I have debated posting this, but frustration with those selling FS9 add-ons has finally won. I will not name names, so please do not take offense to this post. I am just stating my experience with "some" people/companies/entities selling FS9 add-ons. If you intend to honor my purchase for a set amount of time, please state so in the sales agreement. If you plan to spend very limited time fixing problems, please state so in the sales agreement.If you are expecting fellow customers to manage your support forum by answering all customer questions, please state so in the sales agreement.If you don't visit the support forum, and expect customers to email you directly, but don't plan to answer emails either, please state so in the sales agreement.I understand people's desire to offer add-ons for FS. What I have found is that some cannot dedicate the time and effort to honor a sale. If you take my money, please have the courtesy to provide support. I have been using FS for a very, very long time. I have spent a considerable amount of money on FS9 products. However, as the subject line states, it will be different with FSX.A very cheerful thank you to those who do support their products. SD

A lot of truth to this post. There are some really good companies though that DO provide support (as in timely, competent, courteous, and helpful). Realair, Reality XP, and Dreamfleet are particularly outstanding in terms of customer support. FlightSim Developers.....errrrr, uhhhhhh, ummmmmmm, let's just not even go there :)Wanna have have some fun in a typically unresponsive support forum? Post a technical question which you know will go unheeded. You'll hear the wind rustle through the leaves, streams gurgling, birds chirping - you get the picture. Now, post a message that you want to buy the product but you can't get your credit card to work. OH BOY, this gets em in gear, hehe. The product's developers come out from behind trees, under rocks, out of hidden caves, etc, etc, to come to your immediate aid! :) Never fails.Again, there are good folks out there who do really support their products, but they are indeed interspersed amongst the less than helpful.

That's why I usually check out some user reviews first, before I buy. I refuse to buy add-ons from "companies" with a questionable support system - may it be activation, product support or non-existant upgrades. That is the only way to show them the power of the customer and force them to change.I have done fairly well with my purchases so far and no complaints about any product that I have bought recently. And my external HDD of commercial FS-addons spans right now 9.47 GB.Pat

worse yet are the developers who wont even let you in their forums (forget the posting, just reading is off limits)a BIG no go in my opinion

Good post SD. Pretty sound set of guidelines any one should follow when selling products or services.-John

Case in point. After purchasing Commerciallevel's so-called "Airbus A 340/350" combo package, I posted a couple of questions on their support forum. This was about a month ago. Lol, I'm still waiting for the answer, even though one of their employees promised an "answer later today," today, as in on the day I posted. Needless to say, my credit card purchase went through without a hitch. http://www.commerciallevel.com/forum/index...?showtopic=1575ricardo

A related issue: With a certain big name developer a common initial response is, in effect, "we have not had others complain about this so the problem must be you". By contrast, other companies take every frustrated user seriously even if the problem is unique to that user. I have had this type of positive experience with Aeroworx, FS Passengers, My Traffic, ActiveSky, FS FlightKeper, and most recently Radar Contact. I marvel at their patience sometimes, even when it is clear to me that the problem is specific to a particular installation and not going to affect the rest of us. I consider this "every customer counts" service a real benchmark for service. So another maxim: If you don't expect to address a problem unless it affects a significant segment of your user base, say so in the sales agreement.

Most don't care about repeat customers. So once they make the sale, that's it. They know that another bunch will buy the next thing they sell and so on the cycle goes. The profit margins are HUGE with the only thing invested being time, in most instances. If they have the time, they can keep rolling stuff out and not bother with support. Bad ethics galore but people should finally begin voting with their pocketbook. thing is, most never even read such posts to know better.

Only comment I need to make is that once a product has been activated once. It should not require it any more.If the file we buy is activated it should stay that way but, it dosen't. .....And as we all know it's a 'big pain in the neck' after.It's disk's for me from now on.Dave T. .........On the Devon Riviera and active 'FlightSim User's Group' member at http://www.flightsimgrpuk.free-online.co.uk/http://www.captainsim.com/user/dl/c130/c130_captain.gifhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg

There are some products I would buy even with no support as listed above. However, it would be really nice to know up front what they were planning before the purchase.Now the way I work on FS stuff and testing - I've had to rebuild my FS setup a few times - and never had trouble with some of the "problem companies" on activating a reinstall of their products. I've had to contact support on occasion but that's always been a pleasant experience.My biggest frustration is one of the "best companies" above in trying to get their gauges to work on some aircraft. I use FSPanel Studio - and their gauges are setup so that I must edit the panel.cfg files in the text mode.One thing I would say about developers and products being sold right now.I don't think any developer can honestly say at this point what their upgrade policy will be for FSX. I have my ideas about what will be easy to move forward and what will not. I think I'll lose one of my favorite aircraft, and some older and much less FPS friendly scenery.But as of May/June - I seriously doubt the developers know enough to be sure.Maybe in October or November, but not now.

Hello SD:I guess regarding your frustrations and whether I share them gives an answer of yes and no.I have been fortunate enough to have had little more than an introduction to the problems mentioned in your final four listings but just enough to certainly understand. You struck home in your first issue.As per previous posts, I had a dandy computer crash not too long ago and had to reinstall everything. I had a BUNCH of payware. One does not realize how much they have accumulated over the years until....I pretty well had all of the keys, confirmations of purchase, etc. backed up with the exception of the following. My "Yes" in full agreement with what you have said is primarily regarding your issue of: "If you intend to honor my purchase for a set amount of time, please state so in the sales agreement." Wouldn't you know it, an item purchased from such a supplier was the only thing that I overlooked somewhere along the line and could not recover. Fortunately I purchased one of the less expensive items from this supplier. When I went to their site, they had a notification that they had revised thier procedure (to make it easier on me Ha Ha)and that unless you paid them more money for a guaranteed extension when you made your purchase all was lost after "a set amount of time." I think my purchase was made long before they even had that policy from which there is no recourse. I was just to the point of purchasing their two most expensive packages, but if this is their policy I am debating whether I want to deal with them regardless of how fine a mouse trap they supply. They already are in the high priced bracket and now want me to pay more if I am going to ever be able to redownload anything after a disaster.Now my "no" answer in agreement is not meant to be argumentative or anything of that nature, but just to present a bright side to this issue. I was able to recover everything else I had, and as said earlier there was a bunch (Took several weeks, but of course everything wasn't unique to FS, although it was the majority). It amazed me that in some cases very little retention of purchasing documentation was even needed, and how helpful other suppliers were. Some suppliers have everything on record that one has purchased in a named account and they may be redownloaded from that link without any other certification. Just open your account and download it again. The most impressive is flight1 (IMHO). If you can just remember what your email address was for anything you downloaded from them, you are in business. They can then send you another email with authorization codes and purchase confirmations and it is like you were purchasing the items for the first time (but no money). My only problem was with a couple of birdseye view seasons. Told birdseye about it and they immediately emailed me direct links for the downloads. I wish everybody used flight1 for the sale of their contributions.I know how it must feel sometimes, but don't loose heart. There are many contributors out there that aim to please. HANG IN THERE!Happy flying and best of luck:RTH1585368CFI

>Most don't care about repeat customers. So once they make the>sale, that's it. They know that another bunch will buy the>next thing they sell and so on the cycle goes. >>The profit margins are HUGE with the only thing invested being>time, in most instances. If they have the time, they can keep>rolling stuff out and not bother with support. >>Bad ethics galore but people should finally begin voting with>their pocketbook. thing is, most never even read such posts to>know better. Not really......I've beta tested products for several 3rd party vendors, and really respect the process. It's a "whole" lot of time of research, programming, re-programming, re-programming again, programming some more, and then distribution, followed by some headaches that didn't occur on the beta testers machines. The "better" vendors, care very much about repeat customers. I myself, look at the quality of the product, and the fact that I know the experience of the programmers. I put those two items above customer service. I happen to know that some outfits are highly experienced in programming FS models thanks to year after year of experience. And I also know that some of the companies are not big enough to have the "highly experienced" programming artist deal with constant customer service at the same time. It's just the way it is. If you desire the perfect customer service & good product at the same time, then it's up to the buyer. I have no problem with that. Yet, I'll put up with some quirks in customer service if the end product has a known value.L.Adamson

>Most don't care about repeat customers. So once they make the>sale, that's it. They know that another bunch will buy the>next thing they sell and so on the cycle goes. >>The profit margins are HUGE with the only thing invested being>time, in most instances. If they have the time, they can keep>rolling stuff out and not bother with support. HUGE profit margins? Where? I'll go to work for them!This is so much uninformed drek that it's not even funny...If this LITTLE cottage industry were so HUGELY profitable, I'd not have to be on food assistance and get state assistance to pay the winter heating bill... }( Get a CLUE dude!

>If you are expecting fellow customers to manage your support>forum by answering all customer questions, please state so in>the sales agreement.>>If you don't visit the support forum, and expect customers to>email you directly, but don't plan to answer emails either,>please state so in the sales agreement.> Excellent post SD. The two examples above have been a huge bone of contention with me regarding a certain scenery addon company (who shall remain nameless in the spirit of the thread). Having a "support forum" is useless unless the company representatives visit it and offer support. The usual response from the forum regulars is to e-mail or call the company. That usually meets with little repsonse as well. The moral of the story is to support the developers who provide the service/support and don't purchase from the ones who don't, unless they're clear about their policies.

What makes it hard on everyone, on both ends, is that developers who are trying to address potential real issues with their products are often wading through a sea of support inquiries that are entirely avoidable because they're related to the user's sim settings that work fine for some things but flip out when you try to do somehting else... this can lead to some serious burn out for the developer who's buried in such inquiries.Case in point is a thread called "Urban Myth" in the Panel and Aircraft Developer's forum. *Every* time you start a flight or change an aircraft, the program looks at the record of every switch and condition of *the last* aircraft you were flying and uses this as a starting point. In a saved flight, it's the same aircraft. In a created flight, it looks to the default aircraft in the default flight situation (on the ground, idling, etc. etc.).Let's say you love soaring... and you save a soaring session as your default flight....Then you buy an aircraft that has a provided saved flight so that all 4 engines are idling when you start the flight and a gazillion custom gadgets are all set in their properly initialized state.Now, you create a new flight with your shiny new aircraft and spend half the day wanting to punch the computer screen because NOTHING works!Remember, the create a flight menu refers to the switches and aircraft state of the default flight... which you changed to a glider that has only the simplest of instrumentation.So, you write the developer an email or post in the forum... but the developer has seen so many of these same emails for the last month that he's on Prozac and on a Doctor's orders vacation in Bora-Bora, without so much as a cell phone.After 3 days of cursing and fighting with the thing, you finally decide to try to see if you can "save" this disaster before deleting it and getting VISA to stop the charges by doing the only thing you haven't tried so far...Using the provided saved flight that initializes all the things on that aircraft properly.*****Yes, there ARE real issues with add on products. Yes, developers DO need to be responsive to them. But users also need to be aware that if every user would simply keep the original default flight as default, or use the provided saved flight and then re-save that aircraft at your favorite airport, then it honestly might cut down as much as HALF the support requests a developer gets buried under.Sometimes the reason someone dosn't get back to you in a reasonable time isn't that they don't care... it's that they've been suffocated by issues similar to the above.There's frustration all around. Hopefully, little insights like this could help make everyone's experiences less stressful and more enjoyable.Scott / Vorlin