Recommended Posts

I've completed my first pass of setting up my new build.  I thought I'd pass along my experiences so far.

CPU:   i9-9900k
Mobo:  Asus Maximus XI Code
SDRAM: G.Skill TridentZ DDR4 4400 18-19-19-39 16 GB Kit
PSU:   Seasonic Prime Ultra 850 80+ Titanium
SSD:   Samsung 970 EVO M.2 1TB PCIe (2)
GPU:   EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC Black 11GB
Screen:Samsung UN40KU6290 4K @ 30Hz
AIO:   EVGA CLC 280

Case: Lian-Li OC11 Dynamic

tl;dr:  I'm running all cores at 5.0GHZ, HT off.  Still in early testing of P3D v4.3 

I took the GPU and AIO from my old build.  I probably would have bought a 2080 Ti if EVGA had any in stock when I was purchasing the parts.  Now I'm glad I don't have it yet.  By keeping the 1080 Ti, it gives me a better comparison with my 4-core 3570k @ 4.5 GHz.

I also took the AIO from my old PC.  I'm going to replace it with an Asus Ryujin 360, which includes a fan to provide air flow over the VRMs.  Like most of the components I wanted it wasn't available when I ordered my other parts, but I ordered one from Amazon (sold & shipped by) that should arrive on Monday.

The first issue that came up in the new build was that I couldn't boot with the TridentZ at 4400 MHz in XMP Modes I or II.  Asus includes the TridentZ 4400 in their QVL, although with the 32GB kit.  I was able to get it to 4000 MHz  17-17-17-37 at 1.35V.  I knew this was a possibility when I bought it, so I wasn't surprised.  I haven't tried moving the sticks from A2-B2 to A1-B1.  Not my highest priority right now and I don't know that it would make much difference anyway.  I might try it with a future BIOS update.

Speaking of which, I updated the BIOS to 0602.

My first tests were at stock settings (including the RAM at 2133 since XMP wouldn't boot).  When running Prime95 I quickly learned about PL1, PL2, and tau after it would run at 4.7 on all cores for about 100 seconds, at which point it would throttle down gradually to about 4.1 on all cores.  This would bring the power back to TDP, which is 95W for the i9-9900k.  Power Limit 1 defaults to TDP.  PL2 = PL1 * 1.25, or 118.75W.  

These can be configured in BIOS under the Extreme Tweaker/Internal CPU Power Management menu:
PL1 = Long Duration Package Power Limit (max = 4095)
tau = Package Power Time Window (max = 127)
PL2 = Short Duration Package Power Limit (max = 4095)

Following the videos of Der8auer and Steve Burke for OC'ing the 9900k, I set those values to max.

See Steve Burke's explanation of how different mobo manufacturers do their own thing with power settings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBrumDWpl-c&t=696s.  According to Gamers Nexus, Asus is the only board maker that follows Intel guidance for power levels and duration at stock settings (but not with MCE on).

I also tried out the Asus AI Overclocking to see what it would do but quickly abandoned it when it set the RAM voltage to 1.6 to achieve 3600 MHz.

I started off my manual overclocking with HT enabled.  Cinebench R15 seemed to be a quick way to see if my settings were way off, because it would hang or crash almost immediately and a full CPU run took less than 30 seconds.  I had to abandon Prime95 after I disabled the power limits because the CPU would hit thermal limits almost immediately with small FFT values.  I would have thermal throttling on 2 or 3 cores, plus the CPU package.  Temps would hit 101 on the CPU package and upper 90's on the cores.  I started running the Asus RealBench 2.43 for 15 minutes for stress testing.  At first, RealBench would cause the 9900k to thermal throttling 2 or 3 cores after 5 minutes or so.  That turned out to be because I didn't have the radiator fans ramping up properly.  I tested with the AIO pump at minimum speed (~1950) and maximum (which varies on mine from 2880-2940 RPM), which only varied 1-2C on any core.  With the fans set properly RealBench could run 15 minutes with no thermal throttling, maxing at 87C.  However, Prime95 still hit the thermal limits.  I installed 3DMARK and ran Time Spy aifter seeing Rob's mention of it.  It ran to completion and scored 10,077 with Graphics 9,802 (single 1080 Ti) and CPU 11,983 (HT on @ 5.0 GHz).

The Maximus mobo has an AIO pump header, which I used.  The header can be used with 4-pin (PWM) or 3-pin (DC) connectors.  The EVGA CLC 280 has a 3-pin connector.  I could configure the pump in BIOS to run at 3 different speeds, depending on the reading of the parameter being monitoring (which defaults to CPU).  Since I could only control the fans from the EVGA Flow Control app, I disabled BIOS monitoring of the AIO and set the pump speed and radiator fans in the EVGA app.

I currently have all cores running at 5.0GHz.  I won't try pushing it higher until I get the Ryujin AIO on Monday and see what my temps are.  

My FS hardware:

  • MFG Crosswind rudder pedals
  • PFC Cirrus desktop yoke, Saab model
  • JetMax 737 TQ
  • TrackIR - Disabled to get more consistent results between runs

I use 0.70 zoom with wide angle enabled.  All P3D settings below.

I have two standard test flights that I use, both in the PMDG 737 NGX.  The first one is a circuit at KLAX from RW25R to RW25L that takes about 20 minutes. Here's the route:

25R
DOCKR
WEILR
SHAEF
PEVEE
SLI
GAATE
HUNDA
ILS25L

I have terrain settings at maximum (except for water, which is set to High. With Ultra my RTSS stats wouldn't appear on the screen).  My first run was with default scenery and the fps stayed at 30fps for the duration with smooth animation.  Adding Orbx Global didn't affect it, but OpenLC NA introduced a multi-second freeze when almost over Terminal Island at Long Beach.  There were also micro-stutters occassionally, especially when turning.  Adding Orbx SoCal increased the stuttering.  I installed FSDT KLAX, which didn't affect it much except for one extra pause on long final.  I also ran FSDT KLAX without Orbx OpenLC and SoCal.  Some stutters that I used to think were from FSDT turned out to be from the Orbx sceneries.  The only real effect on maintaining 30 ftps came when I enabled AI traffic; MT6 set at 25% caused my frame rate to drop to about 25 while on the ground at KLAX and on final.  I've barely scratched the surface on P3D testing.  I did one quick check at FlightBeam KMSP at night with dynamic lighting.  There was no AI traffic.  It stayed at 30fps, even with external views.  But ImagineSim ZSPD with AI traffic at night killed my frames down to 12.  I didn't try any other settings to try to pinpoint it.  Still lots to do.  Overall, I will be able to run with much higher settings than previously.  I just don't know exactly what that will be yet.

LsA1Nvf.jpg

1rVQ982.jpg

odXDzta.jpg

iAgys29.png

XL4eyH7.jpg

VFlC0Hm.jpg

d98qCFM.jpg

wQfdyLB.jpg

xHqHZQ0.jpg

bKK2uDx.jpg

Bc41Poa.jpg

Edited by LRW
Photo update
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Thanks for the excellent write up.  It’s a shame even with a 9900k one will still experience the scenery loading pauses.  I hope they address this problem soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you don't mind me asking, what sort of CPU temps are you getting?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BrettT said:

If you don't mind me asking, what sort of CPU temps are you getting?

Good question.  I captured stats for most of my KLAX circuits. Here are a couple of examples.

Orbx Global Only

               Core #0           Core #1          Core #2         Core #3           Core #4          Core #5           Core #6           Core #7

Min                   42                   41                   40                   41                   37                   38                   39                   37

Avg                   65                   53                   62                   61                   61                   60                   59                   57

Max                   76                   73                   84                   82                   86                   82                   83                   81

 

Orbx OpenLC & SoCal

               Core #0           Core #1          Core #2          Core #3          Core #4          Core #5           Core #6          Core #7

Min                   34                   36                   35                   34                   35                   33                   36                   34

Avg                   61                   50                   57                   55                   55                   54                   54                   52

Max                   70                   69                   78                   77                   79                   76                   76                   77

 

I'll update it after I install the Ryujin 360 AIO.

Edited by LRW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for taking the time to post the great summary of your build and P3D performance experience Larry. My current system is very similar to your old one. When you described the P3D performance on your new system I thought, "oh oh, this is not good, this is what I get on my current system." Well that was until I saw your settings which are mostly maxed out. My settings are mostly medium to low.  I know your have a lot to test and adjust right now but I would appreciate it if when you have the time you would let us know how much you need to relax your settings to eliminate the stutters and get smooth flight.

Thanks again,

Ted

 

Edited by Ted Striker
grammer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

However, Prime95 still hit the thermal limits.

 

 

Prime is vicious. Which version of Prime? Try the version without AVX. I would recommend to set an AVX offset as well. Auto wont work. I suggest set to 3. It will hit high temps running a stress test that runs AVX with no off set in place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Awesome looking case Larry... but  how does the airflow works on that Lin Li model? Whats the rear of the case like? Is it positive pressure, in-taking air into the CPU/GPU side?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

 

Prime is vicious. Which version of Prime? Try the version without AVX. I would recommend to set an AVX offset as well. Auto wont work. I suggest set to 3. It will hit high temps running a stress test that runs AVX with no off set in place.

Manually setting AVX offset to 3 made all the difference.  That ran the cores at 4.7.  I let the test run for 30 minutes with small FFTs and the max core temps ranged from 77 to 84 with CPU Package 84.  The Prime95 version is 29.4 build 8.  I'll see what my temps do when I get the Ryujin 360 next week.  Big thanks for that advice!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, LRW said:

Manually setting AVX offset to 3 made all the difference.  That ran the cores at 4.7.  I let the test run for 30 minutes with small FFTs and the max core temps ranged from 77 to 84 with CPU Package 84.  The Prime95 version is 29.4 build 8.  I'll see what my temps do when I get the Ryujin 360 next week.  Big thanks for that advice!!

 

It's a pleasure and an honour. 😁

That asus AIO looks interesting. One of the reasons I'm a fan of the D15 is because the centrally mounted fan, 150mm overlaps the heat-sink and blasts lots of air across the VRM's. Something that's lacking with AIO's. So great that asus have addressed this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, martin-w said:

Awesome looking case Larry... but  how does the airflow works on that Lin Li model? Whats the rear of the case like? Is it positive pressure, in-taking air into the CPU/GPU side?

The back has a small grill that's about 7x14cm.  It has  the slightest outflow, even under load when the radiator fans are high.  The bottom of the case can take 3 x 120mm fans, so that's a large open grill at the moment.  There's definitely air coming out of the bottom under a load when the intake fans are at high speed, ~1500 rpm.  I can add 3 more fans to the bottom if I need them for better GPU cooling, but I'll have to add a Corsair Commander to power and control all 6 fans and to provide an extra USB header for the LED controller of the additional fans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doubt you'll need anymore fans to be honest. Looks an awesome machine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Doubt you'll need anymore fans to be honest. Looks an awesome machine.

It's an adventure of exploration.  I'm having a lot of fun with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, martin-w said:

Prime is vicious. Which version of Prime? Try the version without AVX. I would recommend to set an AVX offset as well. Auto wont work. I suggest set to 3. It will hit high temps running a stress test that runs AVX with no off set in place.

You can disable AVX in current versions of Prime95 by running it briefly one time, which creates the config files, then edit local.txt, adding these three lines:

CpuSupportsAVX=0
CpuSupportsAVX2=0
CpuSupportsAVX512F=0

Nice build.

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, LRW said:

Manually setting AVX offset to 3 made all the difference.  That ran the cores at 4.7.  I let the test run for 30 minutes with small FFTs and the max core temps ranged from 77 to 84 with CPU Package 84.  The Prime95 version is 29.4 build 8.  I'll see what my temps do when I get the Ryujin 360 next week.  Big thanks for that advice!!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I replaced my 5ghz OC 8700k with a 5ghz OC 9900k over the weekend and didn't see much improvement in any sims. Maybe 1-2 fps. Mostly switched due to way better multi-thread performance that I needed. I'm still getting about 30fps sitting at Jeffersonville with all orbx related products enabled and p3d sliders about 3/4 on average at 5760x1080. I'd say that those with at least a well overclocked 6700k or greater will be disappointed if they are expecting any improvement in this old sim any time soon with the current gen hardware.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, I wouldn't expect a noticeable difference between 8700K and 9900K. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Going from a 6-year old 3570k to the 9900k has been a definite improvement for me.  Although I've gone down a rabbit hole the past few days trying to determine if there's a setting that would avoid the stutters when flying over Terminal Island in Long Beach with Orbx SoCal.  I ended up turning of all autogen, reflections, and shadows to no avail.  There's something about that scenery at that location that hammers the CPU.  With HT off, 6 or 7 cores would hit 100%.  With HT on, 14 threads would hit 100%.  Although I can't run with HT on at 5.0 when AVX kicks in because of temperature spikes.  New AIO supposed to be delivered tomorrow...speak of the devil, the USPS just delivered it to my door.  Welp, time to open up the case again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Big disappointment with the Asus Ryujin 360 AIO.  I don't see that it cools any better than the EVGA CLC 280 and, even worse, it doesn't even have the basic features of the EVGA cooler, like showing the coolant temp and allowing setting the radiator fans based on it.  And as for instructions on how to use the software: "Please visit the product support page at http://www.asus.com to download and install the control software."  The download page for the Ryujin has AI Suite III, LiveDash, and firmware updates, but no additional documentation.  The LiveDash is easy enough to use.  It lets you select the following:

  • Parameters you want to display on the OLED (although it doesn't remember previous choices - everything is unchecked when you open it)
  • What image or animation to display, either predefined or custom
  • A custom string to display with the ROG logo during boot
  • Lighting control for the LED stripe, if you don't have an Asus mobo with Aura

The first choice is the only one I used.  Pump and fan control is done from AI Suite, which seems like it could be an issue if you bought this to use in a non-Asus mobo.  Unfortunately for me AI Suite didn't see the radiator or VRM fans leaving me not knowing how I was supposed to control them, as there is no documentation or FAQ.  I found out from a new review of the Ryujin AIOs by Tiny Tom Logan on OC3D's youtube channel.  I found that my system doesn't see the USB connection on every boot, especially cold boot.  Tom pointed out a non-trivial issue.  Namely that the pump and fans all operate based on the CPU temp, but not the actual temp reported by the CPU; rather, it's from a mobo probe that has a definite lag and under reports the CPU temp by 5-10C.  Although I found that it also spikes intermittently by 10-15C, which caused all the fans to suddenly run high for a couple of seconds before slowing down again.  I adjusted the fan curves to eliminate those annoying run-ups.  The best thing about the Ryujin 360 is the set of Noctua fans.  I've never used them before and I really like them.  The little VRM fan on the block is definitely the loudest thing in my system when it spools up.  I don't know the speeds of any of the Ryujin fans because they don't appear in the fan list that shows the current speeds.  The fans only show up in the profile graph that lets you customize the speed by percentage.

I'll run some direct comparison tests in the morning with the Ryujin and the EVGA CLC with both HT on and off to get some hard numbers, but I'm leaning toward returning the Ryujin to Amazon.  I think I can put the $279.99 ($301.06 w/tax) to better use.  Maybe it's time I started looking at a custom loop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, LRW said:

Big disappointment with the Asus Ryujin 360 AIO.  I don't see that it cools any better than the EVGA CLC 280 and, even worse, it doesn't even have the basic features of the EVGA cooler, like showing the coolant temp and allowing setting the radiator fans based on it.  And as for instructions on how to use the software: "Please visit the product support page at http://www.asus.com to download and install the control software."  The download page for the Ryujin has AI Suite III, LiveDash, and firmware updates, but no additional documentation.  The LiveDash is easy enough to use.  It lets you select the following:

  • Parameters you want to display on the OLED (although it doesn't remember previous choices - everything is unchecked when you open it)
  • What image or animation to display, either predefined or custom
  • A custom string to display with the ROG logo during boot
  • Lighting control for the LED stripe, if you don't have an Asus mobo with Aura

The first choice is the only one I used.  Pump and fan control is done from AI Suite, which seems like it could be an issue if you bought this to use in a non-Asus mobo.  Unfortunately for me AI Suite didn't see the radiator or VRM fans leaving me not knowing how I was supposed to control them, as there is no documentation or FAQ.  I found out from a new review of the Ryujin AIOs by Tiny Tom Logan on OC3D's youtube channel.  I found that my system doesn't see the USB connection on every boot, especially cold boot.  Tom pointed out a non-trivial issue.  Namely that the pump and fans all operate based on the CPU temp, but not the actual temp reported by the CPU; rather, it's from a mobo probe that has a definite lag and under reports the CPU temp by 5-10C.  Although I found that it also spikes intermittently by 10-15C, which caused all the fans to suddenly run high for a couple of seconds before slowing down again.  I adjusted the fan curves to eliminate those annoying run-ups.  The best thing about the Ryujin 360 is the set of Noctua fans.  I've never used them before and I really like them.  The little VRM fan on the block is definitely the loudest thing in my system when it spools up.  I don't know the speeds of any of the Ryujin fans because they don't appear in the fan list that shows the current speeds.  The fans only show up in the profile graph that lets you customize the speed by percentage.

I'll run some direct comparison tests in the morning with the Ryujin and the EVGA CLC with both HT on and off to get some hard numbers, but I'm leaning toward returning the Ryujin to Amazon.  I think I can put the $279.99 ($301.06 w/tax) to better use.  Maybe it's time I started looking at a custom loop.

 

 

Issues pretty much outlined in the video I posted. the fan on the cold plate is very noisy, most turn it off. AiSuite temp is monitored from a sensor behind the socket, so not Core Temp, thus temps in AiSuite are about ten degrees cooler than Core Temp. This is a know issue with Fan Expert, has been for years.

 

Clean it up, pack it up, and send it back! 

 

Edit: apologies, I now see you have mentioned the above in your previous reply. 

Edited by martin-w

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bummer. At twice the price of other 360 AIOs, Asus should have delivered something really special here. Those guys are slipping a lot lately with their products. Wonder if they have had some c-suite changes recently?

Edited by J0nx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, J0nx said:

Bummer. At twice the price of other 360 AIOs, Asus should have delivered something really special here. Those guys are slipping a lot lately with their products. Wonder if they have had some c-suite changes recently?

Ya.  It appears that they put all of their effort into the bells and whistles of the OLED display and the actual functionality was a poorly implemented afterthought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, martin-w said:

Clean it up, pack it up, and send it back! 

Created the return on Amazon.  It's packed and ready for UPS to pick up tomorrow.

I ran comparisons between the Ryujin and the EVGA in Cinebench (which takes 20 seconds to run) and RealBench (15 minutes) .  The Ryujin did better than the EVGA with HT off, but the EVGA did as well as, or better than, the Ryujin with HT on.  The values are the average peak temps for the 8 cores.

  Cinebench R15
                 HT Off @ 5.0           HT On @ 5.0
  Ryujin EVGA Diff Ryujin EVGA Diff
  66 °C 73 °C 7 °C 91 °C 81 °C -10 °C

 

   

RealBench 2.43 (15 min - 4GB)
           HT Off @ 5.0           HT On @ 5.0          HT On @ 4.9
Ryujin EVGA Diff Ryujin EVGA Diff Ryujin EVGA Diff
76 °C 88 °C 12 °C 94 °C 94 °C 0 °C 93 °C 94 °C 1 °C

HT on @ 5.0 resulted in a BSOD for both coolers about half way through.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you very much for the detailed report. I just have ordered the system on i9-9900k, My choice of MOBO is ASUS Maximus VI + H115i Cooling + Crucial DDR4-2666 32GB. I will be using your guide for my own OC.

Again, appreciate the effort and sharing.

 

Best Regards

Dmitriy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A question, hopefully not much out of place: why is everyone still hung onto Asus, since they did that "thing" with the VRM (extended 8 phase, which isn't that, but rather 4+2). Is this old news?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, SimonC said:

A question, hopefully not much out of place: why is everyone still hung onto Asus, since they did that "thing" with the VRM (extended 8 phase, which isn't that, but rather 4+2). Is this old news?

 

It's 4 phase yes, plenty posted about it in the forum.  I think most Asus enthusiasts, me included, don't regard it as a huge issue. Not something that would have a huge impact on the majority of us. True that the VRM runs 10 degrees or so warmer, but no big deal in the grand scheme of things. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now