We can create settings that seem to work OK in one area and not the next. We might have a subsystem within P3D that is already at the redline, so nothing's going to happen more quickly there, and yet there's slack in other parts. We can add addons that introduce certain lags. We can use weather and no matter how it is injected will only creep through the system as quickly as it can go interpolating between stations. If too much for a system you come across some weather and the system meets another redline elsewhere. So unless a system is very well set for testing, we don't have much idea other than how THAT system performs.

Hi Steve,

I've been reading your tips in this topic with great interest. It's alot to digest as I'm not particularly a tech buff.

So if I understand correctly, even in a multi-monitor setup one should do the initial testing of maximum frame rates with one monitor. What I mean is that one should only use one window in P3DV4 and remove all undocked windows/panels. Is this correct?

I've noticed however as soon as I use a undocked window, then the FPS drops dramatically. In what manner should I take this into consideration when determining the max FPS to lock at when doing the initial tests? 

Kind regards,

Dave

Hi Dave,

If I understand you correctly that seems to have an error condition. An undocked window that reduces the framerate by half would be indicative of a setup error in the GPU configuration. Can you get the system working so that the fps is about the same with an undocked panel? If you saw my notes around, on the Nvidia Restore/Apply in the Nvidia Control Panel, 3D section, Restore apply the main tab and do the same to the p3d profile if listed, Prepar3D.exe. If the Restore is greyed out so that the button can't be used, make any change to the profile and save it, then return to the profile and restore apply it now. Seems an odd thing to need to do but ensures a freshening of the system settings. Use a P3D profile rather than rely on the main tab. That's the first thing to check if things are not right. Similarly this might be necessary after updating the drivers or experience package.

Edited December 17, 20187 yr by SteveW

With regard to the rest of the question: Reducing the system to the simple state before enhancing means we don't venture on with any problems.

Making use of two monitors is the same as increasing the resolution to P3D, which incidentally is harder on the system than adding or increasing resolution in FSX. So the switch to one monitor and removal of undocked panels is in fact an initial test to prove the system.

Move onto the full resolution desired but with settings low enough so that the CPU does not reach 100% on any core when the simulator is at rest. Limiting in some way usually with VSync=On in the P3D display settings and the fps slider set to Unlimited, enables the simulator to cut out the amount of work It will do in-between each frame. P3D is not a regular game app and continues to splice in work whatever the fps available. So we can find the available fps by VSync=Off when Unlimited. Frames above the refresh rate of the monitor will indicate the system can maintain, or not, the fps of the VSync (which can be reduced with a monitor profile). Bringing in eye candy increases stress on the CPU until it reaches 100% at rest on the main core. After which the simulator slows down or stutters are introduced as time is found to insert data that interrupts the flow. So it's best to configure the sim to have overhead.

When the sim is loading, several cores will see 100%, that's normal.

Edited December 17, 20187 yr by SteveW

1 hour ago, SteveW said:

Hi Dave,

If I understand you correctly that seems to have an error condition. An undocked window that reduces the framerate by half would be indicative of a setup error in the GPU configuration. Can you get the system working so that the fps is about the same with an undocked panel? If you saw my notes around, on the Nvidia Restore/Apply in the Nvidia Control Panel, 3D section, Restore apply the main tab and do the same to the p3d profile if listed, Prepar3D.exe. If the Restore is greyed out so that the button can't be used, make any change to the profile and save it, then return to the profile and restore apply it now. Seems an odd thing to need to do but ensures a freshening of the system settings. Use a P3D profile rather than rely on the main tab. That's the first thing to check if things are not right. Similarly this might be necessary after updating the drivers or experience package.

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your replay. I've done the following in the Nvidia Control Panel, 3D section:

In the General settings tab I pressed the restore to default settings and pressed apply;
In the profiles for Prepar3D, the restore to default settings was indeed greyed out. Problem was that I don't have any option to save the settings;
What I then saw was above the tabs for general settings and profile settings, there was an option to restore standard settings. I clicked on that button. So effectively I'm now at the standard default setting on the GPU configuration.

With the standard non modified Nvidia settings, I started P3Dv4 and selected a standard a/c and one of the default airfields. The following figures are the FPS I was getting:

Without any undocked views/panels I was hitting between 79 and 85 FPS;
With one undocked panel the frame rates dropped to 64 - 75 FPS;
I then closed the undocked panel;
With one undocked VC view the frame rates dropped to 42 - 50 FPS;
Opening a second undocked VC view the frame rates dropped further to 31 - 35 FPS.
I have in total 3 displays on my laptop: the laptop display + 2 external monitors (connected via 1 HDMI port and 1 mini-display port). When I move the 2 undocked VC views to the external monitors, the frame rates remain the same 31 - 35 FPS.

As far as I can see I'm now using the default Nvidia settings. At this stage the processor is at around 32-33% with only 1 out of the 8 cores maxed out.

In your second post you did say that using extra monitors makes it harder on the system which I fully understand.

The following are the specs of my laptop. This is not a very high-end system, but I don't believe that it's a low-end system either:

Product Name:                 GT62VR 7RE
OS:                           Microsoft Windows 10 Home 64 bits Ver.1709
CPU:                          Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz 
                                   running at approx 3.5GHz in high performance mode
Memory:                       16 GB @ 1200 MHz
                               - 8192 MB, DDR4-2400, Samsung M471A1K43BB1-CRC    
                               - 8192 MB, DDR4-2400, Samsung M471A1K43BB1-CRC    
Graphics:                     NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070, 8192 MB
Drive:                        SSD, SAMSUNG MZNLN256HMHQ-00000, 238,47 GB
Drive:                        HDD, HGST HTS721010A9E630, 931,51 GB

Do you find the FPS figures to be abnormal? The latest Nvidia drivers are installed and with each update of the driver I perform a clean install.

Kind regards,

Dave

With the defaults installed it seems most likely then to be simply showing the drop in performance with driving the extra resolutions on that system. The one core at 100% is the main rendering and this is what I was saying about setting up with overhead. When at 100% it can only drop fps to do more work.

I’m not surprised by the frame drops on your system when you undock and move those displays, I think that’s to be expected.

Joe

19 hours ago, SteveW said:

With the defaults installed it seems most likely then to be simply showing the drop in performance with driving the extra resolutions on that system. The one core at 100% is the main rendering and this is what I was saying about setting up with overhead. When at 100% it can only drop fps to do more work.

Hi Steve, 

What do you recommend? Can I change any settings to accommodate for this, or am I at the absolute maximum of what my system can handle? 

Kind regards

Dave

5 hours ago, joepoway said:

I’m not surprised by the frame drops on your system when you undock and move those displays, I think that’s to be expected.

Joe

Hi Joe, 

Thanks for your reply. Can you recommend any changes I can make on my system or settings to improve the results? 

Kind regards, 

Dave

48 minutes ago, davetfc said:

Hi Steve, 

What do you recommend? Can I change any settings to accommodate for this, or am I at the absolute maximum of what my system can handle? 

Kind regards

Dave

Seems to be all it can do, you might be able to extract a little more. Perhaps adjust texture resolution down to 512, maybe try [SCENERY]SmallPartRejectRadius=3 or 4 might give you a few percent, Observe AM rules for the sim and addon exe apps.

2 hours ago, davetfc said:

Hi Joe, 

Thanks for your reply. Can you recommend any changes I can make on my system or settings to improve the results? 

Kind regards, 

Dave

Dave

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eeb6y9q83c31ftk/P3Dv4.4 Settings Chart 12-05-2018.xlsx?dl=0

The link above is to an Excel  settings spreadsheet I use and put in Dropbox.

It has all the P3Dv4.4 settings and Active Sky. Take a look and see what I run in various scenarios as a reference.

The columns are my settings for:

P3Dv4.3 when I ran in my 2D monitor mode

Native VR settings with my Oculus Rift in Single Pass Rendering mode

and now P3Dv4.4 when I fly in 2D monitor mode

These settings work for me and I don't expect them to work for you but I also color coded the ways different settings effect CPU and GPU performance based on work Rob A. did awhile back coupled with my experience. However, I have not updated the effects colors for v4.4 but they are still pretty good indicators. If you would like to clear out my P3D settings and fill in yours and send it to me via private message I can take a look. You are running a triple monitor set-up with a laptop as I understand it so you will have to dial things back quite a bit I would imagine.

Joe

Option in NVI- ''Texture filtering - Negative LOD bias: Clamp''

I have this set at ''Allow'', can anyone advise what this does and if what setting ''Clamp'' achieves.

I experimented with having U/L FR in P3d and Vsync & TB on, I was getting between 55-60 FPS external view PMDG 737 in UK with Orbx EU LC and around 30-34 in VC, the scenery was looking great with no blurries, I used FFTF dynamic to  the FPS 30-60 and the FTFF to 0.01- 0.40 which seems to work perfectly.

The refresh rate was set to 1/2 in NVI, but this would appear not to be needed.(I will see if so next time I fly)

On 4/15/2018 at 9:33 PM, Slayer said:

Experiment with fast sync yet?

If 1/2 refresh doesn't effect the P3d, how does fast sync work and how will it effect p3d.

As I have a gaming laptop, with Intel 530 onboard graphics and GTX980m Nvidia, I have default setting as the onboard and only have P3d allocated to the GTX. There isnt anyway of reducing the Monitor from 60Hz refresh.

10 hours ago, joepoway said:

Dave

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eeb6y9q83c31ftk/P3Dv4.4 Settings Chart 12-05-2018.xlsx?dl=0

The link above is to an Excel  settings spreadsheet I use and put in Dropbox.

It has all the P3Dv4.4 settings and Active Sky. Take a look and see what I run in various scenarios as a reference.

The columns are my settings for:

P3Dv4.3 when I ran in my 2D monitor mode

Native VR settings with my Oculus Rift in Single Pass Rendering mode

and now P3Dv4.4 when I fly in 2D monitor mode

These settings work for me and I don't expect them to work for you but I also color coded the ways different settings effect CPU and GPU performance based on work Rob A. did awhile back coupled with my experience. However, I have not updated the effects colors for v4.4 but they are still pretty good indicators. If you would like to clear out my P3D settings and fill in yours and send it to me via private message I can take a look. You are running a triple monitor set-up with a laptop as I understand it so you will have to dial things back quite a bit I would imagine.

Joe

Hi Joe, 

Thanks for the tips. I'm out of town right now, but I'll get back to you on my return. 

Kind regards

Dave

After reading this thread, first post to last, no wonder I’m now confused and totally overwhelmed.  Wow!

I can only speak for myself, but I get the best and smoothest performance with Vsync on and triple buffering, and unlimited frames in P3D settings and in NVI, smooth as silk, no stutters or hesitation to speak of, and I have all the graphics sliders at or very near max.

i7 8700k, 16 gb of G Skill 2666 ddr 4 ram, GeForce GTX 1080Ti with 11 gb ddr 5, and running P3D v4.4 on a 1tb M2 NVMA SSD

Display is a 32" HP32Q monitor with P3D running at 2560x1440 screen resolution.

I tried locking frames at 30 in NVI just to see how it compared. In all honesty I couldn't see much if any difference, but it appeared to induce a few micro stutters so I went back frame limiter "off" in NVI.

Edited December 19, 20187 yr by SunDevil56