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Dougal

5GHz Overclock and cooling

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After de-lidding and overclocking my i77700k, followed by installing a custom water cooling loop, I think I’m finally finished testing.  I’ve also applied and, I think understand, how to use Intel SpeedStep, combined with Adaptive and Offset cpu Voltages’.  Now, when the PC is idling, or under very light load, which is at least half of most days (PC on about 16hrs a day), the frequency backs right down to just 800MHz with vcore at only 0.667volts.  The cpu core temps hardly climb above ambient under these conditions. Hopefully, these components might last a bit longer than my normal overclocked bits which, even when dialed back, were previously supplied by manual and fixed overclock voltages.

I now have a solid 5GHz overclock, with peak temps maxing around 78c ONLY when stress testing.  When running P3Dv4, X-Plane 11, or other games I have installed, the temps are occasionally in the 60s but mostly hover around 57c to 60c.  Windows & P3D will launch at 5.2GHz, but the PC is not stable, and temps start to get out of hand.  Even at 5.1GHz, things are not completely stable, so I wound it back to 5GHz.  XMP at 3200MHz is also applied.

Delighted with this, and it’s been a truly great learning experience for me.

I used all EK parts the cooling loop, even their own compression fittings, and very happy with the build quality.

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Hi Phil,

I have my 7700K still sitting in it's packaging - what did you crack the shell with ? Still a few more parts to buy...

Do you use that liquid silver stuff inside the CPU ?

I'm hoping to hit 5Ghz on air - we'll see how Noctua performs...

Congrats on your system setup...

Regards,

Scott

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16 minutes ago, scottb613 said:

Hi Phil,

I have my 7700K still sitting in it's packaging - what did you crack the shell with ? Still a few more parts to buy...

Do you use that liquid silver stuff inside the CPU ?

I'm hoping to hit 5Ghz on air - we'll see how Noctua performs...

Congrats on your system setup...

Regards,

Scott

Hi Scott

After trying for ages to get a decent de-lidding tool, which are indefinitely out of stock, I bought a cheap 3D printed item from eBay.  They work just fine, but need 100% focus and concentration to avoid costly mistakes.

Yes, I used the liquid silver.

The 7700 seems to suffer from high temp spiking.

Providing you've got decent airflow through your case, I'm sure you'll get 5GHz with the great Noctua cooler.  It's a truly great cooler, but also enormous, and I hate not having easy access inside the case.

De-lidding makes a BIG difference. Or at least it has for me, twice.

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4 minutes ago, scottb613 said:

Hi Phil,

Yeah - I see the one popular model seems permanently out of stock - I thought I saw reference to a redesign in the works...

I was planning on trying this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Rockit-Delid-Relid-1150-1151-Intel/dp/B06WVYL61Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1515077815&sr=8-1&keywords=cpu+delid

Regards,
Scott

Yes looks MUCH better that what I used: De-Lid Tool

I watched many video tutorials and took my time.

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4 hours ago, scottb613 said:

Hi Phil,

Yeah - I see the one popular model seems permanently out of stock - I thought I saw reference to a redesign in the works...

I was planning on trying this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Rockit-Delid-Relid-1150-1151-Intel/dp/B06WVYL61Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1515077815&sr=8-1&keywords=cpu+delid

Regards,
Scott

 

 

I was lucky. I bought my Delid Die Mate 2 without any trouble a while ago when I built my daughters PC. The Rockit tool is supposed to be pretty good.

I used Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut Liquid metal. Don't get it mixed up with Kryonaut, that's not liquid metal and won't drop temps as much. There are two choices of course, either let the IHS float and hold it down with the socket clamp, or glue it back down a again. I chose to use a minuscule smear of UHU RTV Silicone and remount the IHS. I was very careful not to make the same mistake as Intel and use too much silicone glue. 

Dropped my daughters 7600K temp by about 17 degrees I recall. I wasn't expecting much more being an i5 and also the Intel application of TIM wasn't too bad to start with.

So good news is that the Die mate 2 I have will work with my 8700K when I delid it, hopefully in a few days. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, scottb613 said:

Hi Phil,

I have my 7700K still sitting in it's packaging - what did you crack the shell with ? Still a few more parts to buy...

Do you use that liquid silver stuff inside the CPU ?

I'm hoping to hit 5Ghz on air - we'll see how Noctua performs...

Congrats on your system setup...

Regards,

Scott

 

 

You "might" make 5 GHz.  My daughters delided 7600K does 5 GHz with an H100i V2. Although the i5 generally overclocks a bit higher I recall due to no HT.

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Hi Martin,

Thanks for all the info... Yeah - I have that Rockit tool in my cart along with the liquid metal - the thicker heat sink stuff for the shell of the CPU to the CPU cooler - and the high temp silicone to reseal the CPU... LOL - honestly - it's a damn shame we need to jump through these hoops and expense to get decent performance by fixing Intel's mistake...

Regards,
Scott

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It's fun to think we are in the age of 5ghz+ CPU's.

I built an 8700K box over the break and hit 5ghz with minor vcore increase. I am certain it has more headroom, but under load it hums along at 65º max, so I don't know if I want to go higher. (I probably will :wink:

Nice to see others breaking the barrier.

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7 minutes ago, mamush1950 said:

maybe a stupid question but what is delid.

Hi Peter,

I had some misunderstandings up until a few weeks ago myself - so don't feel alone...

Intel used really poor heat transfer material internal to the CPU - in some cases I read that there were even air gaps (the worst) - so no matter how fancy your CPU cooler is - it couldn't cool the chip properly as the heat is stuck inside the chip... I guess some brave soul decided to pop the cover off the CPU and noticed the problem... So the delid - is just that - removing the top of the CPU shell - removing all the original Intel heat transfer material (paste) - cleaning the surfaces - and applying a new high quality liquid metal heat transfer material - then sealing it back up for a normal install... I gather some choose to leave the cover off - I plan on putting it all back together... The problem is most pronounced in the Kaby Lake's...

Regards,

Scott

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39 minutes ago, scottb613 said:

Hi Martin,

Thanks for all the info... Yeah - I have that Rockit tool in my cart along with the liquid metal - the thicker heat sink stuff for the shell of the CPU to the CPU cooler - and the high temp silicone to reseal the CPU... LOL - honestly - it's a damn shame we need to jump through these hoops and expense to get decent performance by fixing Intel's mistake...

Regards,
Scott

 

It wasn't really a mistake by Intel. Cost cutting yes, but also now we're getting chips to 14 nm and a slow transition toward 10 nm, it's getting harder to solder. It's actually a very expensive and involved process to solder a metal IHS to a silicone die. Damage to the die becomes more likely. AMD are still soldering of course, probably because they're prepared to accept less profit per chip. 

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6 hours ago, Dougal said:

After de-lidding and overclocking my i77700k, followed by installing a custom water cooling loop, I think I’m finally finished testing.  I’ve also applied and, I think understand, how to use Intel SpeedStep, combined with Adaptive and Offset cpu Voltages’.  Now, when the PC is idling, or under very light load, which is at least half of most days (PC on about 16hrs a day), the frequency backs right down to just 800MHz with vcore at only 0.667volts.  The cpu core temps hardly climb above ambient under these conditions. Hopefully, these components might last a bit longer than my normal overclocked bits which, even when dialed back, were previously supplied by manual and fixed overclock voltages.

I now have a solid 5GHz overclock, with peak temps maxing around 78c ONLY when stress testing.  When running P3Dv4, X-Plane 11, or other games I have installed, the temps are occasionally in the 60s but mostly hover around 57c to 60c.  Windows & P3D will launch at 5.2GHz, but the PC is not stable, and temps start to get out of hand.  Even at 5.1GHz, things are not completely stable, so I wound it back to 5GHz.  XMP at 3200MHz is also applied.

Delighted with this, and it’s been a truly great learning experience for me.

I used all EK parts the cooling loop, even their own compression fittings, and very happy with the build quality.

Hey, those are exactly my settings and temps with 2700K @4.8GHz. I do belive SpeedStep, combined with Adaptive and Offset cpu Voltages are the key, this is why i'm against automatic OC. Mine is running at 4.8GHz for 6 Years now, no signs of degrading or whatever... I had it at 4.9 for a while, no problems but i couldn't see any benefit for FSX(at that time), so i decided 4.8 is enough. It was stable at 5.0 too, but i though this is too much for air cooling(noctua). Let us know about performance with P3D at this settings :happy:  I'm going to buy new PC soon, so i'm realy curious

.

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15 minutes ago, scottb613 said:

Hi Peter,

I had some misunderstandings up until a few weeks ago myself - so don't feel alone...

Intel used really poor heat transfer material internal to the CPU - in some cases I read that there were even air gaps (the worst) - so no matter how fancy your CPU cooler is - it couldn't cool the chip properly as the heat is stuck inside the chip... I guess some brave soul decided to pop the cover off the CPU and noticed the problem... So the delid - is just that - removing the top of the CPU shell - removing all the original Intel heat transfer material (paste) - cleaning the surfaces - and applying a new high quality liquid metal heat transfer material - then sealing it back up for a normal install... I gather some choose to leave the cover off - I plan on putting it all back together... The problem is most pronounced in the Kaby Lake's...

Regards,

Scott

 

It's not "really poor" to be honest. It's Dow Corning paste which is somewhere in the middle of the pack for TIM. But of course solder has much better heat transfer and that was the way it was done with Intel Chips till recently. Trouble is, Intel also use a thick line of silicone glue to attach the IHS back on. That think line of silicone glue around the perimeter necessitates and equally thick application of TIM.

Leaving the cover off is referred to as bare die mounting, which isn't done very often and not advised. It can damage the die. What is done, is to let the IHS float loosely, and then rely on the socket mounting clam to hold it in place. Either that, or like me, you can reattach with a very thin smear of silicone just at the corners.  

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I also used a smear of silicon, making sure NOT to let it even semi set before clamping IHS back down.  Didn't want anything at all trying to keep those mating surfaces apart.  I made that mistake with my 6700k and do it again:-(

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1 hour ago, martin-w said:

Leaving the cover off is referred to as bare die mounting, which isn't done very often and not advised. It can damage the die. 

I second this. It's very VERY easy to crush the die if you don't know the exact pressure tolerances. 

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12 hours ago, Dougal said:

I also used a smear of silicon, making sure NOT to let it even semi set before clamping IHS back down.  Didn't want anything at all trying to keep those mating surfaces apart.  I made that mistake with my 6700k and do it again:-(

 

Yep, I'm sure you've seen those bonkers delidding videos, where they run a thick line of silicone around the entire perimeter and then are bemused as to why the temp didn't drop much.

Worse still was Linus Tech Tips, where Linus used ordinary TIM he had lying around, so not liquid metal, plus a thick layer of silicone... then proclaimed delidding was a waste of time.  :biggrin:

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15 hours ago, lodestar said:

Hey, those are exactly my settings and temps with 2700K @4.8GHz..

Hi Zeljko,

Yeah - same processor - I've been running my 2700K @ 4.7Ghz with the simple - one setting - OC where the mobo manages the voltages... With a Noctua the temps were around 80C under load - been running that way for about five years now... That top end Sandy is a real work horse...

Honestly - with my top end GTX970 it handles P3Dv4 with the usual suspects of addons and realistic settings pretty nicely... The real reason for my upgrade is I'd like a 21:9 or 4K view on the world so I figured I'd need some more horsepower...

Regards,
Scott

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16 hours ago, scottb613 said:

I've been running my 2700K @ 4.7Ghz with the simple - one setting - OC where the mobo manages the voltages

Yes, i tried that for a few days and i saw some very high Vcore and decided to do it manualy. I like it much better this way, my temps are arround 65C under load :happy:

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On 1/4/2018 at 9:16 AM, Dougal said:

I think understand, how to use Intel SpeedStep, combined with Adaptive and Offset cpu Voltages’. 

This is exactly what I want to do with my 8700K....problem is I have no idea where to start.  Can you point me in the right direction (I realize it is a different chip).  I also don't really want to delid but also will be fine with 4.7 or 4.8 so I think that will be ok to leave the chip as original.  

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9 hours ago, MarkW said:

This is exactly what I want to do with my 8700K....problem is I have no idea where to start.  Can you point me in the right direction (I realize it is a different chip).  I also don't really want to delid but also will be fine with 4.7 or 4.8 so I think that will be ok to leave the chip as original.  

 

 

 If all you need is a 4.7 GHz overclock with the 8700K, then simply enable XMP and make sure Multi Core Enhancement is on. That way the board will run all cores at the max Turbo frequency of 4.7 GHz. Plus all power saving features will be enabled. Make sure Windows is set to Balanced though, if set to max performance it wont clock back and drop voltage.

Of course, with MCE on, Asus (or other board manufacturer) will be guessing the required voltage and basing it on their auto rules. For this reason, gradually tweaking the voltage down can reduce temp. 

 

 Nice manual overclocking guide below at 5:05

 

 

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Thanks for the link Martin, I definitely want the voltage to drop back down when not under load.

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XMP plus MCE and voltage and frequency will drop when not under load. You can always tweak the voltage down after if you desire. Not sure if Auto Rules uses offset or adaptive. In ether case you can tweak it. 

I'm upgrading Mark. Asus Maximus X Code and 8700K... will probably be installing on Monday. Overclocking after. I'll have more to say then. 

 

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1 hour ago, MarkW said:

Thanks for the link Martin, I definitely want the voltage to drop back down when not under load.

Hi Mark.

I agree with Martin.  If you're only looking for 4.7GHz (certainly enough), then you certainly don't need to delid, and just do exactly as he suggested.  I've always had success going with his suggestions too.

I only kept going up with GHz for 'fun' and to experiment.  TBH, with P3D, I don't see any difference between 4.7 & 5 GHz

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