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I'm looking to buy a 4k monitor that supports 30Hz (or any monitor better than my current one that supports 30Hz). Browsing similar topics here gives very good suggestions but almost all of them are for really good 4k monitors that cost a lot of money. I'm looking for something on a budget (450$ max). Right now I have 1920x1080 24" monitor so anything better than that would be ok. I don't want it to be much bigger. Any suggestions? 

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Side question.. under system specifications for monitors I often see "vertical frequency" and "horizontal frequency" for Hz. Which one defines that the monitor is 30hz? For example from one of them:

Vertical frequency: 50 ~ 76Hz
Horizontal frequency: 30 ~ 83kHz

Is this monitor capable of 30Hz that can be beneficial in flightsim? Should both frequencies be capable of 30Hz? What's the deal?

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On my side, I bought the Asus PB287Q last year, I am pretty happy with it. It is 4K and it can do 30Hz.

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6 minutes ago, Vali said:

On my side, I bought the Asus PB287Q last year, I am pretty happy with it. It is 4K and it can do 30Hz.

Exactly what I'm looking for! Thanks!

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At 27-28" why not just go for 1440p? You're not going to see much benefit from 2160p/4K until you go over 30" screen size.

I have an AOC Q2778VQE panel which gets good reviews for its brightness, motion and sRGB colour output (although input lag is criticised) and and I'm very happy with it, but sadly this doesn't support 30 Hz.

Edited by ckyliu

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16 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

At 27-28" why not just go for 1440p? You're not going to see much benefit from 2160p/4K until you go over 30" screen size.

I have an AOC Q2778VQE panel which gets good reviews for its brightness, motion and sRGB colour output (although input lag is criticised) and and I'm very happy with it, but sadly this doesn't support 30 Hz.

Agreed.

i have a 32 inch at 1440p and it looks awesome. To go 4K I think a larger screen again would be needed to make it worthwhile.

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17 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

At 27-28" why not just go for 1440p? You're not going to see much benefit from 2160p/4K until you go over 30" screen size.

I have an AOC Q2778VQE panel which gets good reviews for its brightness, motion and sRGB colour output (although input lag is criticised) and and I'm very happy with it, but sadly this doesn't support 30 Hz.

That's a good point, I didn't consider that. I have a very hard time finding non-4K monitor that supports 30Hz and everybody that uses 30Hz here on AVSIM seems to have 4K so I just assumed those two things go together :) I'd be good with 1440p monitor that support 30Hz. Any suggestions? 

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Your hardware will thank you for it, 4K flight simming incredibly demanding on a system! 30 Hz is where you are going to struggle though as there is not much consumer demand, most only support 60 Hz+. Viewsonic XG2760 is the only one I can find at 27-28". Some of these could be worth investigating though:

baqImf.jpg

Edited by ckyliu

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4k on a budget?  LOL

No such thing , if we use your existing 1080p settings as a baseline-

Let's assume one is using P3d 4.3. To maintain one's settings going from 1080p to 2k you'd need to upgrade a 1070 to a 1080ti; going from 2k to a 4k you'd need two 1080ti's.

To the OP: you may also wanna consider a 24" hi performance 1080P monitor, such as an Acer or Asus 144+ Hz gaming monitor. Heck with one of these monitors you'll probably get to add some graphic options to your existing settings after you pull up the vsync anchor.

 

Edit: and all the above assumes you have the cpu power to hande the extra pixels.

Edited by FunknNasty

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I thought 4K @ 30Hz was a go-to config. Apparently, that's not the case? 

As I said, even 1080p would be just fine if it'd support 30Hz but I just can't find ANY that do. In the shop I usually buy computer hardware I can't even find any 1440p that can do 30Hz. 

For the longest time, I'm reading how only 30Hz can produce somehow similar result in P3D to the good old 1/2 refresh rate vsync in FSX. I'm going to buy RTX2080 soon and since it's quite expensive stuff I can't afford another 1000$+ for a monitor. That's why I said I'm looking for a 4K on a budget (lol, I know how ridiculous that sounds). So, my hardware is going to be: i7 4790k @4.5GHz, RTX2080.

It's very easy to find 4K that support 30Hz and pretty much impossible a 1080p that can do the same. 

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@0Artur0 You could just run a 4K 30Hz monitor with a 1080p30 input, it will scale perfectly. Running 1440p on to a 4K you will get off-scaling and it'll look fuzzy.

4K (aka 2160p) gaming is incredibly demanding and simply not possible on a budget, a resolution of 3840*2160=8 megapixels, whereas FHD 1080p 1920*1080=2 megapixels only. That means your computer is having to draw FOUR times as many pixels (for reference 1440p QHD is 3 megapixels, which makes for a nice image between 24 and 30" without having onerous hardware requirements).

@FunknNasty 2K is almost identical to 1080p. 2K is a resolution of 2048*1080 (K refers to vertical lines) and 1080p is 1920*1080 (here the name refers to horizontal lines), sSo the hardware requirement barely changes. The next step up from 2K and 1080p FHD is 1440p QHD, then you'd probably step up to 4K.

Edited by ckyliu

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10 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

 

@FunknNasty 2K is almost identical to 1080p. 2K is a resolution of 2048*1080 (K refers to vertical lines) and 1080p is 1920*1080 (here the name refers to horizontal lines), so the hardware requirement barely changes.

Tell that to the P3d shader engine.  :-)

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2K can't be that bad on P3D, I run 1440p on a 5 year old processor and graphics card!

Edited by ckyliu

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38 minutes ago, 0Artur0 said:

I thought 4K @ 30Hz was a go-to config. Apparently, that's not the case? 

As I said, even 1080p would be just fine if it'd support 30Hz but I just can't find ANY that do. In the shop I usually buy computer hardware I can't even find any 1440p that can do 30Hz. 

For the longest time, I'm reading how only 30Hz can produce somehow similar result in P3D to the good old 1/2 refresh rate vsync in FSX. I'm going to buy RTX2080 soon and since it's quite expensive stuff I can't afford another 1000$+ for a monitor. That's why I said I'm looking for a 4K on a budget (lol, I know how ridiculous that sounds). So, my hardware is going to be: i7 4790k @4.5GHz, RTX2080.

It's very easy to find 4K that support 30Hz and pretty much impossible a 1080p that can do the same. 

https://www.asus.com/Product-Compare/?products=BBu4xOGz3eRRHD2B,rLVFJZ0D5oZwhnq1&b=2

with one these monitors you wont need 30Hz or the vsync required to run 30hz.

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Look, there's two reasons why people run 30Hz:

1) The puter can't handle the requested rendering

2) the monitor is too darn slow

 

It's usually the ladder ...but the blame is usually put on the former.

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16 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

2K can't be that bad on P3D, I run 1440p on a 5 year old processor and graphics card!

2k is not bad, nor is 4k. Lots of pilots run these settings with great satisfaction. The reference point with my posts was the OP's current sim  settings, as a baseline, to measure performance against the different resolutions.

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15 hours ago, FunknNasty said:

https://www.asus.com/Product-Compare/?products=BBu4xOGz3eRRHD2B,rLVFJZ0D5oZwhnq1&b=2

with one these monitors you wont need 30Hz or the vsync required to run 30hz.

Why I wouldn't need 30Hz? 

The only reason I want to go 30hz is the fact that P3D needs to run at least 60FPS if you want to completely eliminate stutters. With 30Hz you "only" need 30FPS. With my current setup I can get 30FPS (with appropriate settings) in almost all situations, even with PMDG stuff, but achieving 60FPS is almost impossible (with all the addons running). Since 1/2 refresh rate vsync doesn't work in P3D I was never able to get the same smoothness in P3D that I got in FSX back in the day with the mentioned setting. 

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5 hours ago, 0Artur0 said:

Why I wouldn't need 30Hz? 

The only reason I want to go 30hz is the fact that P3D needs to run at least 60FPS if you want to completely eliminate stutters. With 30Hz you "only" need 30FPS.

False!

A true statement would look something more like this: 'The only reason I want to go 30hz is the fact that P3D my monitor needs to run at least 60FPS if you want to completely eliminate stutters. With 30Hz you "only" need 30FPS.'

 

Look, the only reason I chimed in was because the thread title caught my eye. 4k is not cheap. And it doesn't matter if the monitor/tv is budget or hi end,.you're going to pay in at least one of two ways and sometimes both, and that is with new hardware or reduced settings.

Because you say you can "get" 30 fps with your current setup at 1080P tells me that you'd be hard pressed to hold 15fps with vsync-on at 30Hz on a 4k screen.

 

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18 minutes ago, FunknNasty said:

False!

A true statement would look something more like this: 'The only reason I want to go 30hz is the fact that P3D my monitor needs to run at least 60FPS if you want to completely eliminate stutters. With 30Hz you "only" need 30FPS.'

 

Look, the only reason I chimed in was because the thread title caught my eye. 4k is not cheap. And it doesn't matter if the monitor/tv is budget or hi end,.you're going to pay in at least one of two ways and sometimes both, and that is with new hardware or reduced settings.

Because you say you can "get" 30 fps with your current setup at 1080P tells me that you'd be hard pressed to hold 15fps with vsync-on at 30Hz on a 4k screen.

 

You know what I meant. P3D on my monitor, of course. 60Hz monitors need at least 60FPS, 30Hz monitors need 30FPS. So, i7 4790k@4.5 and RTX2080 is not adequate to run P3D on 4K? I'm surprised by that since a lot of people use 4K monitors with GTX1080Ti, so I thought RTX2080 should be good enough. I guess I was wrong on that one.

Back to my question... you recommended two ASUS monitors which do look good and are within my budget. I just don't understand your statement that with those I wouldn't need 30Hz. Why? Would I get the same "smoothness" with those monitors as with 30Hz monitor and 30FPS+? How? 

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2 hours ago, 0Artur0 said:

So, i7 4790k@4.5 and RTX2080 is not adequate to run P3D on 4K? I'm surprised by that since a lot of people use 4K monitors with GTX1080Ti, so I thought RTX2080 should be good enough. I guess I was wrong on that one.

I think you’ll be fine with a single monitor. My GPU’s load is around 30% in 1920*1080 and I’m getting fps in the 40s on the ground and it’s hovering around 60 airborne with VSync enabled.

I appreciate UHD is 4 times the pixels but I would still expect to get close to 50 in UHD airborne. I’ll know early next week.

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12 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

 I’m getting fps in the 40s on the ground and it’s hovering around 60 airborne with VSync enabled.

The point of VSync operation is to hold the fps below what it wants to do - down to the refresh frequency of the monitor. As Toimaz says!

So on a 30Hz monitor when VSync is enabled we would see around 30fps if our settings are not too high, and then when VSync is released we see fps climb to what it wants to do - the test mode to see fps capacity.

So if you are seeing fps between 40 and 60 VSync is not operating.

So sorry if that seems to be arrogant or patronising Ray.

 

 

 

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On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 10:51 AM, 0Artur0 said:

Side question.. under system specifications for monitors I often see "vertical frequency" and "horizontal frequency" for Hz. Which one defines that the monitor is 30hz? For example from one of them:

Vertical frequency: 50 ~ 76Hz
Horizontal frequency: 30 ~ 83kHz?

The vertical frequency denotes the natural response of that monitor is 50 - 76 Hz that's the frequency that VSync will look for to determine the time of the next frame which ultimately dictates the ~fps. We can set a profile on the GPU to run it at a division of that frequency.

When we have a 60Hz monitor it may be anything between 55 and 65 HZ so setting a particular limit to 60 might not be precise.

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As fps increases, the time between frames obviously decreases.

That means the time to the view of the next frame on the monitor is less - where that frame is in time when the GPU completes it with respect to the next frame on the monitor.

When fps is low say below 50, the time between frames creeps up enough to mean that there can be long enough, as the frame completes on the GPU, to the point whereby the next frame comes up on the monitor that is noticeable as a long frame.

If we have a 60Hz monitor and we set VSync and see 40 to 60 fps, the only time we see any effect of VSync is when it reaches 60. By then, there's little time between frames that the long frame is gone anyway.

 

So the pint of VSync on a 40 to 60fps system is to hold it at 40 or less otherwise VSync is not operating..

 

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18 minutes ago, SteveW said:

The point of VSync operation is to hold the fps below what it wants to do - down to the refresh frequency of the monitor. As Toimaz says!

So on a 30Hz monitor when VSync is enabled we would see around 30fps if our settings are not too high, and then when VSync is released we see fps climb to what it wants to do - the test mode to see fps capacity.

So if you are seeing fps between 40 and 60 VSync is not operating.

So sorry if that seems to be arrogant or patronising Ray.

You appear to be stalking me Steve. I can assure you VSync is selecte with Triple Buffering checked. I’m simply reporting what I see.

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4 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

You appear to be stalking me Steve. I can assure you VSync is selecte with Triple Buffering checked. I’m simply reporting what I see.

Unfortunately - you continue to mis-understand completely the technology of which we are speaking here Ray. I'm not stalking you - you are dismissive and mistaken.

I'm using your unfortunately worded quote as an example of why folk are not understanding the function of VSync. You might have it set =On but it's not coming into operation as I showed you - take it or leave it - it is how P3D operates that's all I can help you with. Unfortunately you're under the wrong impression for a very odd reason I can't even begin to think of.

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