Jim Young

Drones back but now at Heathrow!

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Yeah, one can track a frequency source with some degree of accuracy these days, just need to get the equipment and training to the Heathrow police department.

Cheers, Rob.

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word not allowed, stupid people can never be less dumb. They always surpass themselves with their idiotic doings it seems. 

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18 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Yeah, one can track a frequency source with some degree of accuracy these days, just need to get the equipment and training to the Heathrow police department.

Problem is, many drones can be preprogrammed to fly a preset flight profile without need for the control transmitter to be active, and the newer generations often use spread-spectrum RF control links, which make it very difficult to get a DF track, especially if there are other signals interspersed on the channels.

I considered getting myself a new Phantom 4 drone for Christmas, but did not, because I'm getting that hinky feeling that major restrictions or bans may soon be coming in the wake of the kind of misbehavior we're seeing from the enviro-terrorists in the UK, and with the many other as-yet unrealized nefarious possibilities for misuse.  All it's gonna take is one successful deployment of an explosive or poison-delivery weapon with a drone, and the doo-doo is gonna hit the fan.

Regards

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Yep, just takes a few to spoil it for everyone and they know that ... rebel without a cause.  I seem to recall an incident in UK (Brands Hatch) where 3 kids drove their street VW onto the track while a race was in progress ... they did it for "laughs" ... race had to be red flagged.  Their "laugh" has since cost everyone involved in the sport of auto racing to fork out more cash to hold and attend a race event as more security is now required and more regulations ... etc. etc.

It's why a society without regulations could never exist successfully ... someone will always (without exception) screw it up for everyone else ... like someone building a nuclear reactor next to one's home and then dumping the radioactive rods into your local favorite fishing spot.  I guess it's built into human DNA, we must be regulated because we apparently are unable to employ common sense, courtesy, and compromises.

I might be flying in Heathrow next month, so I hope they can come up with something quickly to resolve this issue.

Cheers, Rob. 

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1 hour ago, w6kd said:

I considered getting myself a new Phantom 4 drone for Christmas, but did not, because I'm getting that hinky feeling that major restrictions or bans may soon be coming in the wake of the kind of misbehavior we're seeing from the enviro-terrorists in the UK, and with the many other as-yet unrealized nefarious possibilities for misuse.

My wife bought me a cheap drone for a fun Christmas "toy" this year which has definitely caused the drone bug to bite.  The Phantom 4 is one I've also been drooling over the last few weeks.  Like you, however, I'm hesitant to invest in more serious hardware given recent activities and increasing regulation, with a strong possibility of far more to come.

Scott

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What the people (or person) doing this does not know, is that there has been some pretty serious (R.A.F.) experimental equipment deployed to track down this sort of thing down now, as a direct result of the other incident a few weeks back in the UK. Someone who is in the know about this operation (at my works) told me a little bit about it, although obviously not in great detail. It sounded to me all very sci-fi in terms of its capabilities.

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1 hour ago, Chock said:

What the people (or person) doing this does not know, is that there has been some pretty serious (R.A.F.) experimental equipment deployed to track down this sort of thing down now, as a direct result of the other incident a few weeks back in the UK. Someone who is in the know about this operation (at my works) told me a little bit about it, although obviously not in great detail. It sounded to me all very sci-fi in terms of its capabilities.

We will need it, otherwise our world will become like the future shown in the Terminator movies, where robots and drones menace humans under control of terrorist organizations or repressive governments.  It is the government's use of drones I am worried about, I guess the birds flying around are worried about them too.  The Wright Brothers were so PO'd when the government started to turn their invention into an instrument of terror, but they sold out to the military.  Santos Dumont was the first real champion of general aviation with his cute little ultralight Demosille. Some say he preceded the Wrights in the invention of flying, since I was not around at that time I could not say.  It really comes down to successful, controlled flight, especially when shown overseas.  The Wright's tried to patent flying, just like someone whose name I will not say, the Tom Riddle of flight simulation, tried to patent our hobby as his own idea.  I prefer flight simulation to RC flying, because it has become so realistic with the two dominate sim makers and their competitors, it is just preferable to be in the cockpit, in control, guiding an aircraft rather than letting it fly you, as my CFI's used to say.  I only use autopilot for cruise flight, once I get within 20 miles of an airport I switch to manual flight, no automated approaches for me since there is no challenge there.  Drones that follow preprogrammed flight paths are not the fun that my RC Motorized Glider flying was, which brought out my neighbors in awe of flight since my glider was a park flyer, but just barely since it had a 30 knot speed on approach and no spoilers to slow it down,  like real gliders have.  So I quit RC park flying until they create a prebuilt glider that can be slowed for landing.

John

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Totally don't see the point to having a drone.

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If you were a queen bee you wouldn't be asking that.

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1 hour ago, Boomer said:

Totally don't see the point to having a drone.

Many do it for aerial photography, they want to see their house by the air, but Google Earth has that really covered well, I have used it to see all my old residences, places I've stayed for an extended time, like on business trips, and where my ex wife and I live now.  If I see weeds in her yard, I come over to trim the verge for her, something we enjoy doing together....

John

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2 hours ago, Boomer said:

Totally don't see the point to having a drone.

Leaving aside the fact that flying one is just plain (plane 🙂 ) fun - in a word - photography, both still and video.  Take a look at the Phantom 4 that Bob and I both reference.  The opportunities for incredible aerial photography are endless. 

A shame that a few bad actors spoil the show.

Scott

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It seems to me like this was a DJI Drone. I think DJI needs to extend the No Fly Circle over Heathrow. Right now it's really small and you could fly your drone on the approach path

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I also thought about buying a drone, just for fun and interest in all things which fly... But when I think about all the stupid things happened over the last years since drones are a hype, I dont want to be recognized as 'one of this drone idiots' when flying in public. 

Humans are too dumb for drones. Sad but true. 

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6 hours ago, Boomer said:

Totally don't see the point to having a drone.

Drones have certainly made aerial shots in movies a much more affordable proposition for directors and they are useful for making inspections of tall or inaccessible structures and such. Both of these endeavours used to be prohibitively expensive for anyone who couldn't afford to hire a helicopter and probably also a steadicam or other gimbled camera rig of some sort too. But all of those things are the sort of stuff businesses would do professionally and that's a very different proposition from some toerag with no idea of what he or she is playing at flying a drone in some restricted airspace, although having said that, even someone at home could use one to inspect the roof of their house, which might actually be a useful thing to do.

So I've no wish to spoil people's fun if they like flying them, but in my opinion, the things should be licensed and they should have transponder or some other sort of easily trackable system on them too. Nobody who wants to use a drone sensibly can really have an objection to taking a basic competency test which covers knowledge of airspace restrictions to ideally result in the user acquiring a license. So so long as it isn't stupidly expensive or needlessly bureaucratic to achieve this, which I can't imagine it would be, then I don't see how anyone with a degree of responsibility could object to this.

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I got my daughter a radio control 4X4 truck for Christmas this year, she loves it. I agree no need for drones, that 4x4 in the mud in the backyard is awesome

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The US enacted drone laws last year. They are somewhat weak in my opinion, but regulation is in place to cover airport intrusion. I'm not sure at this point how much scrutiny is given to them but all it takes is one idiot to violate a major airspace and all heck will break loose on drone owners. Seems like that's how we do things over here.

https://uavcoach.com/drone-laws-in-united-states-of-america/

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I guess this is somewhat related. My showreel... 

 

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6 hours ago, 188AHC said:

The US enacted drone laws last year. They are somewhat weak in my opinion, but regulation is in place to cover airport intrusion. I'm not sure at this point how much scrutiny is given to them but all it takes is one word not allowed to violate a major airspace and all heck will break loose on drone owners. Seems like that's how we do things over here.

https://uavcoach.com/drone-laws-in-united-states-of-america/

Here is the new Canadian law by comparison, they are more regulated compared to the USA:

  • Registered owners of drones must be at least 14 years old and a citizen or permanent resident of Canada. Corporations and federal, municipal or provincial governments can also own drones.
  • If you want to fly a drone in conditions where it's not in visual line of sight at all times, you'll need a special certificate (among situations where a certificate is needed). The operator of a drone also won't be allowed to fly it too close to airports or heliports or in controlled airspace, and will have to give way to aircraft, airships, gliders and balloons.
  • With the exception of police, rescue and firefighting operations, nobody will be allowed to fly a drone over or within a security perimeter set up by officials in response to an emergency. That could prohibit news organizations from using drones equipped with cameras to get aerial footage of crimes, disasters or terrorist attacks.
  • Drinking alcohol within 12 hours of being on a drone flight crew is prohibited, as is being "under the influence of alcohol" or "any drug that impairs the person's faculties to the extent that aviation safety or the safety of any person is endangered or likely to be endangered."
  • Anyone who is tired or otherwise unable to properly perform their duties is prohibited from operating a drone or taking part in a drone flight crew.
  • No one will be allowed to fly a drone when the weather conditions prevent seeing it at all times, or when frost, ice or snow are stuck to it. Anyone wanting to fly a drone at night will need special lights.
  • To fly a drone over a concert or sporting event, the operator will need a special flight operations certificate. It will also take a special flight operations certificate for a drone to transport things like explosives, weapons, ammunition, or flammable or biohazardous material.
  • There will be two levels of pilot certificates to operate a drone. Those with a basic certificate will have to be at least 14 years old and pass a test. However, the regulations also provide for someone under 14 to operate a drone if supervised by someone 14 or older who has a certificate.
  • Those with advanced operations certificates will get to fly closer to airports and controlled airspace. They will have to be at least 16 years old and pass an exam and a flight review.
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1 hour ago, Rockliffe said:

I guess this is somewhat related. My showreel... 

Not impressed with the video Howard.  I guess it's something you can do with a $900 gadget but visit to websites does much of the same with tons of images inside and out.  I use Google if I want to walk down the streets of Miami or look at an aerial view.  I still see no reason for private citizens to own except for some voyeurism and most of that is illegal.

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Drones are also banned in all Florida State Parks. I'm not sure about National Parks but I've heard they are banned there too except by special permit.

 

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21 minutes ago, Jim Young said:

Not impressed with the video Howard.  I guess it's something you can do with a $900 gadget but visit to websites does much of the same with tons of images inside and out.  I use Google if I want to walk down the streets of Miami or look at an aerial view.  I still see no reason for private citizens to own except for some voyeurism and most of that is illegal.

Interesting response Jim. I'm perplexed you're not impressed, not that I'm bothered, I guess my 25 years as a cameraman have been in vain! Silly me, I just thought as a long term member of Avsim, some may be interested in my efforts as a CAA commercially licenced operator. Next time I'm asked to capture material for a TV documentary I'll point them in your direction and get them to ask you to log into Google Earth!

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Posted (edited)

Drones can provide some very useful features for Military, Police, Fire & Rescue ... from locating people stranded and finding the best route to rescue or to enter a building that is on fire and looking for people that might need to be rescued, or scanning a suspicious package (aka bomb) without putting someone else in danger.  There are many other practical uses for drones including providing imagery at a fraction of the cost for scenery developers to use in a flight simulator.

Oddly drones do have more restriction than guns and I see no reason why "unqualified" private citizens should have guns either (and gun users have caused far more deaths than drone users) ... maybe drone users need to start an DRA 😉 

There are valid reasons for both guns/drones, it's the qualification process and poor choices on how to regulate which is often controlled by special interest which is really another word for "sales" (aka money).  I got more of a qualification/challenge process when "applying" to own a pet from our local Pet adoption center, than walking into a gun store in Florida where I just need to fork over the cash cause I clearly look over 18 ... in fact I could have bought every gun in the store and there is no law to prevent, same with drones and now that some DIYer's have modified "personal use" drones with weapons can't wait for that abuse to ramp up and the trouble it's going to cause.  It's a world where common sense and consistency doesn't seem to apply ... we accept that humans are flawed but don't seem to put in place the necessary "effective" restrictions to minimize the impact of our flaws. 

Cheers, Rob.

Edited by Guest

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I got more of a qualification/challenge process when "applying" to own a pet from our local Pet adoption center, than walking into a gun store in Florida

Bizarre 😣 

Edited by Rockliffe

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57 minutes ago, Rockliffe said:

Interesting response Jim. I'm perplexed you're not impressed, not that I'm bothered, I guess my 25 years as a cameraman have been in vain! Silly me, I just thought as a long term member of Avsim, some may be interested in my efforts as a CAA commercially licenced operator. Next time I'm asked to capture material for a TV documentary I'll point them in your direction and get them to ask you to log into Google Earth!

You did not indicate you made the video (you did indicate "my showreel" which, in the USA could mean you were referencing a video to show the capabilities of the drone).  If so impressive.  I thought you were showing something commercially made to show why we should buy drones.  After 25 years, I cannot be right every time.  I get some things wrong once in a while. 

I do know they are also used to help video and photograph weddings and funerals. 

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