Redid some tiles with USA2 and used HDMeshv3 for overlays and they look much better. Better color and much better overlay placement (minus the trees where they shouldn't be but that's an issue with all overlays obviously). The data must be more detailed as there's greater variance in industrical, business, and residential areas.

On 6/18/2017 at 4:02 PM, tonywob said:

Basically, yes. It will scan all the DDS files in your Ortho4XP ortho directory and generate trees based on color with some simplification and smoothing. It's pretty simple and nothing that hasn't been done before (There is a similar tool for FSX)

I've actually started using this approach using the NLCD raster data as it's quite detailed and has simple forest/vegetation classifications. In addition, I've found a few states which provide some even higher resolution landuse data which can be used (I've already tried the California vegetation one, and it's pretty good). 

 

 

 

So how would such a tool work with the overlays currently done by Ortho4XP? Doesn't there overlay do buildings and trees all together? Would it just be a matter of layering in the scenery.ini?

Just a quick question here from someone who's never seen orthos in use. When you get close to the ground, does it look very pixelated like the standard photo scenery?

1 minute ago, vortex681 said:

Just a quick question here from someone who's never seen orthos in use. When you get close to the ground, does it look very pixelated like the standard photo scenery?

I'd call it more blurry than pixelated, but yes, it's photo scenery. You can use higher resolution sources if you do it yourself, but the blur is still there at ground level. It's especially noticeable in the grass or dirt areas next to a sharply defined runway texture.

It's possible to mask the blurriness of orthophoto terrain if you use enough autogen or hand-placed scenery elements on top of it, like the Beti-X scenery's "volumetric grass" placed over an otherwise blurred green area next to the runway. 

1 hour ago, vortex681 said:

Just a quick question here from someone who's never seen orthos in use. When you get close to the ground, does it look very pixelated like the standard photo scenery?

Not at all...even right upon the ground.  You need to do zl17 or higher, my recommendation.

23 minutes ago, Sesquashtoo said:

Not at all...even right upon the ground.  You need to do zl17 or higher, my recommendation.

At z17 or higher and "right on the ground," are you saying orthos don't look more blurry than default landclass texture? That isn't my experience.

56 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

At z17 or higher and "right on the ground," are you saying orthos don't look more blurry than default landclass texture? That isn't my experience.

I guess all factors, your system, and its monitor bear into the final visuals, for each user experience.

I run an EVGA  FTW, GTX-1070, driving an ultra-wide Dell, that comes in just under full 4K resolution, at native.

I have taxi'ed by concrete, asphalt, dirt, and all are cohesive, well defined..and that at ground level.  I can come in from 12,000 feet, and touch the numbers, with all very well defined. That is why I am so crazy about this new visual of flying. I am only talking about what I have generated myself, and not what is commercially available. 

This has been quite fascinating for me, and only want to fly over such, into the future. I never have been to Lyon, France, but with the very detailed and complex tiles I generated, I feel that I have 'been there'.  Not once, in the hundreds of miles flown, in those four tiles I generated around Lyon, did I ever see...not once...any element of visual repeat. Not once...and that is the power of ortho, vs. library-texture, library objects, and land class fly- overs. For myself, I am now hooked on this type of visual. It gives me what I need...the sense that I am flying from one point, to another...and as in real life, you never see the same farm again, the same out-buildings, in the exact same spot...etc. No matter where you glance down upon...you have just advanced that one nautical mile along your flight path.  It simply was the last element needed for flight simulation.

It is so good looking on my system, that in many places with zl17 or higher, I do not need 3D (above-rise) objects placed over the actual photo-scenic capture shots of the satellite camera. Not at all. From rotation, to the FL's...each house, or any other descriptive real-life object sitting upon the ground and having a visual foot-print, (no matter if it is technically, 'flat' in the scenery,as some describe)....for the real world 'object' shadow clarity, gives better 'visual cue' to the eye of height above ground for the real-world objects, homes, high-rises, commercial properties, then even synthetic OSM-driven library objects.  In fact...it even adds to the diversity, because you do NOT see the same library 3D house in any one mile flown over.  Each to their own of course, but...for myself, this was the Holy Grail....and has closed the open book waiting for the day I could believe that I am indeed flying from the orgin airport, to the destination airport, and not have to B.S. my mind...that I am doing it.

Everyone's flight sim'ming needs, is unique and different, and the above, describes mine.  The sky is nice, the plane is detailed...but I always needed the 'real-life' visual cue, upon the ground, that I am indeed advancing in trajectory.  Ortho slams the case, closed, Court adjourned, lol.

Cheers,

Mitch

3 hours ago, vortex681 said:

Just a quick question here from someone who's never seen orthos in use. When you get close to the ground, does it look very pixelated like the standard photo scenery?

Depends on the resolution. 

At ZL17, it never gets pixelated looking, but at 100 feet above a roadway, it's gonna look blurry. But the resolution of ZL17 is better than FSX/P3D's ground texture resolution limit so I'm willing to cut orthos some slack. You are always high enough once off the runway for them to look clear unless you are purposely flying a chopper at extremely low altitudes. 

So while it's not perfect, it's no worse than the other platforms and markedly better in some ways. 

Now if you went up to ZL18 or ZL19, it'd be ridiculously clear even down on the deck. The option is there, but it takes a ton of diskspace unless you just do areas around the airport in that resolution.

1 hour ago, Paraffin said:

At z17 or higher and "right on the ground," are you saying orthos don't look more blurry than default landclass texture? That isn't my experience.

Than default XP11? Yeah, it does look a little blurrier than stock if you are 100-200 feet off the deck. 

But compared to FSX/P3D's ground texture limit, it's a bit better close up. So it's more than tolerable for a lot of people coming from other platforms. 

I'm very picky about this stuff, but taking off, I am always high enough above the ground by the time I cross the fence for ZL17 to look crisp and clear. 

22 minutes ago, bonchie said:

Depends on the resolution. 

At ZL17, it never gets pixelated looking, but at 100 feet above a roadway, it's gonna look blurry. But the resolution of ZL17 is better than FSX/P3D's ground texture resolution limit so I'm willing to cut orthos some slack. You are always high enough once off the runway for them to look clear unless you are purposely flying a chopper at extremely low altitudes. 

My love for helicopters and bush planes probably does bias my opinion, but I can't help it. That's the way I fly and what I care about. As for "extremely low altitudes," well you do have to land a  helicopter on the ground eventually.

In that last 20 feet coming down from a hover or run-on approach, I can land much more smoothly on fine-grained landclass texture than blurryy ortho terrain where I can't tell how high I am off the ground. It makes a big difference in whether I make a smooth landing or a bouncy one. 

And not just with helos. I sometimes fly bush planes and land on terrain like sandbars. Judging when to flare is a lot easier over high-res landclass texture than a blurry ortho.

Now if you went up to ZL18 or ZL19, it'd be ridiculously clear even down on the deck. The option is there, but it takes a ton of diskspace unless you just do areas around the airport in that resolution.

I'm not sure even ZL19 is as fine-grained as default landclass texture with the XP graphics sliders up all the way. I'd have to see some comparisons.

On 6/20/2017 at 1:32 PM, bonchie said:

Just a quick question here from someone who's never seen orthos in use. When you get close to the ground, does it look very pixelated like the standard photo scenery?

Ortho4xp gives the option, if you go into global config, to add decals to the terrain as you build a tile. If you enable this as True it will place "gritty" textures on top of the blurry terrain. I mainly use ZL 17 or 18 and when you get down to ground level there are realistic grass, dirt, gravel etc textures which are great especially for helis. Major boost to realism in my book. Cheers everybody.

10 hours ago, Bob Tildesley said:

Ortho4xp gives the option, if you go into global config, to add decals to the terrain as you build a tile. If you enable this as True it will place "gritty" textures on top of the blurry terrain. I mainly use ZL 17 or 18 and when you get down to ground level there are realistic grass, dirt, gravel etc textures which are great especially for helis. Major boost to realism in my book. Cheers everybody.

Could you post some pictures of this? That interests me greatly.

10 hours ago, Bob Tildesley said:

Ortho4xp gives the option, if you go into global config, to add decals to the terrain as you build a tile. If you enable this as True it will place "gritty" textures on top of the blurry terrain. I mainly use ZL 17 or 18 and when you get down to ground level there are realistic grass, dirt, gravel etc textures which are great especially for helis. Major boost to realism in my book. Cheers everybody.

Thanks for this tip - Just re-built a tile with that on and I think I do like it!

10 hours ago, Bob Tildesley said:

Ortho4xp gives the option, if you go into global config, to add decals to the terrain as you build a tile. If you enable this as True it will place "gritty" textures on top of the blurry terrain. I mainly use ZL 17 or 18 and when you get down to ground level there are realistic grass, dirt, gravel etc textures which are great especially for helis. Major boost to realism in my book. Cheers everybody.

Now that's interesting!

I'm not a fan of orthos for several reasons, and the blurry texture at ground level is one of them. It won't solve my other major objections about flattened object artifacts, but for areas with enough autogen to cover the artifacts, or hand-edited to remove them, this might look good. When I get time next weekend I'll try it.

Edit to add:  Is there a noticeable frame rate hit for this effect?

24 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

Now that's interesting!

I'm not a fan of orthos for several reasons, and the blurry texture at ground level is one of them. It won't solve my other major objections about flattened object artifacts, but for areas with enough autogen to cover the artifacts, or hand-edited to remove them, this might look good. When I get time next weekend I'll try it.

Edit to add:  Is there a noticeable frame rate hit for this effect?

No. In general, I get exactly the same performance with or without orthos - they just cause longer loading in the beginning.

Everybody who's one the fence, try the ready made California set (it has the mentioned decals): http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/36327-us-orthophotos/

Download, install and go. For best results, use this scenery on top of it:

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/36109-us-west-real-life/

This gives you a pretty good impression what orthos can for you - without going through the learning phase of how to create them.