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Beware of pcaviator.com !! (and please help me)

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Hello all,sorry I could not really find the appropriate forum for this post.I am very ###### right now.I live in Turkey and 3 days ago I ordered ch yoke + pedals from pcaviator.com http://www.pcaviator.com/shop/viewAProduct.php?pid=402It cost me 410 dollars with 160 dollars of shipping.Today it came to Turkey and now it is stuck at the customs and they are expecting me to pay 400 dollars more to remove it.The reason is while processing my order,I chose ups worldwide express for shipping.But instead they shipped me via Fedex !.The biggest thing is that they didn't even include an original bill with the products.They only put a copy of the bill inside.So customs took it and won't let it out.Fedex is requesting around 200 dollars in addition to 400 dollars customs tax.So now I am supposed to pay 600 more dollars for a product that is 250 dollars.I can't even return it.Fedex asks me 300 dollars to return it,plus my 400 dollars will be history.No money back,if I want to return it I'll pay 700 dollars in total,if I want to have them,I'll have to pay 1000 dollars.I am not actually hoping for a refund,because I emailed them several times and they never bothered to answer back.I don't think they'll refund me either.So this is what kind of a situation I am in now,you might guess how ###### I am at the website.They never answered any of my emails,before and after purchase.What do you propose I should do?I am so desperate right now.Please help guys.And the thing is,if they had shipped via ups and had included the original bill,none of this would have happened.

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Wow, sorry to hear about your horrible situation.Did you pay with a credit card? I don't know how it works in Turkey, but in the US, you can call a credit card company and request a chargeback (a reversal/removal of a charge from your account) if you do not receive the promised goods or services. In my experience, credit card companies will proivde you with a chargeback as long as you don't request them frequently.If you paid with some kind of online system like paypal(shudder), you can go through them and try and request a refund, since most of them at least claim to offer a refund or "money back guarantee" system.

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simple, no?...dont pay anything...just leave it sit there and dont try to collect it...then tell the vendor he needs to issue a refund and if he refuses simply have your crediting bank deny the initial sales charge. Dont allow yourself to become the victim here, forget the product...doesnt sound like its worth the trouble.Dave

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Yes I paid with a credit card though haven't asked the bank yet they are closed at the moment and will be until monday.Right now I can do nothing but wait,and get ###### more and more.I email them and every time they send me an automated message like they are mocking me.Argh I want to kill them.Let this be a lesson to us all and please do not shop from them.They do not even include the bill with the products.What bunch of as##&# ....

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Can't let it sit there because for everyday it sits at the customs,fedex charges me some amount.So if I am not picking it for a long time they'll get my credit card information from the website and charge it themselves.I can't make the bank stop this from happening.I am in a pretty f**ed up situation right now,fedex is such a company that traps you in every corner.I have to do something or everyday this is getting more expensive for me.Argh what the #### was I thinking for ordering these.I could live without them.why why why .... :(((((((((

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Major Major mistake to not use DHL for international. I work for DHL and our worldwide international service is second to none, especially in the Middle East and East Med.Anyway...lets digest the charges. Fedex wants 200 dollars (US dollars Im assuming.). Is this for their transportation services? What exactly? Be specific. Are they including customs clearance in the fees? By Bill...do you mean commercial invoice for the goods? You need this to show value for which customs duty should based. I would be surprised if the customs duty is twice the value of the goods. When you ordered the goods (Im assuming online..) did you get a proforma invoice including shipping charges by email? Print that. It may suffice as a commercial invoice. Also you will know what you are responsible for vs Fedex. Your problem is Fedex. Ask Pcaviator for a duplicate copy of the commercial invoice. Also, talk to customs directly. Fedex is apparently talking to customs and treating you like a powerless private citizen...which happens all the time.Good luck,Eric

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200 dollars is ,100 dollars for all the documents of customs,60 dollars for keeping the product at the customs during the weekend and today(friday),I forgot what the other 40 dollars was for but it was something like this,something about customs.By bill,I mean the receipt that has the products and the price when you shop from some place.They didn't include the original receipt but instead they placed a fotocopy of it.So customs won't count this as real.Turkish taxes are pretty high,and they can ask pretty much high prices.Customs tax is usually higher than the price of the product.I heard a friend had a blank cdrw (blank recordable cd) stuck in the customs,it is 1 dollar or something and they asked him 1700 dollars to free it.I woulk ask pcaviator but they don't reply to anything.I don't think there's someone taking care of emails.You only receive the same automated reply for every email you sent.Fedex offers me 2 choices.I can let fedex do everything and then pay 200 dollars for documents and 400 dollars customs tax which is a total of 600 dollars,or even way I pay them 200 dollars for documents,then I go to the customs myself and do it.Even way,I have to pay them 200 dollars for the documents.I am really stuck between fedex and pcaviator and I am a victim here.Wish I had been offered the DHL option but pcaviator only offers UPS for worldwide shipping,but they do not care whatever you choose,I chose ups and they shipped via fedex and this is why all this is happening in the first place.They do not care what selection I make.They do what they wish to do.I wanted UPS not Fedex...

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i'm with the hardliners :-) don't pay a penny. have all charges reversed. don't even talk to those guys--now that you're looking at $1000 total they will talk you into paying "just" $800 and you will feel happy you got away so cheaply... for a day :-(

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Reversing the charges will not only get you your money back, but it will very likley get a response from PC Avaitior. Once the charges are reversed, they will be out considerable sum you paid for the hardware (gotta love credit cards), and won't even have the hardware to make up for the $410 that they won't have anymore. I think that a loss of that amount of money should get the attention of someone at PC Aviator.I would reccomend stil getting hardware, but if at all possible, get it directly from CH. They're cheaper than PC Avaitor (unless PCA has a really good deal), and their support has been nothing but superb. I have had a set of CH pedals for three years, and when the right brake axis went out, they fixed it for free (I paid shipping both ways), even though it was out of warranty.

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Sorry you're having this difficulty..... :(I'm in Canada, and only troubles I've had with PC Aviator is with the US Postal Service losing one snailmail money order, and failing to leave them notice of an expresspost money order (resulting in it being returned to sender, making me pay an additional $10 in return postage and another $10 to send it again...).. I may not have had a smooth purchasing experience with them yet, but every single time, my problem has been with the US Postal Service failing to get my payment there, and not with PC Aviator. Every time, once they did finally receive my payment, my order was shipped as soon as the products were received. I did have to pay some customs fees for my yoke/throttle quad/pedals that I ordered from them, but nowhere even close to what you're experiencing (but maybe that's just a difference in Canadian customs vs. Turkey....)

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Well I had been talking to someone from CH before but buying both yoke and rudder from CH is 50 dollars expensive,they are 300 dollars but pcaviator sells them for 250.Yes indeed CH has a wonderful costumer relations.But I don't think I'll order them again if this issue is solved.I can't take any other problem because the customs in this country is stupid as ####,some guy who is not worth a penny decides whether the product goes in or is stuck in the customs.It works in the most stupid way.And yes Canada is much better than Turkey,well every country is much better than Turkey for customs.If this was coming via usps or ups I was not going to have any problem at all.The biggest problem is they shipped via fedex even though I chose ups and they caused all this.

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"Can't let it sit there because for everyday it sits at the customs,fedex charges me some amount.So if I am not picking it for a long time they'll get my credit card information from the website and charge it themselves."This sounds very suspect- FedEx should not have your credit card number, only the vendor- and so they (FDX) should not be able to access your account and accumulate charges. If FDX are charging the vendor and you believe that the vendor might charge your account for them, then that is even more of a reason to act quickly to cancel this transaction with your credit card vendor.Are you sure you don't have a phone number on the back of your card (like for lost or stolen cards)? If you do, I would call that number and go at it. You really want to distance yourself from these outragious charges (and the product in question) as soon as you can. Good luck. I too have never had issues with this vendor, but that doesn't excuse them in this instance.Bruce.

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I'm sorry to hear you are having troubles. :( I don't think you can blame PC Aviator for this. It wouldn't have mattered if they came via UPS, USPS or FedEx, you would still be required to pay any Customs Fee and Tax your Govt decides to impose.

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It's not PC Aviator's fault. This is exactly the reason why it's not a good idea to buy stuff from overseas, especially not expensive stuff. I've had this happen too, but the fee was not that high since the order was only worth $50 or so. A friend of mine bought a videocard online from the US thinking it would be cheaper - guess what? It ended up being quite a bit more expensive than it would have been to buy it at the EU ripoff price instead.Also, PC Aviator is very bad at answering emails. They have an international number somewhere on their website. Call them, they're very helpful actually, once you get hold of an actual human being :)

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I think the best bet is to contact your credit card issuer after the weekend to dispute the transaction. the fact that pcaviator do not respond to email communication will strengthen your case against them with the bank. just one question: if it had been shipped via ups worldwide, do turkey customs let it in the country free of charges? as customs have rejected the copy invoice and assessed their value for the goods and FedEx are to fault for that.

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Yes in the past some of my friends ordered via UPS and they got theirs shipped to their home.If pcaviator did what I chose,I would have the same thing today.Well in this situation it might have not happened,because of again pcaviator,that they did not include a real receipt inside.Again everything leads to them.@JimmiG : Well I'd love to call them,but imagine how much it'd cost to call USA in a country that their custom can charge 1700 dollars for a blank cd.I will be calling the credit card issuer,or talk to my dad to find some solution,he knows some people,maybe we can lower the customs price and I might still pay some money to get them out but less than 400 dollars.I'll go to the customs and talk to the guys myself too.I'll try to find a less cheaper way anyhow.Fedex is just robbing trapping me in every corner and robbing me every single second in this situation.I'll never trust them again.Thanks everyone.I'll keep you posted on this.Right now my hands are tied and I have to wait for monday and do nothing else.Send some prayers over this way please ;).

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I'm a little confused here! How would this be different with UPS? If PCAviator didn't include the original invoice, you would still have the same problem with customs. Anyway when you buy a product, you normally pay shipping charges to the vendor, not the shipper. The shipment is paid out of the vendor's account (Unless the terms you agreed to was charge to shippee (You) in which case I could see why this is happening, If you paid shipping costs up front, this shouldn't apply.). FEDEX only recourse would to go after them for the amount needed. Then the vendor in turn would probably request the difference from you. Which of course you would have your credit card chargedback, for product not recieved. I can't see any scenario other than you agreeing to pay shipping on delivery to FedEX, where they can directly go after you for the money. Then again, you live in a different Country then I do, so your laws, may permit this. Good luck!!!

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I forgot to say that,when the customs doesn't see the original receipt,they include the shipping price with the product price,which is 410 dollars,so they assume the product is 410 dollars,and this costs a customs tax of 400 dollars.If they had put the real and original receipt inside,they were only going to do this calculation over 250 dollars which is the real product price and so I was going to pay something around 200 dollars instead of 400.Everything is their fault,I can't blame fedex,well except for the fact that they are robbing me every single passing second.How does a company not include a real receipt but puts a xerox copy of it??I can't understand this.Also fedex is run by some other company here,so this is why they are doing all these stuff.UPS is run by the international chains or DHL and as I said again none of this was going to happen if it were to be delivered by them.Anyway,what is done is done,I'll just try and find a way out of this,and I sware to order nothing from USA ever again.

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Wow! What a nightmare! I wanted to throw in my two cents worth of advice. I noted on the PC Aviator website that your order was shipped from the US office. US Customs wouldn't allow a product such as this to leave the US without proper documentation (or shouldn't). When FEDEX received the product, they had to ensure the product was properly documented for the country of shipment before they accepted it from PC Aviator. If it was not properly documented to get through Turkish customs, then I think you have a solid complaint with FEDEX. FEDEX should pick it back up from customs and return it to PC Aviator or get the proper documentation. I agree with another simmer in this thread that it didn't make any difference who the carrier was. FEDEX or UPS shipping is the same especially when shipping to another country. I think your problem is solely with Turkish customs (and maybe FEDEX) and no one other than you can resolve that problem. PC Aviator does have a 30 day money back guarantee on all their products so you would not be out your original $250 paid to PC Aviator for the product.As some others have suggested, I would NOT stop payment on your credit card. You are asking for a major nightmare and more problems if you do. Hope you can get it resolved Monday.Jim

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I have bought things from PCAviator over many years. I dealwith the Australian branch & have had superb service.Peter Sydney Australia

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>I think its unfair to target PC Aviator. Seems your problem>is with FedEx, and NOT PC Aviator.>>Not if PCAviator, didn't supply a proper invoice!! That's SOP, and they should have known better!!!!! Especially shipping internationally. Yes FedEx should have checked, but the onus is on the shipper to provide what is needed from their end. FedEx is only acting as their agent! So, yes FedEx does shoulder some blame, but the problem was mainly caused by the lack of an invoice from PCAviator!!

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No, it's Turkish customs.FedEx have standard policies and fees in every country, and these are probably the fees in Turkey.Nothing to do with pcaviator, if he'd bought $600 (including shipping) worth of goods from any other non-Turkish company he'd have to pay the same thing.That $400 or so is tax, FedEx fees to collect and process the tax for you, and apparently a fee for taking up shelfspace in their warehouse (probably because he refused to take delivery when offered).If you're importing goods into a country there's a lot of paperwork to deal with, every shipping agent (which is all that FedEx is) is goind to charge for dealing with that paperwork. They're not legally allowed to let go of the goods until the money has been paid, and the goods do cost them money until that time (that warehouse costs money to build and run).While it sounds expensive to have to essentially pay the same amount again, such is life and it's not at all unheard of.

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If Turkey is to join the EU it WILL HAVE to change their rules.I ordered 3 years ago the yoke and pedals from PROADVANTAGE in the USA and received it in Belgium for just above $200. For some obscur reason no custom/tax on these things (should have been and then it would have amounted around 20-25%)Oh, when there are customs to pay it is the delivering company that collects it at your door when delivering the merchandise.Roger

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