4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

But where a product is for v4 only then not to add any special features other than dynamic lighting feels like a bit of a con. If like me you rarely fly at night then what difference is there in that v4 only release compared to the earlier one?

Ray, with all due respect, anyone who has taken a course in Logic or Critical Thinking Decision Making would recognize the fallacy of your above statement/question.

Just because YOU don't (or won't) "fly at night" in YOUR flight sim DOSEN'T mean the developer is "conning" anybody with the update.  If the product DOES have a new P3Dv4 capability that DIDN'T exist in P3Dv3, then it IS a "real upgrade".

You can't try to establish your OWN way you use the simulator as the "benchmark" for whether a new addon is an "upgrade" or not.  For the sim users who DO use their sims to fly at night, the addition of Dynamic Lighting IS an accurate upgrade to the product.  Nobody is being "conned" by the developer in your example above.

 

Edited January 7, 20197 yr by FalconAF

9 minutes ago, vgbaron said:

The first thing that comes to my mind is that it is 64bit. That's enough to warrant a "V4 only": title and, in some cases, can be a significant task to convert. I find it perfectly acceptable to make that conversion and not add any other special features initially.

Vic

Sorry Vic, I disagree. How about all textures being 4K for starters? There’s enough memory for them.

10 minutes ago, FalconAF said:

Ray, with all due respect, anyone who has taken a course is Logic or Critical Thinking Decision Making would recognize the fallacy of your above statement/question.

Just because YOU don't (or won't) "fly at night" in YOUR flight sim DOSEN'T mean the developer is "conning" anybody with the update.  If the product DOES have a new P3Dv4 capability that DIDN'T exist in P3Dv3, then it IS a "real upgrade".

You can't try to establish your OWN way you use the simulator as the "benchmark" for whether a new addon is an "upgrade" or not.  For the sim users who DO use their sims to fly at night, the addition of Dynamic Lighting IS an accurate upgrade to the product.  Nobody is being "conned" by the developer in your example above.

 

Rick, I used to be a programmer when I worked so please don’t accuse me of not thinking logically. We’re all entitled to our opinions and just because mine differs to yours doesn’t make you right and me wrong.

4K textures should be included in v4 only releases. I don’t think that’s asking too much.

2 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Sorry Vic, I disagree. How about all textures being 4K for starters? There’s enough memory for them.

Because if LM made ALL textures in the DEFAULT P3D 4K overnight, the users who are using 5-year old computers would scream bloody murder when THEIR computers ran like dogmeat then.

There are plenty of addon developers who will (and already do) provide 4K texture addons for the core simulator.  Heck, already many users of P3D who are still using old computers who realistically SHOULDN'T be using 4K textures buy those addons.  It's their OWN fault when the core simulator "doesn't run right" then.

5 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Rick, I used to be a programmer when I worked so please don’t accuse me of not thinking logically. We’re all entitled to our opinions and just because mine differs to yours doesn’t make you right and me wrong.

I agree 100%, Ray.  Except...

An OPINION is not a rational reason to accuse ANY developer of "conning" the consumer.  You are accusing developers of being "conmen" based on YOUR own opinions.  Which are not facts.

13 minutes ago, FalconAF said:

Because if LM made ALL textures in the DEFAULT P3D 4K overnight, the users who are using 5-year old computers would scream bloody murder when THEIR computers ran like dogmeat then.

There are plenty of addon developers who will (and already do) provide 4K texture addons for the core simulator.  Heck, already many users of P3D who are still using old computers who realistically SHOULDN'T be using 4K textures buy those addons.  It's their OWN fault when the core simulator "doesn't run right" then.

I’m not talking about the default sim. I’m talking about 3rd party airports like the new FB Portland which has them.

If someone buys Portland to run on a 5 year old PC then that’s their mistake. Should we be holding back advances for the sake of those with old computers? If we did then flight sim would hardly advance.

13 minutes ago, FalconAF said:

I agree 100%, Ray.  Except...

An OPINION is not a rational reason to accuse ANY developer of "conning" the consumer.  You are accusing developers of being "conmen" based on YOUR own opinions.  Which are not facts.

You’re over-emphasising my single use of the word con. My actual sentence was “feels like a bit of a con”. That is not calling anyone conmen so please don’t twist what I said.

43 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

You’re over-emphasising my single use of the word con. My actual sentence was “feels like a bit of a con”. That is not calling anyone conmen so please don’t twist what I said.

That's like being a little bit pregnant. 🙂

It's not even a bit of a con, Ray - it is compatible with V4 - that's it - no further changes are implied. You would like more and that's your prerogative but to even imply that the dev is not being straightforward is certainly not fair.

Just as some people accuse devs of being money hungry because they expect every update for free.

If I were a dev, I'd do the same thing. I'd update my product to be compatible first to keep it in the customer's radar and then, later, I'd add more complex features that become available with V4. I see it as smart survival marketing. They only delivered what they promised but not what you expected - that's not their issue.

 

Vic

7 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Sorry Vic, I disagree. How about all textures being 4K for starters? There’s enough memory for them.

There we go... 4K is in most situations absolutely useless, you will not even notice a difference unless you are on a 4K screen (and how many people run a 4K screen nowadays?). First thing I do when a scenery appears with 4K textures and no option for lower res textures: I convert them manually back to 2K or even 1024x1024. Switching to 64bit does not necessarly mean that now VRAM and normal RAM can be hammered with unlimited texture sizes, no? It is already a questionable (although good looking...) route ORBX took with their TE products. Several hundred gigabytes of hard disk space for some square miles of scenery? Is that what you expect from P3Dv4.x native scenery? Well, then. I do not. I am happy with a far superior performance compared to FSX/P3Dv3.x, better eyecandy with DL and shader effects and the generally improved photoground depiction in v4.4 as well as the potential of PBR based addons. I mean, come on, P3D is still developed further. What are you going to discuss after the release of v5? All over again as soon as the first addon with v5 only compatibility is released but in your opinion showing no new features? Did you really ever think any ninute about the time those guys save by simply developing for one version only instead of several ones including a 32bit variant? I still do not get the point why you insist that a v4 only addon has to provide more v4 exclusive features than they usually do with DL and stuff and then the only real point you mention are 4K textures... gosh...

7 hours ago, vgbaron said:

That's like being a little bit pregnant. 🙂

It's not even a bit of a con, Ray - it is compatible with V4 - that's it - no further changes are implied. You would like more and that's your prerogative but to even imply that the dev is not being straightforward is certainly not fair.

Just as some people accuse devs of being money hungry because they expect every update for free.

If I were a dev, I'd do the same thing. I'd update my product to be compatible first to keep it in the customer's radar and then, later, I'd add more complex features that become available with V4. I see it as smart survival marketing. They only delivered what they promised but not what you expected - that's not their issue.

 

Vic

But these products are described as 'Professional'. So you think that adding that description is okay when all that has happened is the product has been made compatible with v4? I couldnt disagree more.

There are other products that are also described as compatible with v4 without the 'Proffesional' tag. What you're saying is both are equal. I disagree. The 'Professional' range should be significantly different from the others. Otherwise the tag is a joke. I would hope I'm not alone in expecting the 'Professional' range to be a big step up in quality.

Maybe these new features will be added to the Professional range. Does it then get a new tag? Professional Plus? It all becomes a bit of a laughing stock dosn't it?

Then blame Lockheed Martin equally for selling a "professional" version of their Prepar3d that is basically identical to the "academic" version.

1 hour ago, AnkH said:

There we go... 4K is in most situations absolutely useless, you will not even notice a difference unless you are on a 4K screen (and how many people run a 4K screen nowadays?).

Useless?? Have you seen aircraft panels and gauges in UHD? They're stunning. Scenery less so because I'm not seeing buildings in 4K. But I'll be watching reviews of FD's Portland because that does have 4K textures. At least one company is using what L-M has provided.

You don't mention what resolution you're running but with hardware like that you should consider UHD. If the hardware can cope with UHD then it's incumbent on the developers to improve their products.

3 minutes ago, AnkH said:

Then blame Lockheed Martin equally for selling a "professional" version of their Prepar3d that is basically identical to the "academic" version.

You know full well we're not allowed to discuss those licences.

8 minutes ago, AnkH said:

Then blame Lockheed Martin equally for selling a "professional" version of their Prepar3d that is basically identical to the "academic" version.

A licence is different to a product Chris 😏

Come on guys. LM sells two identical products due to license reasons (which we do not discuss, I agree) with two different names and that is ok and not relevant. Aerosoft sells two identical products due to additional features such as Dynamic Lightning once as "professional" for P3Dv4.x and once as v2 (or whatever) for FSX or P3Dv3 and we make a huge discussion? Makes no sense, sorry...

Regarding the 4K discussion. Ok, now we suddenly discuss about VC textures? Come on, simply accept that there is no valid argument for your "rage" against products for P3Dv4.x only with "professional" in it's title... You make a story out of nothing here...