your product and look for improvements...

Thanks for your consideration...

Regards,
Scott

Regards,
Scott


imageproxy.png.c7210bb70e999d98cfd3e77d7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FDE is very subjective. So are sounds.

But sounds are definitely what makes the experience more gratifying/soulful. That said, sounds are also the most difficult for developers to do right, and actually record well. To do the sounds right...   you have to record both channels separately for stereo, leaving all room or environmental acoustics and loop ticks/phasing/artifacts reduced as much as possible. Real Air did this the best with the Duke and Legacy. Most developers are very poor at this, Alabeo and Carenado are somewhat inconsistent...some planes are decent some are terrible. I'd say thats the case for their products in general...just inconsistent, except for the visuals...  but then again, they are inconsistent there too because sometimes they pay attention to the polygon count, and sometimes they seemingly dont care about it.   I respect a developer that considers FPS the most, followed by immersion. If it has one without the other I dont like the product.  Ant's does this well. Real Air almost does this well--the Duke and Legacy take some FPS hits..their older products were the best--Spitfire, SF260. Among the Alabeo line, their Saratoga TC is the best, good balance of both immersion and FPS.

That said, from the above discussion, what I really wanna know is does this 310 perform like the B58/A36/F33/V35 in terms of FPS? If not, I'm not interested.  Alabeo was started to be the "Lite" line from Carenado. The first 5-ish products have amazing FPS and visuals...take the Extra 300, Cutlass, great stuff. Lately though they have become bloated. I have be reading that this C310 has a "lite" VC or model, and hope that they are back to their FPS greatness. Comments? 

P.S.

Mil-viz 310 does the customizable gauge thing very well! Which I sorely miss on most modern developer's planes. Why cant WE choose what the avionics are? In the real world you get an STC, and throw in a Garmin if you want, throw in whatever radio/GPS/ADF/radar you name it. Developers should all include a generic light map feature (the driving issue why most dont do customizable panels anymore) that keeps the avionics bay non-discriminatory ;) And also include a flat 3D VC without knobs, so you can put in whatever you want. I miss this feature from the early Carenados!  I have heavily modified light maps on the B58 to fit my favorite freeware gauges, since you can remove the 3d knobs.

CARENADO/ALABEO PLEASE BRING BACK THE REMOVABLE 3D KNOBS FEATURE!!!

Half of the fun of the old FS games was that you could design stuff yourself--- if any of you remember one version of MSFS where they actually had a plane editor included (before GMAX)....  LONG LONG time ago.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi V...

Just addressing your FPS inquiry - the package comes with both "normal" and "lite" models - I've only used the "lite" models which seem to have more than enough detail for me... While I don't have any real quantifiable metrics - I'm running an old Sandy 2700K @ 4.7Ghz - with all the usual suspects as far as addons go - I didn't notice any lag associated with using this model... Seemed to behave on par with everything else I use... 

Regards,

Scott


imageproxy.png.c7210bb70e999d98cfd3e77d7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, violingineer said:

P.S.

Mil-viz 310 does the customizable gauge thing very well! Which I sorely miss on most modern developer's planes. Why cant WE choose what the avionics are? In the real world you get an STC, and throw in a Garmin if you want, throw in whatever radio/GPS/ADF/radar you name it. Developers should all include a generic light map feature (the driving issue why most dont do customizable panels anymore) that keeps the avionics bay non-discriminatory ;) And also include a flat 3D VC without knobs, so you can put in whatever you want. I miss this feature from the early Carenados!  I have heavily modified light maps on the B58 to fit my favorite freeware gauges, since you can remove the 3d knobs.

CARENADO/ALABEO PLEASE BRING BACK THE REMOVABLE 3D KNOBS FEATURE!!!

Half of the fun of the old FS games was that you could design stuff yourself--- if any of you remember one version of MSFS where they actually had a plane editor included (before GMAX)....  LONG LONG time ago.

 

 

I have begged for just that for years and to no avail.


My computer:  ABS Gladiator Gaming PC featuring an Intel 10700F CPU, EVGA CLC-240 AIO cooler, Asus Tuf Gaming B460M Plus motherboard, 16GB DDR4-3000 RAM, 1 TB NVMe SSD, EVGA RTX3070 FTW3 video card.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Folks,

Concur - today any plane should really include at a minimum options for the two F1 GTN's - the two F1 GNS's - and the MilViz REX Wx Radar... I get tired of seeing a GTN 750 in every plane... At least there are some new crew members in some of their planes - finally !!!

Regards,

Scott 


imageproxy.png.c7210bb70e999d98cfd3e77d7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SOUND- It can be done right with constant V props.. everyone uses the wrong coding. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/5/2017 at 8:21 AM, J35OE said:

Hi Scott, as it's apparently inappropriate to say anything positive about Alabeo/Carendo planes in these forums I've sent you a pm ;)

With the exception of the Real Air Duke(s) and occasionally the Milviz 310R, my hangar is full of Alabeo/Carenado aircraft. Eye candy is a tolerable trade off for a few mislabeled switches and less than absolute real aircraft flight dynamics. Alenado 310R with milvix sounds and a few Bert Pieke and self tweaks gets the most hours. The Flyawaysim and flight1 planes stay on the ramp. It's great to have choices. "One man's treasure........"


 2 Monitors, 240G SSD.FSX:Steam with UTX USA Scenery, ORBX Base, Buildings, Airports, NorCAL, Steam addon- Airports, Trees, Milviz310R, Alabeo310R, Flight1 GTN750/650, Carenado- TBM850, Baron, Arrow, V35, F33, C441, 421C, Phenom 100, Premier 1A, RA Duke B60 V2, RA Duke Turbine V2,  Active Sky Next always running real WX. Skyvector 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
  • Donation Goals

    AVSIM's 2020 Fundraising Goal

    Donate to our annual general fundraising goal. This donation keeps our doors open and providing you service 24 x 7 x 365. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. We reset this goal every new year for the following year's goal.


    50%
    $12,670.00 of $25,000.00 Donate Now
×
×
  • Create New...