newtie

Managing throttle?

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Hi

I was reading somewhere here that a guy had an issue with throttle creep, if that's the correct description.

Anyway, I think I understand that post now. It's very difficult to get the throttle so maintain a certain speed without it creeping. Is there a way to achieve a set speed (370 KIAS say) and lock it there?

Thanks,

Mark

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That was me lol...Very frustrating problem. In the real airplane you set cruise power and the airplane will settle in on a speed...from there you can make fine adjustments if need be...there is no auto throttle...this ive mentioned it to flysimware. But with this plane She wants to wander all over the place. I went from 74.2 N1 and .80 mach to 75.6N1 and blowing through VNE at around .94 withing 20 minutes. Not sure theres much they can do evidently but its an issue that borders making this $50 beauty unflyable for me. Its an absolutely awsome airplane by flysimware but this has kept mine on the ground lately until someone figures it out..its a real pain on a long flight..seems more pronounced at cruise altitude (390 or so). Im sure theres something they could tweak to make it less sensative but who knows 

Edited by chevelle505

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I keep a real close eye on the N1 gauge..takes a bit to get it settled but it does eventually.

cheers,

Mark

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I believe this creep is related to the OAT. I find that after settling in on an airspeed at altitude the output of the engines will change as the OAT changes. So for instance, I often fly from NE to FL or the Carib. As we work our way down the coast the OAT changes and the throttles need adjustment. I learned this with the Lear. Aircraft with A/T account for this. Certainly the engine performance is affected by temperature but it will take someone with experience, such as Flightsimware, to weigh in on the modeling.

Edited by Wink207

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I totally agree with it being related to OAT..i fly with active sky so its constantly changing temp, winds ect. However..it shouldnt be that huge of a difference..the temp isnt changing that rapidly within 10 to 20 minutes..we're talking 2 to 3% N1 changes which equates to blowing through a set mach within minutes...just seems a little excessive to me to have to literally spend the entire flight (every 10 minutes) adjusting throttles. Ive never flown a real falcon but i have flown a real CJ and thats not exactly how it works...micro adjustment here and there..sure..but your not continuously chasing power over the course of a 4 hour flight

If it cant be fixed (maybe a limitation in the sim) id almost rather have a "backdoor" way of controlling it..maybe a hot key auto throttle or something. Not very realisting but then neither is this creeping issue

 

Btw one thing ive noticed that makes me think its not OAT is if i adjust by advancing throttle..the creep slowly keeps advancing..if its a power reduction however then i will slowly bleed off N1. 

Edited by chevelle505

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I also use ASN. My feeling, again having done this with the Lear, is that this behavior has more to do with ASN than with the FDE for the aircraft. Of course someone may choose to comment on the FDE and how, as you suggest, it is affected by the OAT. I try to pick a reasonable N1/EPR anticipating temp increases/decreases, so I can step away from the sim to do whatever, then return for another adjustment. One flight awhile back with the Lear there was such a drastic change in engine parameters that we were very close to stall.

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2 hours ago, chevelle505 said:

That was me lol...Very frustrating problem. In the real airplane you set cruise power and the airplane will settle in on a speed...from there you can make fine adjustments if need be...there is no auto throttle...this ive mentioned it to flysimware. But with this plane She wants to wander all over the place. I went from 74.2 N1 and .80 mach to 75.6N1 and blowing through VNE at around .94 withing 20 minutes. Not sure theres much they can do evidently but its an issue that borders making this $50 beauty unflyable for me. Its an absolutely awsome airplane by flysimware but this has kept mine on the ground lately until someone figures it out..its a real pain on a long flight..seems more pronounced at cruise altitude (390 or so). Im sure theres something they could tweak to make it less sensative but who knows 

I’ve done several flights ranging from FL350 to FL410, and have noted little tendency for the N1 to creep once set, or for speed to deteriorate or increase unreasonably. I have seen some minor changes in N1 with OAT - but nothing drastic.

I wonder if you may have some noise or instability in your throttle axis that may be contributing to the change over time?

Do you have a PMDG (or similar) add on aircraft with autothrottles?This would be one way to check. If you do, take it up and establish a steady cruise in level flight at an appropriate Mach speed... then turn off the auto throttles and let aircraft continue to cruise for several minutes to see if there is any tendency for N1 and airspeed to change.

Just a thought...

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Depending on what throttle hardware you have it will have different ratios of the minimal amount you can move it. For example have a Extreme 3D Pro i use for testing rather than my saitek mos of the time. And the least amount i can move the N1 is 1.0 %. but the F2 and F3 can move the N1 0.2%. This helps keeps the speed steady. But i know this because i use a test panel that shows the speeds in true IAS and mach. So another issues this this type of gauge the pilot reads is not very detailed in increments. So i would assume in the real world the throttle movement can adjust 0.1. Also the air file does not use a high change for temps.

The best tip is to take your mouse and move the #2 throttle in the VC by 1%, this changes the N1 by 0.1%.

This tip should do the trick. Should i add the speed with decimals 000.1 in the popup panel?

Edited by Flysimware

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Beta 3.4 will include a FDE. 

===================================

Pattern:

Flaps S+20, 68% - 72% N1 140 knots

FINAL:

Flaps S+48, gear down, 72% N1

====================================

More N1 at high altitude. More N1 for takeoffs than the previous versions!

Edited by Flysimware
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Thats interesting! I will try that for sure. However, i can find a stable N1 to hold a speed..the issue is that the N1 keeps slowly climbing on its own..in other words..no matter what N1 I set..it wont stay there..and not by .1 or .2..it has varried as much a 3.5% N1 if i dont constantly keep adjusting power up and down.

 

Also, did you mean it will be capable of more N1 at altitude and takeoff? Because honestly..she doesnt need it...shes got more than enough power to blow through Vne lol. Either way..as long as it stays true to the real thing..anything to make it better would be great!

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1 hour ago, chevelle505 said:

Thats interesting! I will try that for sure. However, i can find a stable N1 to hold a speed..the issue is that the N1 keeps slowly climbing on its own..in other words..no matter what N1 I set..it wont stay there..and not by .1 or .2..it has varried as much a 3.5% N1 if i dont constantly keep adjusting power up and down.

 

Also, did you mean it will be capable of more N1 at altitude and takeoff? Because honestly..she doesnt need it...shes got more than enough power to blow through Vne lol. Either way..as long as it stays true to the real thing..anything to make it better would be great!

No it will have less power. It already has too much.

I never see the N1 change as long as i don't pitch the aircraft or touch my joystick. Sounds like a hardware issue. Unplug your throttle and use the keyboard as a test.

Edited by Flysimware

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20 minutes ago, cleptric said:

Sorry, but what does FDE means?

Hi...

Hmm - guessing here...

Flight Dynamics Envelop ?

Its the modeling that controls how the aircraft flies - all the information the sim uses to determine this is contained in two files — the aircraft.cfg and the xxx.air - every aircraft has these two files in there directory....

Regards,

Scott

 

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5 minutes ago, FDEdev said:

FlightDynamicsEngine

Hah - thanks - mine was just a guess...

😀

Regards,

Scott

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Hi Folks,

As for the throttle creep - we had this in the Lear a bit as well - one thing that seemed to help me - was moving all the respective controls to FSUIPC instead of using the sim... I have no real evidence to support this - lol - could be the placebo effect - but this is what I use now... I don’t have enough time with the Falcon to form an opinion yet...

Regards,

Scott

Edited by scottb613

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Just testing it at the moment , seems a bit better with the keyboard F2 and F3 and in FSUIPC there is a button control for Throttle incr small and Throttle dec small which helps, also I have set the curve for joy stick axis  to -6, will see how that works.

 

bob

 

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4 hours ago, chevelle505 said:

Thats interesting! I will try that for sure. However, i can find a stable N1 to hold a speed..the issue is that the N1 keeps slowly climbing on its own..in other words..no matter what N1 I set..it wont stay there..and not by .1 or .2..it has varried as much a 3.5% N1 if i dont constantly keep adjusting power up and down.

 

Also, did you mean it will be capable of more N1 at altitude and takeoff? Because honestly..she doesnt need it...shes got more than enough power to blow through Vne lol. Either way..as long as it stays true to the real thing..anything to make it better would be great!

A change of 3.5 percent N1 definitely sounds like it may be hardware related in your sim setup. I have the CH throttle quadrant, and was aware for some time that the axes were becoming a bit noisy. This was most obvious when looking at the levers in the VC, where I could see some jitter in the position of the power levers.

This wasn’t a problem when flying auto throttle equipped add-ons, but became an issue when I started flying the Aerosoft CRJ a lot - which also requires power to be controlled manually in cruise. I was experiencing a similar problem with N1 creep. I finally disassembled the quadrant, and sprayed contact cleaner in the potentiometers, which helped quite a bit.

Still, I have not been able to eliminate the axis noise completely. I am saving up to purchase the new Virtual Fly TQ6 Plus six-lever quadrant which uses Hall effect sensors which should be rock solid at all times.

N1 in the real aircraft and in the sim is sensitive to OAT. My initial test flights in the Falcon 50 were done using the default clear weather theme, where OAT never varies over time at any given altitude. Recently I have started using Active Sky weather on my flights, where  OAT can change, and this has required paying closer attention to airspeed and power lever settings.

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