Ray Proudfoot

4K over 1920*1080 - what is the penalty

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Currently I'm running P3D v3.4 and with the hardware listed in my sig. performance is excellent at all airports including complex 3rd party ones.

I'm considering P3D v4 and would like to switch to 4K - 3840*2160 but I'm guessing performance would take a sizeable hit. Has anyone compared fps at both resolutions with all other factors unchanged?

Does 4K really require a 1080i or could I get away with a 1080? Thanks for all replies.

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Well going from 1080p to 4k, you have one thing in your favor here. You will be able to radically cut down AA. On 1080 you need a fair amount to smooth things out. At 4K you can half it of even more and still obtain razor clarity. 

In certain situations given what I said you could see an increase in FPS depending on weather and how many clouds are being rendered. If you have a 1080 it should be enough, however if you plan on keeping AA high or running UHD Clouds, or Texture_Size_Exp=9/10 you will consume all the VRAM on the 1080 and would require the Ti.

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Thanks Angelo. Given the extreme resolution I would probably drop AA. My FS PC is off at the moment so I can't check.

The 1080 copes well with most situations but where there is a lot of cloud and in multiple layers I can see the impact and there is a drop in fps down to 14-20.

Are you able to test both resolutions with identical weather and scenery settings and give me an idea of fps? AA off for 4K but on for 1920 please.

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Also keep in mind that the larger the monitor the more AA you will need.  I run a 40" at 4k an even 8x MSAA can have a fair amount of shimmering in the distance.  It gradually decreases as I fly closer and looks great on the ground though.  I'm on a 1060 so I'm also looking at upgrading to a TI in the future.  I may wait until the next round of cards is released for a price drop since it's a high cost to just to be able to run SSAA and reduce shimmering.

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@sfgiants13, the monitor (or more likely, TV) will be 40" max and I'll be sitting around 3ft from it. I don't anticipate using AA because fps is more important than shimmering / jagged edges.

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Ray,

I have a Samsung 43 in 4K monitor and just love it......and it is exactly 3 feet away. 

The added detail, especially when flying a PMDG airliner is spectacular.

You will not be disappointed!

However, be sure and get a monitor that supports 30Hz, there are several Samsung models that do.

Bill

 

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Your 1080 will be under heavy fire with dynamic Lights switched on.
Seriously forget clouds and the AA penalty they bring. DL will be your enemy no1 in most cases. Some airports/aircraft are not matched well at all with Dynamic Lighting turned on.
I have no problems maxing out my 1080ti during flights in dawn/dusk and night.

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What is the penalty? Like you wouldn't believe. 4 times more pixels to move around the screen. 4K needs a 1080ti no less. I have gone from a 1080 to a ti and it makes a lot of difference.

I have a BenQ 32in at 30hz with a 1080ti.

Cheers,

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Bill, thanks for the tip.

SAS443, I don't fly at night so DL won't be an issue.

Pierre, I would really appreciate some hard numbers.

Can anyone temporarily switch their display to 1920*1080 and run a test then do the same at native 4K? Honestly, that would be far more helpful than subjective posts.

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Ray,

8-10 fps difference using exactly the same settings. I7 8700K, GTX 1080Ti, 43" LG Monitor. 

Mike

 

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Ray,

4k is a different ball game. It is not like you're looking for more FPS as in fs9 and/or fsx. What you are looking for here is Smoothness, fluidity. That can not be expressed in numbers yet (although there are means of testing for dropped frames which might influence smoothness but I won't go into that here).

Again, in as far as 4k is concerned, the recipe is quite simple: a 30hz monitor and the most powerful video card available are the main ingredients.

Cheers,

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Hello,

My experience switching from FullHD with Nvidia 780Ti p3dv4 on decent visual settings to 4K resulted in decision to buy 1080Ti, it resulted in lowering AA setting, and increasing almost to maximum graphic settings, using almost all ORBX addons,Act.Sky,online flying and complex airliners. I’m very happy with performance ranging from really smooth 20ties fps at “heavy” scenery areas and heavy weather to 40-60 for the rest of the situations. My CPU is 4770K overclocked to 4,5GHz.RAM8GB and using only SSDs.(using samsung 100Hz QLED 65 inch TV with refresh rate locked to 60, and p3dv4 internal fps limiter and nvidia control panel fast sync option)

with best regards,

Rado

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1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Bill, thanks for the tip.

SAS443, I don't fly at night so DL won't be an issue.

Pierre, I would really appreciate some hard numbers.

Can anyone temporarily switch their display to 1920*1080 and run a test then do the same at native 4K? Honestly, that would be far more helpful than subjective posts.

Ray you can run a test yourself. Just setup x4 DSR (4x1080 = 4K) in NCP and select the virtual 4K in the sim. That's pretty much how your system will handle real 4K. Play with AA settings and see their effect.

gb.

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50 minutes ago, gboz said:

Ray you can run a test yourself. Just setup x4 DSR (4x1080 = 4K) in NCP and select the virtual 4K in the sim. That's pretty much how your system will handle real 4K. Play with AA settings and see their effect.

gb.

"...virtual 4K in the sim"

What does that mean. I've never seen a setting for virtual 4k in P3D. I thought 4K=2x1080?

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2 hours ago, mikealpha said:

Ray,

8-10 fps difference using exactly the same settings. I7 8700K, GTX 1080Ti, 43" LG Monitor. 

Mike

That's very helpful, thanks Mike. My worst fps hit is heavy cloud inbound to Aerosoft Xtended EGLL where the fps drops to high teens. That would drop to 10 or less so not flyable really.

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1 hour ago, ppo said:

Ray,

4k is a different ball game. It is not like you're looking for more FPS as in fs9 and/or fsx. What you are looking for here is Smoothness, fluidity. That can not be expressed in numbers yet (although there are means of testing for dropped frames which might influence smoothness but I won't go into that here).

Again, in as far as 4k is concerned, the recipe is quite simple: a 30hz monitor and the most powerful video card available are the main ingredients.

Cheers,

Pierre, yes, I appreciate that. I've had FS for 25 years so know smoothness is paramount.  I wouldn't want fps to drop below 15 in the worst scenarios.

It sounds like 4K is going to need a 1080i or even the next generation beyond that. For now, I think I'll keep things at 1920*1080. Being able to increase complexity without worrying about VAS will be a benefit but also reduces performance. It's all about getting that balance right.

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1 hour ago, gboz said:

Ray you can run a test yourself. Just setup x4 DSR (4x1080 = 4K) in NCP and select the virtual 4K in the sim. That's pretty much how your system will handle real 4K. Play with AA settings and see their effect.

gb.

I'll need to get P3D v4 first. Does that version provide a performance boost over v3.4 for the same situation?

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1 hour ago, gboz said:

Ray you can run a test yourself. Just setup x4 DSR (4x1080 = 4K) in NCP and select the virtual 4K in the sim. That's pretty much how your system will handle real 4K. Play with AA settings and see their effect.

gb.

This is a very good piece of advice.

I have a 1080ti card now, but with more modest settings, ran P3D v3.4 and 4 very comfortably at 4K with a GTX 980 (factory OC, but not a ti) for a year. Thd other big consumer of GPU cycles is frame related. If you're content with 30hz and keeping AA settings reasonable, 4K is easy.

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1920 to 4K, your PC has to process 4 times the data... 

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Ray, I'm running a 4k monitor on P3dv3.4 with a 780 GTX. I can only run medium high settings but it still looks great.

The biggest penalty is going to be with your beloved Concorde, which, as I understand it CTDs at 4k resolution........or do you now something about a new P3Dv4 version that hasn't been shared with the rest of us! :biggrin:  I can't imagine you would be thinking of getting a 4k monitor and P3Dv4 if you didn't know FSLabs was going to upgrade the Concorde for P3Dv4! :laugh:

I have not had the time to install a new SSD and P3Dv4 yet. In a couple weeks I'll be able to tell you how P3dV4 runs on 4k with a 780gtx and if I can get the concorde to work in P3dv3 in 4k . As others have stated I don't expect to be able to even think about using dynamic anything in P3dv4 with my 780gtx. One other thing I've read is that the some of the same settings in P3dv3 are not the same as P3dv4. In other words a medium setting in P3dv3 may not be the same as a medium setting in P3dv4.

Ted

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3 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

1920 to 4K, your PC has to process 4 times the data... 

Well yes, I had worked that out. :biggrin: What I was wondering is whether a 1080 had sufficient capacity to keep the frame rates reasonable. It would seem only with low-moderate settings.

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3 minutes ago, Ted Striker said:

Ray, I'm running a 4k monitor on P3dv3.4 with a 780 GTX. I can only run medium high settings but it still looks great.

The biggest penalty is going to be with your beloved Concorde, which, as I understand it CTDs at 4k resolution........or do you now something about a new P3Dv4 version that hasn't been shared with the rest of us! :biggrin:  I can't imagine you would be thinking of getting a 4k monitor and P3Dv4 if you didn't know FSLabs was going to upgrade the Concorde for P3Dv4! :laugh:

I have not had the time to install a new SSD and P3Dv4 yet. In a couple weeks I'll be able to tell you how P3dV4 runs on 4k with a 780gtx and if I can get the concorde to work in P3dv3 in 4k . As others have stated I don't expect to be able to even think about using dynamic anything in P3dv4 with my 780gtx. One other thing I've read is that the some of the same settings in P3dv3 are not the same as P3dv4. In other words a medium setting in P3dv3 may not be the same as a medium setting in P3dv4.

Ted

Ted, I have no idea what FSL have planned for Concorde. But given I can watch HD TV on my 55" OLED 4K TV I was thinking I could fly other less demanding aircraft at 4K but then set 1920*1080 for Concorde. The TV (not my OLED) should be able to downscale the image reasonably well.

I think you'll run out of VAS if you increase resolution much beyond 1920*1080. But can intermediate settings be used? Like 2560*1600. Just a thought.

On settings between the two sims that's an interesting point. P3D with the same settings as FSX showed far more objects but the performance was better. Maybe 64-bit will be better than any 32-bit sim. I'm amazed no-one has posted a video on YT showing all this stuff!

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2 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I have no idea what FSL have planned for Concorde

You got my hope up Ray! I was hoping you had some inside information. :biggrin:

I haven't tried my 55" sony 4k at 1920 x 1080. No desire to, but when I get the Concorde installed it may force my hand.

Going from a 1280 x 1024 monitor to a 4k screen my FPS dropped 15% at the same settings. My GPU usage doubled at the same settings.

Ted

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Ted,

You could just watch a FullHD YT video. That will tell you how good your Sony is. Pretty good I would have thought.

At least FSL haven't announced there won't be a v4 Concorde so I remain hopeful. Clearly they want to do it otherwise they wouldn't have asked those interested to write in.

That drop in fps doesn't sound too bad considering the increase in pixels.

 

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1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I'll need to get P3D v4 first. Does that version provide a performance boost over v3.4 for the same situation?

Hmmm.... maybe a bit. Problem with V4 is you really get used to to extra eye-candy so you do not want to go back to V3 levels.

gb.

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