DEHowie

Xplane 11 update status?

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Well its been over 6 months since xplane 11 was released and we have heard only the slightest murmor of if/when an update might occur.

It took only weeks to get recoded 64bit 747's, 737's and 777's yet its been over 6 months to get no news on the xp11 update for the 6.

So Pmdg do you have any news or information as to when or if its being updated?

Flying her it in P3D just highlights the deficincies of P3D's flight modelling and the experience is SO much better in xplane that i can live with the graphical anomalies, overly reflective instruments, lack of PBR etc in preference to the P3D aero model.

So help us xplane lovers/preferrers and let us know whats happening.

 

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@DEHowie

It would be nice to know. For now you can check out my thread

which updates the SFC for the engines, it's a wip, the high blower doesn't work quite right either but it's better than a direct import

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I too as an owner of the P3D and X-Plane versions would like to know what the XP11 plans are regarding the DC-6.  I've spent my own time learning correcting some of the issues plaguing the DC-6 in version 11.  I've been able to correct the reversed rudder animation, adjust the transparency of the gauge faces and even tweak the fuel flow to match the values displayed in p3dd.

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13 minutes ago, deimos256 said:

I too as an owner of the P3D and X-Plane versions would like to know what the XP11 plans are regarding the DC-6.  I've spent my own time learning correcting some of the issues plaguing the DC-6 in version 11.  I've been able to correct the reversed rudder animation, adjust the transparency of the gauge faces and even tweak the fuel flow to match the values displayed in p3dd.

What values did you change for the FF and how close are they? could you put a reply in my topic about superchargers so we can compare notes?

thanks!

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Yes, please, dear PMDG, tell us something about... "help us xplane lovers/preferrers and let us know whats happening" (perfectly said indeed! :)

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8 hours ago, CrashTronic said:

What values did you change for the FF and how close are they? could you put a reply in my topic about superchargers so we can compare notes?

thanks!

I’m pretty sure I posted my notes in that thread already. I may even be using your values at this point, I can’t really recall.  As far as superchargers go, all that happens when you flip the switch is an increase in manifold pressure, but no increase in actual horsepower, if there is its in the single digits.  This produces an paradoxical effect as you have to reduce your throttle to compensate for the rise in MP, which lowers your HP.  I’m making up numbers here but as an example at 15000 feet and at 45” you get 1500hp, but flip on the blowers and reduce your throttle to get back to 45” and suddenly you’re at 1100hp.  This seems to be handled within the plugin which we cannot touch, so the impetus is on PMDG.  

Speaking of the plugin, in 11.10b4 the plugin doesn’t load when you load the plane, if you go into the enable/disable plugins page, you can enable the plugin and gain back all functionality, however you’ll have no sound.  To correct the sound bit, reload the flight by moving your position or changing another parameter to trigger a new flight, and then the sound returns.  

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8 hours ago, piperpiper said:

Yes, please, dear PMDG, tell us something about... "help us xplane lovers/preferrers and let us know whats happening" (perfectly said indeed! :)

Other than the XPL post already pinned in the general forum, no news means there is no news.  At this point, I'm not sure PMDG is planning to update the DC6 to XPL11 even if at one time they left it open as a possibility.  I do not speak for PMDG and have no inside knowledge but I think the experiment to see if developing products across different platforms revealed how difficult it is because there is so little in common between XPL and P3D and there is a growing gap between FSX and P3D.  I also think the XPL market turned out to be too small to support the expenditure that will be required to keep updating the DC6 every time LR makes changes to the platform.  Regardless of what I think, the pinned topic that I referenced says that after the DC6 is introduced to FSX/P3D and after the release to market time frame has passed they will then evaluate if they are going to keep up with both ever changing P3D and XPL platforms.  To date, there has been no announcement so it is futile to expect that there is news.  When there is news they will share it.

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The plane lived perfectly within XPlane world, would want to continue flying it in XP only. Very upsetting to know that it is abandoned, and about $70 spent on item that was released for a sim that was to be superseded by a new version in the next few months. Only flew it a dozen times before kaput. Sad.

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2 minutes ago, alexzar14 said:

Very upsetting to know that it is abandoned

This is disingenuous...

It was advertised for XP10. It was released for XP10. We maintain it for XP10.

The fact that you want it updated/upgraded/modified for a sim we never advertised, released or promised doesn't mean it's abandoned.

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I know, I'm not demanding or anything, just saying it is disappointing because it is a formality business and not like simulator hobby, customer relations and all that. I'm not a corporate lawyer, I'm a simmer.

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4 minutes ago, alexzar14 said:

I know, I'm not demanding or anything, just saying it is disappointing because it is a formality business and not like simulator hobby, customer relations and all that. I'm not a corporate lawyer, I'm a simmer.

Sure, but maintaining fact in proper context is general courtesy, whether you're a simmer, lawyer, or generic human. I fail to see your point about customer relations. If your version of customer relations is to simply do everything customers want, then I welcome you to start your own business in the sim realm. I have a feeling you won't hold that opinion for very long. Do we prefer to make people happy? Yes. Do we still need to make sound business decisions to remain a healthy business? Yes, absolutely. Does this mean occasionally not doing what customers want? Yes.

Again...let's not be disingenuous. Willfully distorting the context of language is irresponsible.

The product isn't abandoned just because you decided to change sim platforms. You abandoned the product, and the older sim platform for which it was made, not the other way around.

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Kyle you're overreacting and I don't know why )))) In my message I did not ask questions or requested clarifications. Since it is a solid business, and not some sort of a worshiping cult, I stated my disappointment, that's all. Like... you buy a teapot and then you say your thoughts, doesn't matter what the teapot factory is this or that.

Good news for me is the J41, happy to know it is coming, although a little upset there will be no fms, I wish there were 2 options set via manager. After some frustration learning this FMS at the beginning, it turned out to be very rewarding and fun. I like FMSes )))

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You are not alone, but I have barely any hopes now. Its clear that XP was never PMDG`s priority and this situation is not really that surprising. Hopefully the community members can help each other out and continue to share unofficial instructions to keep it flyable for the foreseeable future. 

Thiago Braun

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On 12/20/2017 at 8:58 AM, scandinavian13 said:

This is disingenuous...

It was advertised for XP10. It was released for XP10. We maintain it for XP10.

The fact that you want it updated/upgraded/modified for a sim we never advertised, released or promised doesn't mean it's abandoned.

And the fact that PMDG is leaving it's customers in the dark regarding something we've spent money on and would like to be able to use with a new platform doesn't mean it isn't absolutely rotten customer service. Y'all used to stand behind your products and your customers, the PMDG name meant you were getting a quality product with a company that would work to support how its customers wanted to use it. It's a damn shame that's turned into "you bought what you bought and we owe you nothing else."

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12 hours ago, lbarber said:

And the fact that PMDG is leaving it's customers in the dark regarding something we've spent money on and would like to be able to use with a new platform doesn't mean it isn't absolutely rotten customer service. Y'all used to stand behind your products and your customers, the PMDG name meant you were getting a quality product with a company that would work to support how its customers wanted to use it. It's a damn shame that's turned into "you bought what you bought and we owe you nothing else."

Lee,

I'm going to request that you explain this, if you don't mind. In the meantime, let me address what you've written so far, point by point:

  • We're leaving customers in the dark.
    I don't see how this is the case. The DC-6 was marketed for, designed for, and released for XP10. We currently support it on that platform. The fact that other platforms exist that may be compatible, or semi-compatible, with the XP10 version is irrelevant. If I were to take JetMoto, the original PlayStation (from the 90s) version, and toss it in my PS4 and it worked, great, but I'm not going to claim that SingleTrac is not keeping us in the dark about things because it hasn't released a comment about updating it to PS4. They marketed, designed, and released the product for the OG PlayStation. I spent money on it, yes, but that doesn't entitle me to have guaranteed compatibility, or even comment on possible compatibility, for future releases. It was a game for the OG PS. That's all it was intended for. Anything else is outside the scope of discussion...even if the game released right before the PS2 came out.
     
  • No guaranteeing forward compatibility is rotten customer service.
    This is, of course, your opinion, and one that you can base your personal purchasing decisions on, but I'm going to strongly disagree with you. It is not common to have this guaranteed. Where this is the case, it is explicitly stated by the developer, and there either either bundle deals (as we did with FS9 to FSX), or the dev states outright that a purchase will carry you through X timeframe (as we did when we announced P3D development).
     
  • We have somehow changed to not stand behind our products; and we should support how customers want to use it.
    Please provide evidence of this. As mentioned before, we stand behind the intended use of our software. Nothing is preventing anyone from using their product in the platform for which it was designed. If anyone were to have issues in that environment, we will gladly assist in helping them get it all working properly. The claim about supporting customers how they want to use it isn't true, and hasn't been true. If people report issues with our products because they're using DX10 in FSX, we will note that our product is not compatible with that use. Other shader mods can cause weird behaviors, EZDOK's camera shake actually injects its own physics into the sim, and so on. We fully support that users have different priorities when using our products, but some of those conflicts are ones that we cannot be held accountable for. If it kinda works in XP11, or 12, or 19, great. If it doesn't, then that's a fact of life, and this is not unusual with software. I have a ton of old XBOX games that don't work on my XBONE (one of the reasons I kept my 360 around). Some of them released right before the XBONE came out and I had to purchase a new copy to use it on the BONE. Stuff like this happens. It took extra effort. That comes at a cost.
     
  • You bought what you bought, and we owe you nothing else.
    Hate to say it, but it's true, and I don't see the issue with that. This is a business, and not a charity. In past, similar, cases, we offered either a bundled version (because the new sim had already been released by the time our aircraft was ready), or a slightly discounted version for a new product entirely for a sim that had newly released and we had decided to go through the extra efforts (and in the case of the P3D versions, the cost was front-loaded to cover the expected P3D versions).
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Still using the flawed Xbox 360/Xbox One analogy. As you know, they are completely different architectures. One is a PowerPC system and the other basically an x86 PC. It is nothing like XP10 and XP11. The fact that the DC-6 barely works on XP11 proves that the adaptation efforts would be nowhere near what a software developer would need to do to convert a 360 game to the X1. And, even then, the backwards compatibility program (an emulator, really) allows you to use hundreds of 360 games on the X1 for free! 

As I`ve said before, the DC-6 was released last year, not 5 or 6 years ago. It is a shame that we have to resort to hacks to use the product on a newer version of the very same platform originally intended to be used with the product. This new version, I repeat, was released just some months after the DC-6 came to market.

Other developers charged for the update to XP11. I would have no problem paying a fair price to have the product upgraded. Is that option even being considered?

I would appreciate if you did not lock the topic as you did the last time.

Thiago Braun

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1 hour ago, GCBraun said:

Still using the flawed Xbox 360/Xbox One analogy. As you know, they are completely different architectures. One is a PowerPC system and the other basically an x86 PC. It is nothing like XP10 and XP11. The fact that the DC-6 barely works on XP11 proves that the adaptation efforts would be nowhere near what a software developer would need to do to convert a 360 game to the X1. And, even then, the backwards compatibility program (an emulator, really) allows you to use hundreds of 360 games on the X1 for free! 

The analogy isn't flawed. It's a high level example of a lack of forward compatibility being guaranteed. I could use a number of Windows versions. FS9 versus FSX. Regardless of what analogy you want to use, updating things for a new platform costs dev time, unless the new version of the platform really isn't that much of a new version.

So, sure, 360 versus XBONE might be a lot more effort than XP10 versus XP11. I don't know. Regardless, both examples require work. Work costs time, and time costs money. And your backwards compatibility point only goes so far, so if we're nitpicking analogies, yours is flawed, too. Many work, but it also points to the fact that many don't, and require work, which requires time, which requires money. It also carries an opportunity cost to other products in development, too.

...but here's where it all falls apart, because it's the crux of the issue here: you stick a 360 game into the XBONE and it doesn't work. You shrug a bit and think "man, that sucks" and you move on. Here? People show up in the forum and accuse us of keeping them in the dark. It's not forward compatible. We never said it would be. Nor did Laminar assert that XP11 would carry backwards compatibility for XP10 items. If that's "in the dark" it's because people are turning the light out on their own and blaming it on someone else.

1 hour ago, GCBraun said:

As I`ve said before, the DC-6 was released last year, not 5 or 6 years ago. It is a shame that we have to resort to hacks to use the product on a newer version of the very same platform originally intended to be used with the product. This new version, I repeat, was released just some months after the DC-6 came to market.

Have you developed for both platforms, or are you making sweeping assumptions here?

The recency with which a new platform releases after an add-on is completely irrelevant. This is completely blown out of the water by your fifth line in the first quote, and the second line in the quote above: "it barely works" and "we have to resort to hacks." Why? The reason you have to resort to hacks is because the new sim has a changed behavior for something (and usually multiple things, as is the case here). The very fact that these incompatibilities exist is a testament to how different the platforms are. If it were as easy as a lot of you are claiming here, you'd be able to just hack it into XP11 just fine. This isn't the case, and let's not even get into the fact that it kinda worked in XP11, and then one of the later updates to the platform stopped all of that.

If any idea is flawed, it's the idea that it's easier to convert an add-on to XP11 simply because it released closer to when XP11 came out.

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Gents,

To reiterate something I said a while back:  To date with regard to XPLANE, we have done precisely what we said we intended to do at the beginning, which is to bring a world class simulation title into XPLANE in order to explore the ins and outs of how to make our existing processes work within the XPLANE platform.  We did this in order to educate ourselves, to gain some experience with the platform, evaluate it's suitability to support our entire product catalog and to learn about the customer base and the market. 

As of today- we have been able to do all of these things.

Once the DC-6 was released for XPLANE, we pivoted to providing a MAC compatible version, and then deployed our development assets in keeping with strategic development plan, which is still where those assets are deployed.  As I have stated a number of times, XPLANE11 came as a total and complete surprise to us- and thus wasn't part of our development agenda.  When we can cleave some developer time free, we might change this.  We might not...  That decision will come later and it won't be made based upon opinions or hollering or thumping of chests.  It will be made solely with an eye toward optimizing the best return on our development time, whether that means XPLANE, P3D, or even FS98, for crying out loud.

Now, I realize that a few folks gain immeasurable satisfaction by trying to turn every thread and every discussion into a self serving miasma of woe in which they portray themselves as a hapless victims of some nefarious scheme in which the horribly evil machinima of PMDG has done them wrong- but the bottom line is that this is nothing but dishonest bunk peddled by folks who haven't the slightest clue as to what is actually going on in the background.

So lets keep our eyes on the facts- ignore the self professed victims threatening to hurl themselves from ledges- and keep in mind that we do actually have a plan and a workflow agenda here at PMDG and we are sticking with that plan- even if a few people do slip and fall while trying to attract attention to themselves from those ledges in the mean time.

 

 

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