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him225

Vsync without triple buffering and fps

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I have a 60hz monitor and get 40-45 fps in a scenario but with micro stutters. If I lock the internal fps limiter to 30 I get a very smooth sim. So I decided to only enable vsync which should lock the frame rate to 60, 30 or 20 as performance allows, but it didn't happen so and fps still linger in the 40s. The fps usually locks to the multiples in games when used without enabling triple buffering, so why it is not in p3d?

Edited by him225

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I think vsync syncs to the refresh rate of your monitor, so a 60hz monitor will sync to 60fps. You’ll see stutters below this figure. 

I solved this by getting a monitor that supports 30hz (hence a 30fps rate) resulting in a very smooth sim. 

I believe that you can force a 60hz monitor to 30hz with nvidia inspector these days, but I can’t say I’ve tried it. 


website-splash-screen-smaller-.png| Ben Weston www.airline2sim.com 

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54 minutes ago, Airline2Sim said:

I believe that you can force a 60hz monitor to 30hz with nvidia inspector these days, but I can’t say I’ve tried it. 

I think that depends on your monitor: you can give it a try and see for yourself. My monitor didn't like it at all: I only got a black screen. :happy:

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Experiment with fast sync yet?

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Steve McNitt

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Triple buffering is nowadays forced in the nVidia drivers (even if there are still some people claim otherwise...). Triple buffering has the effect that the FPS do not drop down to 30 anymore if your monitor uses 60Hz and 60FPS are not reached. Those times are gone.


Greetings, Chris

Intel i7-8700K@5.0GHz, 2x16GB 3200MHz CL14 RAM, Gigabyte AORUS 1080Ti, Windows 10 Home 64bit, Prepar3D 4.5

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I change my monitor's refresh rate using nvidia control panel and then lock the internal fps to that refresh rate. (i use 24 or 30 depending on the plane i am flying); I also have vsync enabled.

I get very smooth and perfect performance as long as my rig can can maintain the fps that i set; which is about 99% of the time.

 

 

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I read a few times VSync doesn't work with windowed applications (which is the case of P3D v4, since it doesn't run true fullscreen). I was one who used to set the screen to 30 Hz and enabled VSync inside P3D and it worked nicely except for two things: the mouse pointer always felt sluggish and whenever the FPS fell below 30 the stutterers were massive.

Nowadays I set the refresh rate back to 60 Hz and set 30 FPS inside NVidia Inspector, which gives me a very smooth experience, even when the FPS falls bellow 30 and the mouse pointer is also very smooth to deal with. Inside P3D the FPS is unlimited, no signs of distracting blurring.


Best regards,

 

Wanthuyr Filho

 

qpwqa8-6.png

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5 hours ago, Wanthuyr Filho said:

I read a few times VSync doesn't work with windowed applications (which is the case of P3D v4, since it doesn't run true fullscreen). I was one who used to set the screen to 30 Hz and enabled VSync inside P3D and it worked nicely except for two things: the mouse pointer always felt sluggish and whenever the FPS fell below 30 the stutterers were massive.

Nowadays I set the refresh rate back to 60 Hz and set 30 FPS inside NVidia Inspector, which gives me a very smooth experience, even when the FPS falls bellow 30 and the mouse pointer is also very smooth to deal with. Inside P3D the FPS is unlimited, no signs of distracting blurring.

After much experimentation I concur with the above solution. Also turn off that FPS counter....very smooth flight without that worry of "why can't I just try and get 55FPS smooth with one more tweak...". :cool:

Shez

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Shez Ansari

Windows 10 Home 64-bit; CPU: Intel Core i7-8700K; GPU: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 1080Ti 11GB; MB: Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5; RAM: 16GB; HD: Samsung 960 Pro 512GB SSD, Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD; Display: ASUS 4K 28", LG HD 22"

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On 4/16/2018 at 7:22 PM, Wanthuyr Filho said:

I read a few times VSync doesn't work with windowed applications (which is the case of P3D v4, since it doesn't run true fullscreen). I was one who used to set the screen to 30 Hz and enabled VSync inside P3D and it worked nicely except for two things: the mouse pointer always felt sluggish and whenever the FPS fell below 30 the stutterers were massive.

Nowadays I set the refresh rate back to 60 Hz and set 30 FPS inside NVidia Inspector, which gives me a very smooth experience, even when the FPS falls bellow 30 and the mouse pointer is also very smooth to deal with. Inside P3D the FPS is unlimited, no signs of distracting blurring.

What do you set in p3d? Unlimited or 30 frames ? Or do you set 30 in both inspector and sim?

Thanks,

Tom


Tom Davis

 

I7 6700k 4.7 ghz, gtx 1080ti , 16gb 3400 ram, 32’’ 2k monitor, 1TB ssd, 500gb ssd, 250gb ssd, h115 water cooler

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6 minutes ago, nocaltom said:

What do you set in p3d? Unlimited or 30 frames ? Or do you set 30 in both inspector and sim?

Thanks,

Tom

Unlimited. But it may be 60 if you start seeing scenery blurries. In my previous rig I used to have, but not the current one (so unlimited).


Best regards,

 

Wanthuyr Filho

 

qpwqa8-6.png

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Thanks!!

12 minutes ago, Wanthuyr Filho said:

Unlimited. But it may be 60 if you start seeing scenery blurries. In my previous rig I used to have, but not the current one (so unlimited).

Thanks!!!


Tom Davis

 

I7 6700k 4.7 ghz, gtx 1080ti , 16gb 3400 ram, 32’’ 2k monitor, 1TB ssd, 500gb ssd, 250gb ssd, h115 water cooler

UAL440.png

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With P3D "Vertical Synchronisation" of the Monitor is controlled by Windows Desktop.

P3D is a desktop window, and when in full-screen (we use the Windows key combination command ALT+ENTER) is a maximised desktop window with the caption and border removed.

The VSync in P3D display settings causes P3D to obtain the monitor refresh frequency as a guide to output frames computed for the time of the scene to be displayed at the next frame. This does not control tearing.

VSync-On and Unlimited on the slider means the fps is not capped at the monitor refresh frequency. The resulting frames wobble around that frequency.

Adding the Triple Buffer does not alter the fps it only enables the next frame drawn to be more accurate according to what the scene will be when it is finally displayed.

Limiting: Using the Nvidia controls to limit fps at just below the intended frequency is better than just above as is recommended elsewhere. This is because the GPU is always throwing away a frame. When setting the limit correctly just below the monitor frequency or division of that frequency, each frame only ever waits a small time, and at 30fps 29fps saves 4% throughput as well. A common mistake is to set it at 31 and intend to sync at 30, use 29. In the NVidia settings it's 28.5, 29.5, 30.5 and so on for the purpose.

Setting the monitor behaviour to become a lower refresh type can result in blank screens, the settings are confusing and the timings must be correct - have another go.

 

 

 

Edited by SteveW

Steve Waite: Engineer at codelegend.com

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This story is still not entirely clear to me, let me explain where I have issues to understand:

1. I use a 144Hz Monitor with G-Sync. All those tipps and tricks I can read online are in regard to 60Hz Monitors. I tried to adapt with no luck (using 1/4 refresh rate instead of 1/2 etc.)

2. In the nVidia Profile Inspector, I get two different frame limiter options. One is not "precise", means all I can select are values like "~36.7FPS" and so on. The other one is precise, called "Framelimiter v2" and offers distinct values such as "36FPS". Which one should I use?

3. The stories about blurries. In earlier versions of P3D, I observed blurries when using "unlimited" in P3D and an external limiter (I used the unprecise ~36.7 limit). Currently, I use 36FPS inside P3D and no limiter in the nVidia Profile Inspector.

So, no, still not entirely clear what to do with my 144Hz setup...


Greetings, Chris

Intel i7-8700K@5.0GHz, 2x16GB 3200MHz CL14 RAM, Gigabyte AORUS 1080Ti, Windows 10 Home 64bit, Prepar3D 4.5

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16 minutes ago, AnkH said:

This story is still not entirely clear to me, let me explain where I have issues to understand:

1. I use a 144Hz Monitor with G-Sync. All those tipps and tricks I can read online are in regard to 60Hz Monitors. I tried to adapt with no luck (using 1/4 refresh rate instead of 1/2 etc.)

2. In the nVidia Profile Inspector, I get two different frame limiter options. One is not "precise", means all I can select are values like "~36.7FPS" and so on. The other one is precise, called "Framelimiter v2" and offers distinct values such as "36FPS". Which one should I use?

3. The stories about blurries. In earlier versions of P3D, I observed blurries when using "unlimited" in P3D and an external limiter (I used the unprecise ~36.7 limit). Currently, I use 36FPS inside P3D and no limiter in the nVidia Profile Inspector.

So, no, still not entirely clear what to do with my 144Hz setup...

1. 60Hz is just a number can be divided into 60/2=30, 20, 15,10 very nicely. 144 can be divided into 36 as 144/4, 29 as 144/5, and even as low as 144/6=24 should be just good enough for slow flying.

You are not referring to 1/2 vsync in NPI? That would not work - the Desktop controls vsync.

2. If you want to add-in a limiter use the framelimit in NPI. Your desired output fps should be just below that not just above.

3. Blurriness is due to the failure to load a complete texture in time for the display. This could be one of many things, your addons, your dlls, your simconnect addons, your monitor setup is probably not at fault.

 

Start with thinking what fps you desire for the intended simulation. Experiment to find what you want.

 

Say you want only 24fps. Lock at 24fps in Display settings. Leave your monitor at 144.

 

 

Edited by SteveW

Steve Waite: Engineer at codelegend.com

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