scottb613

FDE Input - Good - Bad - or - Ugly ?

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Hi Folks,

OK - she is a sexy beast - looking for comments comparing the flight dynamics of this aircraft - to my favorite light twin in FS - the MilViz C310 (a Bernt Stolle masterpiece)... Obviously - this one is winning on the visuals and my MilViz version has been down hard in need of patches for a long time... Here's hoping they might be in the same neighborhood with FDE's...

Any input appreciated...

:wink:

Regards,

Scott

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For a point on the milviz version, the plane have been done using a real model of a member of Milviz company. Recreating every aspect in the plane, the FDE it's done like you said by BS, but having tested and tested and tested the plane (some years ago I have been talked with BS over email about this plane and the FDE)  indeed one of the best FDE done for a Fs. 

On the other hand the alabeo version have crisp textures, details, eyes candy's, food for the eyes over the old milviz........ I don't think that BS it's still making the FDE for Carenado beo......  

So let's wait and see...............  The first looks on this 310..... 

Redgars 

RB 

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Unlike the Milviz, the fuel system isn't modeled correctly; that being with Cessna twins the "mains" being the tips tanks and the "Aux" tanks in the wings. The fuel flow on the LBS/HR gauge didn't seem to reflect the full range like it should. It handles ok, I suppose. I didn't like the engine sounds so I swapped them for the Sky Song version. The cockpit sounds are good; realizing all of this quite subjective. I'm not one to insist on the GTN 750 for everything with wings, so no comment (or interest) from me.

Overall, the screwed up fuel system is a non-starter for me. Nobody seems to care about this as there was no response to queries about the fuel system prior to release.

Les Parson

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Hi Les,

As big a critic I am of Alabeo/Carenado - - - if you do submit tickets - they do seem to respond - although it might not necessarily be the answer you want... I've submitted a bunch - LOL - I keep asking them to stop including that horrible Avidyne gauge and to add the REX Wx Radar... If it's wrong - just suggest we start getting tickets in early...

Thanks for responding...

Regards,
Scott

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Hi Scott, as it's apparently inappropriate to say anything positive about Alabeo/Carendo planes in these forums I've sent you a pm ;)

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Hi Paul,

LOL - checking and thanks !

Hi RB,

Thanks as well !!!

:wink:

Regards,

Scott

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I suppose you could swap out the FDE and use Milviz if you have it. Some of use did that with Carenado Cheyenne II and the DA Cheyenne and it works great? Just a thought?

Cheers

Martin 

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I wouldn't sweat the FDE.  That's something that can be changed by the user quite easily, and changed to anything you want.  If you want the 310 to fly like the Space Shuttle, you can do it through the .cfg and .air files.  With Carenado or any other developer, about the only thing you can't change is the model.  Carenado makes really good models.  We gripe about their systems a great deal, but they are largely xml based.  So...if we don't like them, we can change them.  If Carenado used .dll files like many other developers, we'd be stuck with whatever we got.  Many of the Carenado system problems come not from their ineptitude, but from the limitations of the simulator.  They choose to code within the simulation without external engines.  That's why we get fabulous looking models for $35.   

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In this forum one can say something that like or not about a developer, this is not a dictatorship forum......  So if the alabeo threeten it's a bad plane for X or Y reason the best it's express The frustration......  

Swap the FDE it's not simply at all.....  There's a lines in the aircraft.cfg and the. Mdl......  For example the engines behavior can be used of Milviz to alabeo simply copy and paste the engine parameters of the archive...  w and balance too...  Speeds..  Etc...  

I'm happy with milviz three ten...  So pass on this crispy shine textured plane....  And just wait for the turbo Commander 690 Carenado....  (Commander lover) 

RB 

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Without commenting on the ethics of replacing one manufacturer's FDE with another's, there are a couple of ways it may not be satisfactory. For example,  if the model origins are different  (and there's no reason the should be the same nor is there an easy way to alter this), then a straight swap just won't deliver. Also, if the designer has captured some aspect of the FDE in code rather than the aircraft.cfg and air files (I know for a fact that some Milviz aircraft use this technique), then those characteristics won't be maintained.

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I suspect it works with some planes better than others, depending on what you want to change. Luckily most planes don't need any mods to the FDE but a few do. TweakAircraft lets you connect the .air file with the .cfg, so if you make a change in the .air file and it needs a change or entry in the .cfg it highlights it. But would agree probably better to leave alone unless you really know what you're doing.

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Yup, swapping .air files and .cfg parameters between models is usually a really BAD idea.  Although editing FDEs is definitely doable with the right tools... I would not exactly call it "easy".

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While blindly swapping files has little chance of being successful, editing .air and .cfg files is as easy as typing on your keyboard.  The .air files can be manipulated directly with AirEd or even better AirWizEd or AAM.  Knowing what to edit and what it all means is where easy ends and requires some knowledge of aerodynamics and engine theory.  If you have a degree in Aeronautical or Aerospace Engineering, it's pretty easy.  If you don't it's not so easy, but it is doable with some reading and research.  Aerospace Engineers like to make it look hard with terms like CDo, CLalpha, CYbeta, CMalpha, Dihedral Effect, and Spiral Mode.  AAM actually explains many of those terms as you peruse a particular FDE, and does it in layman's terms.  Having an aerodynamics background helps, but anyone can easily manipulate the files and with some diligence, do it in a productive fashion.       

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Hi Folks,

I'm not the brightest or dumbest guy out there - most things in FS I've been able to figure out - modeling/texturing/scenery development - if not just from sheer will and persistence - - - I have spent some time editing air files and my experience wasn't easy... Change one thing - you need to load up the plane and test it in multiple flight regimes to insure it's all working as expected - many of the parameters are so interrelated... I spent countless hours trying to fix the MilViz B55 FDE as it definitely needed work - with some success but not getting what I really wanted... I was using Air Wrench along with the tools Bill mentioned... My hats off to those of you who have mastered this task - as the FDE makes or breaks a plane in my book... Bill - if you happen do the same for this as you did for the Cheyenne - please include me on that list as well...

Thanks all - for the responses...

Regards,

Scott  

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Hi Folks,

Figured I was due to bite the bullet - it's been a while - so I went all in... Tested for around 2 hours last night - some buyers remorse... While as always - the visuals are beyond criticism - the sounds seem poor and I don't care for them very much... While there may be many good things about the FDE - matching book numbers and such - the FDE in my humble opinion lacks "soul"... It just doesn't convey the feeling of flight the MilViz FDE does - I'll leave it to the more technical to critique in detail... I don't see myself getting a great deal of use out of it - your mileage may vary... Back to patiently waiting on the new MilViz C310...

Regards,
Scott 

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