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John_Cillis

I had not heard about this accident

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Interesting video, and another example of ordinary pilots showing extraordinary decision making.  Reminds me of the United DC10 crash (Flight 232) into Sioux City Iowa.

John

 

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This accident I had heard of, after the Hudson ditching, another example of airmanship.  This Boeing definitely kept going!

John

 

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Shame about the DC-10, had a bad reputation from the start when really it was an exceptional aircraft for its time. Still flying today and looks great for its age


Matthew Kane

 

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I've always thought the DC-10 and his younger brother, the MD-11, were dangerous aircraft. I remember well those DC-10 latch door accidents, mainly the Turkish one that caused that so many loss of lives.

Thanks for posting.

Cheers, Ed


Ed Patino

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10 hours ago, edpatino said:

I've always thought the DC-10 and his younger brother, the MD-11, were dangerous aircraft. I remember well those DC-10 latch door accidents, mainly the Turkish one that caused that so many loss of lives.

Thanks for posting.

Cheers, Ed

There was also the sad Chicago crash, great loss of life, same thing--cargo door.  I had flown on the DC 10 before this crash from the same runway at ORD.  I remember that flight well, it was my first flight in almost ten years--I was just fourteen and flying alone for the first time in my life.  Later in that flight, over Colorado, we had to climb very high to clear some weather--the pilot remarked it was the highest a DC10 had ever flown although I do not recall the flight level.  Years later in a 767 I remember we cruised at Flight Level 410 from SFO to Dulles, and I could tell the difference between that and FL 350, it looked like we were looking down on earth from space, I even spied some lenticular clouds over the Nevada desert not far from Mono Lake.

The L1011, the DC10's cousin, had an outstanding safety record, and I flew that a few times on TWA and Delta.  Too bad it did not have more popularity, that, the 767, 747 and CRJ 700 are my favorite aircraft.

John

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20 minutes ago, Cactus521 said:

There was also the sad Chicago crash, great loss of life, same thing--cargo door.  I had flown on the DC 10 before this crash from the same runway at ORD.  I remember that flight well, it was my first flight in almost ten years--I was just fourteen and flying alone for the first time in my life.  Later in that flight, over Colorado, we had to climb very high to clear some weather--the pilot remarked it was the highest a DC10 had ever flown although I do not recall the flight level.  Years later in a 767 I remember we cruised at Flight Level 410 from SFO to Dulles, and I could tell the difference between that and FL 350, it looked like we were looking down on earth from space, I even spied some lenticular clouds over the Nevada desert not far from Mono Lake.

The L1011, the DC10's cousin, had an outstanding safety record, and I flew that a few times on TWA and Delta.  Too bad it did not have more popularity, that, the 767, 747 and CRJ 700 are my favorite aircraft.

John

Right!, and what about that DC-10 that lost his right engine during take-off. Don't remember if it was from Chicago too.

Flew it several times, from Miami to Paris and from Caracas to Spain in the former venezuelan airline Viasa. I was really scared every time I had to fly on a DC-10.

Cheers, Ed


Ed Patino

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11 hours ago, edpatino said:

've always thought the DC-10 and his younger brother, the MD-11, were dangerous aircraft.

They were great airplanes from my perspective as a pilot.  I don't know a pilot who flew on them that didn't speak highly of their time on them and would gladly go back, especially to the "11".  What I missed most about going from the "10" to the "11" was the F/E.  The F/E really makes a difference in high work load situations.  

Of course I'm old I liked the B707, but the DC-3, not so much.

Edited by Bluestar

I Earned My Spurs in Vietnam

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12 minutes ago, edpatino said:

Right!, and what about that DC-10 that lost his right engine during take-off. Don't remember if it was from Chicago too.

Flew it several times, from Miami to Paris and from Caracas to Spain in the former venezuelan airline Viasa. I was really scared every time I had to fly on a DC-10.

Cheers, Ed

My poor Mom was flying her first time alone from SFO to Chicago in a DC10, in a window seat, when the Captain gets on the horn and says "Welcome to our maiden voyage!".  She said she was a nervous wreck, a woman with some flying experience, watching every rivet in the wing.  It was the first time in her life she saw wing flex as she preferred aisle seats when flying with us children.  She had us in uproarious laughter describing her experience.  I flew the DC10 many times, on United and American, but never felt unduly unsafe even after the cargo door accidents which were corrected by the time of my last flights on it, to and from Europe in 1987. 

The only aircraft I ever felt unsafe on, aside from puddle jumpers, was the DC8-63 which had an unusually high climb angle and could reverse two of its engines in flight to slow down.  Mine was an old aircraft, a chartered TransInternatonal aircraft, full of us high school students and our chaperones.  But they served beer to us while we were over international waters, kind of nice for a fifteen year old at the time!  I seldom drink on aircraft due to dehydration issues plus I do not like the feeling of alcohol as I have grown older.  I might accept a glass of champagne but that would be my one and only drink onboard. 

The least safe GA aircraft I have ever flown on was my light sport trainer, the Allegro 2000, which had wicked stall characteristics and a cockpit with not enough height, so I'd bank my head in chop in it.  I had also flown the Zenair XL not knowing it had a wing collapse issue that had to be fixed early in its life.  I found flying trikes incredibly safe, fewer points of failure since no hydraulics were needed, just mild arm movements to control pitch and roll.  You can land a trike on a Napkin practically, and my CFI used to have me practice landings in a 500 foot clearing in the desert not far from Brenda, Arizona.  We could be off the ground in less than one hundred meters, even with a crosswind component.

John

 

Edited by Cactus521

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I flew the DC10-30 and with a good maintenance it's a very reliable workhorse. I cross the Alantic hundreds of times between Paris and the french West Indies without any problem even a small one. The only,well known, problem with the DC10, was the thrust reverser of engine 2 which add the bad habit to stay stucked open after landing, that why we avoid using it except when we landed at our home base or when  the runway was contaminated. In my airline we flew the DC10-30(4) and 30ER(1) for almost 10 years without any major troubles like engine shutdown, hydraulic failure, flaps, autopilots or auto throttles(2 on this bird when the 747-200 add only one)INS and so on...That was and is a hell of a plane . A shame there is no good rendition of this awesome, and very dear for me and I'm sure for all crews who flew her, for FSX or P3D. A mention to the one at HJG. That's why I love the PMDG MD11, after all this a DC10 without me the flight engineer..

Cheers

Pat 

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Patrick Mussotte

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1 hour ago, edpatino said:

Right!, and what about that DC-10 that lost his right engine during take-off. Don't remember if it was from Chicago too.

Flew it several times, from Miami to Paris and from Caracas to Spain in the former venezuelan airline Viasa. I was really scared every time I had to fly on a DC-10.

The DC-10 is a very reliable and safe aircraft, as a few pointed out already.

The engine loss on the DC-10 that crashed (AA191) was caused by poor and faulty maintenance by American Airlines staff.

This had nothing to do with the aircraft design.

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58 minutes ago, J35OE said:

The DC-10 is a very reliable and safe aircraft, as a few pointed out already.

The engine loss on the DC-10 that crashed (AA191) was caused by poor and faulty maintenance by American Airlines staff.

This had nothing to do with the aircraft design.

I think among the two safest aircraft I have known were the 757 and 767, in addition to the L1011.  The DC10 that said has been a workhorse and has served as a cargo hauler in its second life.  I loved flying it to and from Europe in 1987, flew from SFO to Frankfurt, changing DC10's in Dallas.  I loved the wing view in it as well, the pylons under the wing were different from other aircraft I have flown on.  Never had a chance to fly on an MD11.

I am holding out for a chance to fly on the 787 some day and the ERJ 170 or 190, a similar looking aircraft.  I love the nose of both aircraft, so sleek and modern.  And the engines of the 787 are so unique.  Do not know if I will ever get the chance to fly on the A350.  Other widebody I flew on was a Pan Am A310 from Caracas to JFK in 1990 as well as frequent flights on the 747, most recently my BA flight, non stop to and from Phoenix to Heathrow last year.  My aircraft later had an engine failure however inbound to Phoenix about a month later.  I thought during my flight home something did not feel quite right and I was very queasy the entire flight but felt better as soon as we hit the turf at Sky Harbor.  I made videos of our takeoff from Heathrow and landing at Sky Harbor on that aircraft.  Flew in Premium economy which had only window and aisle seats and a great vantage point ahead of the wing.

Flew the 747 also from SFO to Tokyo and another from Tokyo to Guam in 1992.  The combined flights were my longest flights in terms of distance, about 7000 statue miles, but Northwest upgraded me to business class for the Toyko-Guam-Tokyo legs, which military staff onboard told me Northwest did on the fairly empty flight for those inbound from the continental US.  It helped my energy level quite a bit since I was in Guam to evaluate a job I had been offered and the island.  I was flown there for free after a grueling interview with the HR Manager of bio firm Genentech, a courtesy they did for the resort I was invited to manage in Guam.  Including Tokyo, I have taken nine transoceanic flights since 1977, most in a 747 but four in a 767, two in a DC10, two in a DC8-63.  Add to that oceanic hops in an A310 and a 767 between Phoenix and Honolulu with my wife and daughter.

John

 

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7 hours ago, J35OE said:

The DC-10 is a very reliable and safe aircraft, as a few pointed out already.

The engine loss on the DC-10 that crashed (AA191) was caused by poor and faulty maintenance by American Airlines staff.

This had nothing to do with the aircraft design.

A great aircraft but a little underbraked by all accounts (at least until the Mk2 antiskid system was developed). All of the above mentioned incidents were caused by bad maintenance/ground handling errors.

The Chicago crash criticised the DC10 design in having all the hydraulic lines for the slats running along the same route in the wing. With the benefit of hindsight if the crew had maintained the airspeed at point of engine failure/separation, instead of reducing back to V2 (their standard operating procedure) then the aircraft would supposedly have still been flyable.


Cheers

Steve Hall

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