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P3D V4 Addon Organizer randomly changing sceneries priority

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1 hour ago, Grand_Pubah said:

Version 1.15 is doing it now. I try to change the order of the add on scenery, but when I hit Save the scenery returns to it's previous position. Sane as noted above.

Hello Keith,

P4AO is stateless, it doesn't "remember" and it is not changing anything either randomly or automatically. Whne starting and when saving, it is showing what is in your config files, following a fixed set of rules that never changes.

If the result after saving is different from before saving, then the change either wasn't saved at all (file access/security?) or it is not possible to do what you want to do. There are instances where you can't change the scenery ordering, at least not in a defined manner. For example if you have several external definitions layered inside the scenery.cfg range in the same spot, it may be impossible to change their sequence. But this has to be analyzed on a case-to-case basis.

Be aware though, that other things can influence scenery ordering too. There was a thread much like this one recently, where ORBX was interfering with what P4AO does.

Best regards

 


LORBY-SI

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Hey Oliver,

 

I am trying to add my FS Global 2010 scenery configuration via this app instead of using scenery.cfg.  I am able to add sceneries via the app but when I move the layers, lets say layer 99 and then I add other directories they all say layer 99.

In Prepar3d v4, I do see the libraries are listed but if I click on okay, then Prepar3d ask there are not non-squential entries, would you like to fix it.  I click on fix it, and everything goes away.  But when I check the files xmls and in the addon organizer app - all my custom entries still say layer 99.

 

I chose layer 99 but then all the original enteries in scenery.cfg should move down? shouldn't it.

 

Or is everything fine as all the items are lined up in the scenery library in P3Dv4.  Just wondering why the non-sequential notification comes?

 

 


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12 hours ago, Skywolf said:

Hey Oliver,

 

I am trying to add my FS Global 2010 scenery configuration via this app instead of using scenery.cfg.  I am able to add sceneries via the app but when I move the layers, lets say layer 99 and then I add other directories they all say layer 99.

In Prepar3d v4, I do see the libraries are listed but if I click on okay, then Prepar3d ask there are not non-squential entries, would you like to fix it.  I click on fix it, and everything goes away.  But when I check the files xmls and in the addon organizer app - all my custom entries still say layer 99.

 

I chose layer 99 but then all the original enteries in scenery.cfg should move down? shouldn't it.

 

Or is everything fine as all the items are lined up in the scenery library in P3Dv4.  Just wondering why the non-sequential notification comes?

 

 

Hi,

this is a well known issue. That your xml entries all have the same layer number when you push them between two items of the scenery.cfg is just how it is.
But that the Scenery Library dialog is complaining, is a remnant of the old days, when there only was one scenery.cfg file. I have posted this issue in the Prepar3D development forums, and they said that they will check it out.

Best regards


LORBY-SI

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1 hour ago, Lorby_SI said:

Hi,

this is a well known issue. That your xml entries all have the same layer number when you push them between two items of the scenery.cfg is just how it is.
But that the Scenery Library dialog is complaining, is a remnant of the old days, when there only was one scenery.cfg file. I have posted this issue in the Prepar3D development forums, and they said that they will check it out.

Best regards

Thank you for letting me know.


Active Pattern: MSFS2020 | In Long term Storage: Prepar3d  

How I Evaluate Third Party Sim Addon Developers

Refined P3Dv5.0 HF2 Settings Part1 (has MaddogX) and older thread Part 2 (has PMDG 747)

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On 9/14/2017 at 10:56 AM, Lorby_SI said:

Hi,

this is a well known issue. That your xml entries all have the same layer number when you push them between two items of the scenery.cfg is just how it is.
But that the Scenery Library dialog is complaining, is a remnant of the old days, when there only was one scenery.cfg file. I have posted this issue in the Prepar3D development forums, and they said that they will check it out.

Best regards

Oliver,

I have experienced the problem above of seemingly random changes to scenery order after changing order with Addon Organizer. It appears to me, though, that Addon Organizer is introducing the problem when it assigns the same layer number to all .xml layers that fall between two .cfg layers. It would appear there is no facility in Addon Organizer to intelligently relate contents of .xml and .cfg, other than as a complete, contiguous reading of those files. In other words, all of the .cfg layers can be at the top of the scenery order, or all the .xml layers can be at the top of the scenery order, but not mixed...but this is not necessarily a problem with P3D, it is a problem caused by Addon Organizer. P3D is simply reading layer order (can't change layer order of .xml addons in P3D).

I did a quick test with Addon Organizer:

All .xml sceneries at the top of list - each entry has a unique layer order

Move one or more .xml entries between two .cfg entries - even without clicking save, Addon Organizer assigns the layer number of the .cfg entry just above the first .xml entry to ALL .xml that are immediately contiguous.

Interestingly, .cfg entries can be placed between .xml entries and the .cfg entries get consecutive layer numbers, not the same number. How can .cfg layers be numbered consecutively between .xml, but not vice-versa.

I think you are overlooking an issue CAUSED by Addon Organizer, thinking it is caused by P3D.

I am not trying to place blame, as I don't care who's fault it is, I just want things to work. The reason I need to be able to mix .xml and .cfg is that my fsaerodata entries need to be top-ordered, with all addon airports below. Unfortunately, fsaerodata is a .cfg install who's data changes monthly, or I would just change it to .xml in Addon Organizer.

Edited by somiller
clarification

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I did another test, where I manually edited layer numbers for the 3 fsaerodata listings in scenery.cfg to make them highest order (specifically 215, 216, 217). I also manually edited layer numbers for the 16 sceneries in add-on.xml that I want immediately below layer 215 (specifically 199 - 214) but before layer 198 which is a scenery.cfg entry. I opened Addon organizer, and all sceneries were in proper order, each with a unique layer number. I started P3D and went to scenery library, and all sceneries were ordered exactly as I had edited.

However, I then closed P3D, opened Addon Organizer (to see all sceneries ordered correctly with unique layer numbers) and without making any changes I simply clicked save, and it immediately changed the scenery order, moving the fsaerodata layers below the .xml sceneries.

What I think is happening, is that Addon Organizer is reading "[Area.XXX]" of the scenery.cfg and using that for layer order, rather than "Layer=XXX", or it's not able to write Area.XXX to be different than Layer=XXX.

In any case, in the scenery.cfg I edited, 3 fsaerodata listings [Area.199] / Layer=199; [Area.200] / Layer=200; [Area.201] / Layer=201; my edit changed them to [Area.199] / Layer=215, [Area.200] / Layer=216, [Area.201] / Layer=217. With this configuration, all is well with P3D, I get the layering order I want, and it allows mixing of .cfg and .xml sceneries all with unique layer numbers. In scenery.cfg the [Area.XXX] values remain consecutive from 001 to 201, but the Layer values become Layer=1 to 198, 215, 216, 217.

Oliver, is it possible for you to make Addon Organizer read and write what I've described above?

 

Edited by somiller
clarification

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On 9/11/2017 at 2:00 AM, Lorby_SI said:

Hello Keith,

P4AO is stateless, it doesn't "remember" and it is not changing anything either randomly or automatically. Whne starting and when saving, it is showing what is in your config files, following a fixed set of rules that never changes

 

Oliver, I beg to differ. Based on my experience above, in the instance of mixed .xml and .cfg layering, I believe AO is actively changing scenery order, but I think it's because of AO's rules of how scenery.cfg is supposed to be organized. When I edit as above, AO indeed reads the config files correctly, however, without making any changes in AO, simply clicking "save", AO changes what it clearly had just, correctly read. So it appears AO's rules for reading config files are different than it's rules for saving config files.


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4 hours ago, somiller said:

that Addon Organizer is introducing the problem when it assigns the same layer number to all .xml layers that fall between two .cfg layers

Unfortunately this is the only way to do it. P3D does not allow it to leave a "gap" in the scenery.cfg layers, you can not "insert" an XML layer number "between" two scenery.cfg entries.

[102] cfg
[101] xml
[100] cfg

will lead to a "non sequential layer order" error message.

So the only way left open to an external app is to emulate the reading sequence like the sim does it. Unfortunately P3D seems to change the contents of the add-ons.cfg from time to time (which manages the autodiscovery folders), and that will throw off P4AO.

The sequence that you are seeing in the P3D dialog is the "reading priority" of the sim, not the layer number. 

All of this may change when LM changes/fixes that "non-sequential" issue, as per my bug report in the P3D forum.

Best regards


LORBY-SI

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3 hours ago, somiller said:

Oliver, I beg to differ. Based on my experience above, in the instance of mixed .xml and .cfg layering, I believe AO is actively changing scenery order, but I think it's because of AO's rules of how scenery.cfg is supposed to be organized. When I edit as above, AO indeed reads the config files correctly, however, without making any changes in AO, simply clicking "save", AO changes what it clearly had just, correctly read. So it appears AO's rules for reading config files are different than it's rules for saving config files.

It is still stateless though, it has no "database". And yes, it changes what it reads, it aligns the sceneries according to the rules derived from the P3D specification.

What counts in the end is what the simulator reads - and that priority used to be correct.

We will see if any of this matters after 4.1...

Best regards


LORBY-SI

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Oliver,

Thanks for your reply. I don't know of this "non sequential layer order" message of which you speak. After making the manual layer edits indicated in my post above, I opened P3D...all scenery listings in P3D "Scenery Library" were exactly as I ordered them, P3D gave me no error message, and all was good with the world.


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Oliver, from your previous post - "it aligns the sceneries according to the rules derived from the P3D specification." - This may be true, which leads me to believe maybe LM doesn't truly understand how P3D is reading scenery entries. I am telling you based on my test, that while AO reads my edits exactly, so does P3D, only AO seems to think it should change them, and only if one clicks "save."

The point is, that it is obvious that what I've done is possible, AND at least temporarily, satisfactory to P3D. Being as it is, then why can't AO be made to do automatically what I did manually. I mean, developers are writing software every day that doesn't strictly follow SDK rules, but they do it to accomplish their product goals.

You have created a brilliant product with AO...it's very flexible, and I'm sure it does things not specifically spelled out in the P3D SDK.

All I know is I have a goal to mix .cfg and .xml layering, and my method accomplished that with no complaints from P3D.


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Oliver,

I was going to attach my scenery.cfg, and first and last .xml files but can't figure out how. Would you message me with an email to which I can forward them.

I would like you to see what I've done and get your feedback after looking at the files.


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2 hours ago, somiller said:

Oliver,

Thanks for your reply. I don't know of this "non sequential layer order" message of which you speak. After making the manual layer edits indicated in my post above, I opened P3D...all scenery listings in P3D "Scenery Library" were exactly as I ordered them, P3D gave me no error message, and all was good with the world.

You will get this error message when you leave a gap in the cfg layer order, open the scenery library in P3D and just press "OK".

Best regards


LORBY-SI

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2 hours ago, somiller said:

Oliver,

I was going to attach my scenery.cfg, and first and last .xml files but can't figure out how. Would you message me with an email to which I can forward them.

I would like you to see what I've done and get your feedback after looking at the files.

I know what you have done, the P4AO actually started the way you describe. Unfortunately the issue with the above mentioned error message came up (see the related posts in this forum) so I decided to leave it at that until there is a new version of P3D (because LM promised to take a look at it).

As matters currently stand, it will probably take quite some time before I can take a look at the P4AO again. After the release of 4.1 the first order of business is to check and update the Lorby-SI payware products. 

TBH I didn't expect P4AO to last that long. There should be professional/payware solutions out by now.

Best regards


LORBY-SI

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8 hours ago, Lorby_SI said:

You will get this error message when you leave a gap in the cfg layer order, open the scenery library in P3D and just press "OK".

Best regards

Oliver,

I did just as you said...open scenery library in P3D, hit "okay"...AND...P3D did it's library rebuild thing, and rebuilt the indexes, then went through it's reload, then I was right back where I started at the default scenario WITH NO ERROR MESSAGE!

Whatever situation you're describing, that caused problems for others, that is obviously a different situation than what I am using, because what I did CAUSES NO ERROR MESSAGE!


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