Ray Proudfoot

Why is P3D handling VAS so poorly?

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I was led to believe that P3D handled VAS far better than FSX. Well I'm not convinced and I hope the attached image proves my point.

graph_06052017_1454.png?dl=0

I'm using P3D v3.4, FS Labs ConcordeX and two Aerosoft Airports - Mega Airport Oslo and Heathrow Xtended. My P3D settings are in line with those recommended by Rob Ainscough in his support document. Hardware in my sig.

On loading a saved flight with Concorde cold and dark at Oslo the remaining VAS is around 1200Mb. That fine. However after passing FL260 I've past the Norwegian coast heading out into the North Sea and accelerating to Mach 2. I would expect to see P3D recover a reasonable amount of VAS but a measly 100Mb is recovered.

As I descend I turn towards England and you can see VAS increase further and then as I approach London it goes as high as 3700-3800 and warnings are issued. However, the graphics don't break up as is often the case in FSX when the sim is about to OOM and I manage to land and park with just 300Mb remaining.

Now whilst P3D seems to be able to run with very little VAS why does it not recover more when I'm out over the North Sea? Is there some secret settings I have missed that handles it better than this?

I had 500-600Mb of VAS remaining with FSX:SP2 than P3D as I approached Heathrow. How can that be right?

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I imagine you didn't see all the posts about the ndivia drivers??  

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2 minutes ago, tooting said:

I imagine you didn't see all the posts about the ndivia drivers??  

I have seen discussion about possible VAS leakage with some drivers but hasn't that been solved with the latest? I'm running 381.89.

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What are your settings?  I know you say you went off Rob's guide but Rob has a a different machine and settings need to be tailored to your own PC.

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Ray, with your drivers , your P3D settings and your addons you experience poor VAS handling.

Orbx Vector , PMDG 777 and perhaps some other addon aircraft have a big influence on VAS usage.

You have to try finding a balance that is working for you.

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1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

However, the graphics don't break up as is often the case in FSX when the sim is about to OOM and I manage to land and park with just 300Mb remaining.

300MB left after parking the aircraft at Heathrow is just wonderful... I don´t get the problem...
You´re flying a detailed aircraft from a very detailed airport (Oslo) into the area of London Heathrow which is very well known VAS-killer. I would understand if you complained about getting an OOM but leaving your virtual Concorde with 300MB VAS still available after approaching Heathrow is what I would truly call a happy end.

However, if you´re really unhappy just because you don´t have tons of free VAS after anyway succesfully approaching EGLL extended I´m not getting tired to recommend following these 5 major points:

  1. Disable Hyperthreading...
  2. Use GeForce driver 381.65 or above (! clean install !)
  3. Disable shadercache and multithreading in the Nvidia driversettings (control panel or inspector).
  4. Leave "OPTIMIZE_PARTS=0" in your cfg.
  5. Make use of "ENABLE_MEMORY_OPTIMIZATION=1" in the cfg in the GRAPHICS section.

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Hi Ray,

Try the 382.05 driver set.

I've been fooling around this afternoon in P3D for 2-3 hours (wife and I enjoyed the sun on a day trip out yesterday so I earned a 'day off' :biggrin:). During that time I monitored VAS usage with projectFLY's clever little VAS utility while jumping around randomly all over the globe. Previously this would be a strict no no without mandatory P3D restarts in between flights to reset the VAS. This time I survived throughout and VAS barely climbed above 3GB!

I ended up under autopilot enjoying a flight above an amazing cloudscape while cruising south from Welshpool in Wales. Here's a screen capture from the flight:

orFt8Wz.png

I have to say I'm impressed with these drivers but for one reservation: the frequent non-appearance of the NCP item in the mouse right-click context menu which is a nuisance. I thought it had something to do with the ASUS AISuite III but I've got that working correctly now and the NCP problem persists. It's possible that it may not happen to you.

Give it a try, you never know!

Regards,

Mike

 

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57 minutes ago, sultanofswing said:

What are your settings?  I know you say you went off Rob's guide but Rob has a a different machine and settings need to be tailored to your own PC.

I'm not going to paste multiple screenshots of my settings. Suffice to say they are close to Rob's high-end PC. I have changed Autogen from Very Dense through Dense to Normal and Sparse. The remaining VAS doesn't change that much.

Frame rates are not the problem. It's the inability of P3D to release VAS once away from a built-up area. The remaining VAS hardly ever increases even when over ocean. That just isn't right. It appears to still have the airport scenery and 150 Ai aircraft in its memory.

I am currently conducting a test to see how P3D handles VAS. Slewed up to 1500ft at Heathrow in Concorde and turned to 180. Slewing due south at 320kts. No change in VAS as I crossed the English Channel.

I'll perform the same test in FSX and compare results.

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Ray, 

I feel your pain!

No matter how we sugar coat it: P3D.3x's underlying technology is 12+ years old - that is the middle ages when it comes to today's technology. The two simply don't match, for getting the best out of it. All we do is fiddle and diddle to make it work.....

Hope you find some good settings as a compromise!

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15 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Ray, with your drivers , your P3D settings and your addons you experience poor VAS handling.

Orbx Vector , PMDG 777 and perhaps some other addon aircraft have a big influence on VAS usage.

You have to try finding a balance that is working for you.

I have downloaded the 376.33 drivers to try tomorrow. Those are the last 'good' drivers before these VAS problems started.

Concorde consumes around 500Mb of VAS. I don't have Orbx Vector or the 777. Just FTX Global, UTX Europe and Concorde. UTX Europe consumes around 300Mb.

But I had these products in FSX SP2 and VAS remaining was much higher. That's why I suspect P3D rather than drivers.

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2 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I have downloaded the 376.33 drivers to try tomorrow.

 


:mo_tt_mata:

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7 minutes ago, Schlotterknie said:

300MB left after parking the aircraft at Heathrow is just wonderful... I don´t get the problem...
You´re flying a detailed aircraft from a very detailed airport (Oslo) into the area of London Heathrow which is very well known VAS-killer. I would understand if you complained about getting an OOM but leaving your virtual Concorde with 300MB VAS still available after approaching Heathrow is what I would truly call a happy end.

However, if you´re really unhappy just because you don´t have tons of free VAS after anyway succesfully approaching EGLL extended I´m not getting tired to recommend following these 5 major points:

  1. Disable Hyperthreading...
  2. Use GeForce driver 381.65 or above (! clean install !)
  3. Disable shadercache and multithreading in the Nvidia driversettings (control panel or inspector).
  4. Leave "OPTIMIZE_PARTS=0" in your cfg.
  5. Make use of "ENABLE_MEMORY_OPTIMIZATION=1" in the cfg in the GRAPHICS section.

I appreciate what you're saying but I had around 500Mb remaining with FSX:SP2. I would have expected P3D to be better than FSX.

I'll check which of those suggestions I have already done. I'm reluctant to disable Hyperthreading and will try different drivers with the same test. I don't use Nvidia Inspector at all.

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1 minute ago, Schlotterknie said:


:mo_tt_mata:

I'm not an emoji expert. What does that mean?

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11 minutes ago, Cruachan said:

Hi Ray,

Try the 382.05 driver set.

I've been fooling around this afternoon in P3D for 2-3 hours (wife and I enjoyed the sun on a day trip out yesterday so I earned a 'day off' :biggrin:). During that time I monitored VAS usage with projectFLY's clever little VAS utility while jumping around randomly all over the globe. Previously this would be a strict no no without mandatory several P3D restarts to reset the VAS. This time I survived throughout and VAS barely climbed above 3GB!

I ended up under autopilot enjoying a flight above an amazing cloudscape while cruising south from Welshpool in Wales. here's a screen capture from the flight:

I have to say I'm impressed with these drivers but for one reservation: the frequent non-appearance of the NCP item in the mouse right-click context menu which is a nuisance. I thought it had something to do with ASUS AISuite III but I've got that working correctly now and the NCP problem persists. It's possible that it may not happen to you.

 

Regards,

Mike

 

Thanks Mike. I'm on those at present. That aircraft is not going to affect your VAS usage much. :wink:

I need to have a consistent test with just P3D settings or Nvidia drivers changing. That way I can properly judge the impact of any change.

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1 minute ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I'll check which of those suggestions I have already done. I'm reluctant to disable Hyperthreading and will try different drivers with the same test. I don't use Nvidia Inspector at all.


You won´t get better performance with FSX/P3d keeping it enabled. That more than 10 years old FSX/P3D-engine just doesn´t know how to make use of it. Even with a modern, properly optimized application the performance gain of HT is to neglect. HT is not much more than a marketing gag by Intel. I really recommend you at least to try it, it´s just a switch in your BIOS. Takes a minute do change it. Disabled HT saves 300-500MB of VAS on my system with absolutely 0 performance loss.

To disable your shadercache and multithreading of your driver (saves about 100MB) you don´t need to install NV inspector. You can do that quick and easy with the Nvidia control panel and it´s also without perfomance loss.

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If I can suggest, when flying complex tubeliners like PMDG, turn off the ORBX regions, they are VAS guzzlers. Use them for GA only or short flights and just live with Global, LC and a minimalist Vector. It still all looks great and you will save a ton of VAS on longer flights.

 

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Ray I feel your pain trust me I do.

I was experiencing the ndivia drivers leaks so went back to .33  

I was getting much better vas usage from that but getting ntddll errors.

Like the guy said above it doesnt matter how you cook it, P3d is a awfully coded sim from years ago.

Ive just updated with the new drivers and will do a test flight down to barcelona.

Keep your chin up mate, its frustracting as hell.. but its a common issue these bloody drivers

 

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2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Thanks Mike. I'm on those at present. That aircraft is not going to affect your VAS usage much. :wink:

I need to have a consistent test with just P3D settings or Nvidia drivers changing. That way I can properly judge the impact of any change.

Hi Ray,

The point I was trying to make is that despite my moving between multiple situations of varying complexities and scenery densities P3D was doing a good job of releasing VAS memory that was no longer in use. I could not do that before in one session as something in the Nvidia driver structure had changed after 376.33 to interfere with P3D's purging routines. LM have been discussing the matter with Nvidia and, if this afternoon's experience has any weight, I have to assume that it has had some effect (hopefully I'm right about this) in convincing them that the problem did exist...not that you are likely to read anything from Nvidia confirming the issue was being caused by their drivers.

Regards,

Mike

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3 hours ago, Schlotterknie said:

300MB left after parking the aircraft at Heathrow is just wonderful... I don´t get the problem...
You´re flying a detailed aircraft from a very detailed airport (Oslo) into the area of London Heathrow which is very well known VAS-killer. I would understand if you complained about getting an OOM but leaving your virtual Concorde with 300MB VAS still available after approaching Heathrow is what I would truly call a happy end.

However, if you´re really unhappy just because you don´t have tons of free VAS after anyway succesfully approaching EGLL extended I´m not getting tired to recommend following these 5 major points:

  1. Disable Hyperthreading...
  2. Use GeForce driver 381.65 or above (! clean install !)
  3. Disable shadercache and multithreading in the Nvidia driversettings (control panel or inspector).
  4. Leave "OPTIMIZE_PARTS=0" in your cfg.
  5. Make use of "ENABLE_MEMORY_OPTIMIZATION=1" in the cfg in the GRAPHICS section.

 

Ive just reinstalled with new drivers.. and followed the above advice.. no OOM leak for me on my 980ti.  I owe you a beer mate

  • Upvote 1

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3 hours ago, Schlotterknie said:


You won´t get better performance with FSX/P3d keeping it enabled. That more than 10 years old FSX/P3D-engine just doesn´t know how to make use of it. Even with a modern, properly optimized application the performance gain of HT is to neglect. HT is not much more than a marketing gag by Intel. I really recommend you at least to try it, it´s just a switch in your BIOS. Takes a minute do change it. Disabled HT saves 300-500MB of VAS on my system with absolutely 0 performance loss.

To disable your shadercache and multithreading of your driver (saves about 100MB) you don´t need to install NV inspector. You can do that quick and easy with the Nvidia control panel and it´s also without perfomance loss.

I have never disabled Hyperthreading since I've had this PC and I don't understand its relevance to VAS. Rob Ainsclough's excellent document makes no reference to it. Why if it's going to save VAS?

I may try it but only after I have exhausted other possibilities. Thanks for the tip.

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3 hours ago, Midnight Music said:

If I can suggest, when flying complex tubeliners like PMDG, turn off the ORBX regions, they are VAS guzzlers. Use them for GA only or short flights and just live with Global, LC and a minimalist Vector. It still all looks great and you will save a ton of VAS on longer flights.

 

Lee,

I don't fly 'tubeliners'. I fly Concorde. I have no PMDG aircraft. I have no ORBX regions or Vector - just FTX Global which has never been a VAS eater even with FSX.

It seems to me the only way to reduce VAS is to lower scenery settings but I was led to believe P3D was far better at handling complex scenery and autogen than FSX. I'm not convinced.

 

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3 hours ago, tooting said:

Ray I feel your pain trust me I do.

I was experiencing the ndivia drivers leaks so went back to .33  

I was getting much better vas usage from that but getting ntddll errors.

Like the guy said above it doesnt matter how you cook it, P3d is a awfully coded sim from years ago.

Ive just updated with the new drivers and will do a test flight down to barcelona.

Keep your chin up mate, its frustracting as hell.. but its a common issue these bloody drivers

 

Thanks Pete. I thought P3D was better at handling VAS than FSX. It seems to be better in the respect that having bottomed out around 250-300Mb it doesn't actually run out. I have flown from Aerosoft Heathrow to a 3rd party Dublin both of which are VAS eaters and even with Concorde I didn't run out. But it does go extremely low and it doesn't seem to release VAS once you fly out of a complex area. FSX does so why not P3D?

I don't know how much LM had improved the original Microsoft code but perhaps the main benefit is how much can be handled by the GPU rather than VAS handling.

Reverting to the .33 drivers should clarify things tomorrow. Maybe part of the problem is in the recent drivers.

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44 minutes ago, Cruachan said:

Hi Ray,

The point I was trying to make is that despite my moving between multiple situations of varying complexities and scenery densities P3D was doing a good job of releasing VAS memory that was no longer in use. I could not do that before in one session as something in the Nvidia driver structure had changed after 376.33 to interfere with P3D's purging routines. LM have been discussing the matter with Nvidia and, if this afternoon's experience has any weight, I have to assume that it has had some effect (hopefully I'm right about this) in convincing them that the problem did exist...not that you are likely to read anything from Nvidia confirming the issue was being caused by their drivers.

Regards,

Mike

Thanks Mike. I haven't noticed P3D releasing VAS. Maybe after I install the 376.33 drivers I will.

Perhaps the problem is with Nvidia but as you say they're hardly likely to admit it. More testing tomorrow.

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Hi,

A few folk will persist in decrying the standard of coding that has produced P3D. Yes, it is based on Microsoft® ESP™ and yet the Lockheed Martin Prepar3D Development Team have done a heck of a job in finding ways to bring considerable polish to this ageing 32bit simulator. Over the years they have listened patiently to their community of supporters and have accepted numerous requests which, once implemented, have done wonders to improve our experience. This in itself must have been a Herculean task on top of the time taken to improve the sim's performance and stability. I really don't think we have too much to complain about. Instead, I suggest that we should be very grateful for what has been achieved to date, including the preservation of coding architecture that has allowed the addition of so many wonderful 3rd Party enhancements.

I am running Windows 7 Pro 64bit which is regarded by many as past its sell by date. Windows 10 is the 'modern' goto operating system yet still only commands a 25% share of the market while W7 is not far short of 50%. Why? Because the latter is stable and still accomplishes everything the enthusiastic and not-so-enthusiastic user really needs without any of the unwelcome Microsoft induced hassles. What issues I have experienced are generally from the use of 3rd Party products and not the operating system itself.

We may be getting a 64bit version of Prepar3D, but I'm willing to bet that many, like me, will be reluctant to bin our highly customised 32bit variant anytime soon.

Mike

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5 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Thanks Mike. I haven't noticed P3D releasing VAS. Maybe after I install the 376.33 drivers I will.

Perhaps the problem is with Nvidia but as you say they're hardly likely to admit it. More testing tomorrow.

Hi Ray,

I could be wrong, but it's possible you may encounter problems going back to the 376.33 drivers as stuff changed in the drivers when the 10xx series cards came out. No harm in trying, I suppose, but it seems a shame to use less compatible drivers with your GTX 1080 card.

Regards,

Mike

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