whamil77

690B Discrepancy List

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A thread to collect errors found by users that Carenado might consider in an update.

1.  The #2 engine(prop) RPM minor units gauge needle is dim in the daylight and invisible under the lights at night (P3Dv4 and v3).

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- Cabin VSI appears to be inop.

- Interior lighting seems to be somehow interconnected.  Adjusting either the Panel lights, Cabin lights, or the pilot flood light changes the switches on the other two.

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Any issues also please send too Carenado support, there seems to be about a 3 or 4 week window where Carenado is receptive to fixing these things if they are told about them, after that it seems they move on to the next aircraft?

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Not really a bug but I have installed all Carenado AC in the recommended P3D v4 Addons in documents folder. They all work perfectly but this one, the click spots on the overhead panel don't have any sounds. All other sounds work fine. Any ideas?

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- Co-pilot airspeed indicator appears to be ripped directly out of the 441 and therefore its markings are incorrect.

- R windshield heat switch is labelled "L WSHLD" i.e. the L/R switches have the same label by mistake.

- PILOT INSTR LIGHTS only lights the ADI, HSI, RMI, and VSI, and the same switch on the co-pilot side only lights the HSI.

- If you right click the altitude selector knob, you will get stuck in a mode where you can only select 1000s and there's no way to un-do that.

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Here's another one... The Alabeo C441 had an animation for the props that caused them to turn as soon as the starter was engaged (vs. default FS behavior), and to take a while spinning down at shutdown.  The 690 has the shutdown animation, but not the starter animation.

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Int lighting really messed up. Cab lighting and some panel gauges tied in together. Over head light turns all off/on including some but not all gauges such as airspeed ind and other unneeded haha gauges we don/t really need to see. Basically the entire INT LIGHTING is hosed.

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I guess this is my biggest gripe so far.  Something is odd with ESHP output.  With torque and RPM constant, ESHP decreases precipitously with increasing altitude.  This is not supposed to happen with flat-rated engines below their critical altitude.  Adjustments to the .air and/or the .cfg files don't effect the drop-off therefore, it must be within the model itself.  As a consequence, the engine can't be adjusted (in this case to emulate a -10...I did that with the Flysim MU-2 and the Alabeo C441 very successfully) and the airplane is particularly slow.  Adjusting the torque such that critical altitude is 18000-19000 feet only adds a knot or two to the maximum airspeed.

By changing the torque vs density curves, one is able to emulate different modifications such as the Blackhawk upgrades to the King Airs and the -10 mods to the TPE-331 aircraft.  For whatever reason, it doesn't work with the Commander.  Bummer....... 

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5 hours ago, whamil77 said:

1. Something is odd with ESHP output.  With torque and RPM constant, ESHP decreases precipitously with increasing altitude. 

2. This is not supposed to happen with flat-rated engines below their critical altitude. 

3. Adjustments to the .air and/or the .cfg files don't effect the drop-off therefore, it must be within the model itself.  

4. and the airplane is particularly slow.

1. Didn't notice a steep decrease and I don't think that ESHP is the correct value to look at. Comparing the hp gauge which AFSD reveils that the gauge shows shaft power and that remains constant up for the first few thousand feet

2. I get constant shaft power up to approx 5000ft

3. I don't think so as the Do228, the C441 and the 690B engines look basically identical air and cfg file wise.

4. The maximum deviation I get, compared to the RW performance tables is -2kts

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18 minutes ago, J35OE said:

1. Didn't notice a steep decrease and I don't think that ESHP is the correct value to look at. Comparing the hp gauge which AFSD reveils that the gauge shows shaft power and that remains constant up for the first few thousand feet

2. I get constant shaft power up to approx 5000ft

3. I don't think so as the Do228, the C441 and the 690B engines look basically identical air and cfg file wise.

4. The maximum deviation I get, compared to the RW performance tables is -2kts

About number 4, the performance chart that you are using is for the 690B with the TPE331-5 or with the Dash Ten engine? 

The exhaust in the carenado model engines are from the dash ten engine, the -5 engine have the exhaust long and round at the end. 

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-5 and the Carenado performance data also seem to be for the -5 engines.

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3 hours ago, J35OE said:

1. Didn't notice a steep decrease and I don't think that ESHP is the correct value to look at. Comparing the hp gauge which AFSD reveils that the gauge shows shaft power and that remains constant up for the first few thousand feet

2. I get constant shaft power up to approx 5000ft

3. I don't think so as the Do228, the C441 and the 690B engines look basically identical air and cfg file wise.

4. The maximum deviation I get, compared to the RW performance tables is -2kts

Never mind.  Found the problem. 

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49 minutes ago, whamil77 said:

Never mind.  Found the problem. 

Sorry, what problem did you found?

Anything with ESHP output.?

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7 minutes ago, MartinRex007 said:

A coupe of performance numbers for the Dash 10, also I notice that with the Honeywell TPE 331-10T, the ITT gauges are replaced with an EGT system.

Speed: 300+ KTAS
Climb: 717.5 shaft horsepower to 16,000 feet. 3,500+ fpm through 20,000 feet.

http://twincommander.com/custom-kits-modifications/dash-10/

 

AIRCRAFT PERFORMANCE FLIGHT TEST DATA

Flight Test Data                                         (690A)TPE331-5                                       TPE331-10T

Thermodynamic Shaft Horsepower           840 minimum                                         1,000 minimum

Flat Rate Torque To                                       6,000 ft                                                 16,000 ft

Cruise Speed                                               276 KTAS                                             300+ KTAS

(ISA, 9,000 lb, 96%, 20,000 ft)

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I haven't bought the aircraft yet, but will it be possible to boost the performance to match the -10 in the aircraft.cfg file? Odd, they included a EGT gauge replacement for the ITT which is done with the -10, but appear to have model the performance of the -5?

 

Cheers

Martin

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48 minutes ago, MartinRex007 said:

I haven't bought the aircraft yet, but will it be possible to boost the performance to match the -10 in the aircraft.cfg file? Odd, they included a EGT gauge replacement for the ITT which is done with the -10, but appear to have model the performance of the -5?

 

Cheers

Martin

You could increase the power_scalar value under [turboprop_engine].  That's not the right way to do it, but it will get you in the neighborhood.

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44 minutes ago, C525B said:

You could increase the power_scalar value under [turboprop_engine].  That's not the right way to do it, but it will get you in the neighborhood.

Simulating derated turboprop engine performance in Flight Simulator is very difficult to do realistically, if not impossible.  Sure you can play around with power settings in the aircraft.cfg file or the torque curves in the .air file to get high power at altitude but then you have to set the fuel flow scalar low to give you correct fuel burn (low) at high power settings at altitude.  FSX (and I presume P3D) link fuel flow to power.  Set 1500 ftlbs of torque and 2000 rpm at 5,000' in your favourite Carenado turboprop and note your fuel flow.  Do the same at 20,000'.  I'll bet you'll see fuel flows exactly the same.  FSX does not model decreasing fuel flow with altitude in turboprops unless power also drops.  That's why I prefer turboprop models without derated engines, such as the -5 here, or the KingAir C90B over the C90Gtx.  As you climb, power available drops and so does your fuel flow (like the real aircraft).  The -5 powered aircraft is still plenty fast!

If you don't care about unrealistically low fuel flows at low altitude, in climb, or at less than maximum cruise then fine.  But it's not for me.

If P3D does better in this regard I would like to know!

Cheers,

David

 

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2 hours ago, MartinRex007 said:

A coupe of performance numbers for the Dash 10, also I notice that with the Honeywell TPE 331-10T, the ITT gauges are replaced with an EGT system.

Speed: 300+ KTAS
Climb: 717.5 shaft horsepower to 16,000 feet. 3,500+ fpm through 20,000 feet.

http://twincommander.com/custom-kits-modifications/dash-10/

 

I think that is an error on the website.  It doesn't make sense that the airplane would continue to climb like that above 16,000' when the engine is essentially losing power.  Elsewhere on the same site is this statement:

"300+ KTAS 

Full power to 16,000 feet

3,500 fpm initial rate of climb/Greater than 2000 fpm to FL200

12 minutes to FL290

Increased fuel efficiencies

Increased range"

This makes much more sense. 

 

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3 hours ago, bobby456gt said:

Sorry, what problem did you found?

Anything with ESHP output.?

The N1 vs torque curve was a little shallow.  I was able to adjust it along with the torque vs density curve and get the results I wanted.  The fuel flows never match at all altitudes but that is a simulator limitation.  I adjusted the fuel flow scalar to correspond to a middle altitude but the simulator doesn't scale it correctly at lower and higher altitudes.  I wish they would allow a curve for fuel flow and EGT/ITT.  Then we could program them to act correctly. 

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In this case my big "no go"  item for the purchase it's the FATAL ERROR in the instruments. Like said here if it's a Commander with TPE331-5 need to have their respective ITT instrument. 

If is a Commander with the TPE331-10 it's OK and match with the EGT instruments in the plane. 

Can't be a 690B with the stock -5 Garrett and have a EGT instrument or a with the Dash Ten engine and have the performance of the original -5 engine.

That's my big complain, if carenado it's packing a SP hope for God sake fix this. I can help them have material etc to do the plane more realistic. 

At least have my Shrike Commander 100% real like the real one.

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This is what I sent Carenado a couple of hours ago. If others could send them a support ticket perhaps they will model the -10 engines with realistic performance?

"There is some confusion with the online community regarding which engine is modeled in you new AC 690B, the TPE 331-5 or the TPE 331-10T? The emblem for the -10T is on the side of the aircraft, and has EGT instead of ITT gauges, however the performance doesn't seem to match the -10T any chance to mod the aircraft to meet the performance specs on the -10T?"  Thank you!

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2 hours ago, MartinRex007 said:

This is what I sent Carenado a couple of hours ago. If others could send them a support ticket perhaps they will model the -10 engines with realistic performance?

"There is some confusion with the online community regarding which engine is modeled in you new AC 690B, the TPE 331-5 or the TPE 331-10T? The emblem for the -10T is on the side of the aircraft, and has EGT instead of ITT gauges, however the performance doesn't seem to match the -10T any chance to mod the aircraft to meet the performance specs on the -10T?"  Thank you!

Good Martin, that's is the point and the major complain, the ITT/EGT instruments, the engines and the performance!!!  

If they can explain and solve this thing in concrete the plane worth the money, if not........  Another pretty plane without soul. 

Bad instruments, bad engines bad performance!!  

Even the exhausts on the engine are typical dash ten engines, the exhausts on the -5 are different! 

More people need to keep pushing carenado team to fix the problems 

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I Hope you folks forwarded this onto Carenado so they can make the necessary corrections and publish a fix for us.

 

 

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I really wanted to buy this one. But I guess I will be passing on yet another pretty airplane. Thanks to those who paid to be "beta testers" of more Carenado shovelware. You saved me another $40.

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