Or, as it looks now, they have already changed. And, IMNSHO, not for the better. Subscribe here for the beta. Subscribe there for the demo. Things just aren't the same around here. So...I'm outa here until well after the release. I wish MS luck with their new approach but it's just not for me. (As my Daddy told me when I was just a little shaver - life's too short to dance with ugly women. And too short to get upset over a computer game.) Doug

Ya, maybe its a small minority but I don't like it either. Why pay 12 dollars now for something you will get in a couple months.

>Why pay 12 dollars now for something you will get in a couple>months. Don't then.

Your whining is a bit premature dont you think? What makes you SO sure you wont be able to get the demo for free from somewhere. Or do you just want to be the first on this board to whine and moan about the latest "outrage"! Dont want to pay for the demo than dont! This is the first time a demo has been released and the first time there has been a public beta so to say times are "changin" is not really accurate is it!Anyway, even if you do have to pay for the demo/beta, it will be worth it to be one of the first to say how inadequate it is and how FS9 is so much better.This board gets more entertaining every day.Brew

>This is the first>time a demo has been released and the first time there has>been a public beta so to say times are "changin" is not really> accurate is it!>>>BrewSo what exactly is your definition of change then?It sure sounds like things are changing when it's the first time this has happened in over 25 years of the franchise lol.....Doug, I agree with ya :-) Things are starting to get weird around here.

so he rather there was no demo? Why can't he pretend there isn't one and not upload it! lol

>So what exactly is your definition of change then?>>It sure sounds like things are changing when it's the first>time this has happened in over 25 years of the franchise>lol.....I think you missed the point of my post. While there are some firsts being offered now, times are not "a changin" in terms of being required to register and spend $$ to download the beta/demo. Nothing has changed because we have never seen this before.Why are people so upset about this? A demo and public beta is very exciting in my opinion. I just get the impression people around here like to complain about everything good or bad.Brew

I don't get it. You don't have to pay for anything. With most of the pay -for-demo websites, all you are getting is a guaranteed download. Instead of having to wait your turn, by paying you never have to wait. As for paying for the beta. That is a retarded idea, especially if you aren't already a subscriber to fileplanet. But since I have used fileplanet many times for downloading demo's and have a paid account with them, signing up for the beta is a no - brainer. besides what's $30 when I easily shell that out and more for a certain payware 747. And lets not forget all the other money I have spent for quality add-ons. And if I don't get picked to try out the beta via fileplanet, oh well, I will still have my membership and most likely will be able to pick up the demo from them and many other cool demos coming down the line.

Just for the record, you don't have to subscribe to Gamespot to download the demo. The difference with the subscription is that you get to use their high speed servers instead of their public download servers. I think the ACES Team and MS are really moving forward in what this sim should offer, excitement. Offering a demo is the premier way in getting people excited about this game, especially non-simmers. This demo shows how committed the developers are, and I'm super excited for it! I mean isn't this what we always wanted? Why is everyone so turned off by it?Eric

Well, gee, Eric...I think you actually nailed it with your description. They're upset that Microsoft might actually be letting non-simmers into their club. They've seen the kind of people that play more mainstream games, and they don't like them...and they're worried that ACES and Microsoft will see the money that the gamer crowd brings with them and that ACES will sell the "hardcore simmer" out for the gamers.I really don't think that the changes will be anywhere near as drastic and earth-shattering as anything these guys appear to be expecting. If they really feel that the announcement of an open beta test and a demo release require them to hide from the forums here, well...their input will be missed. But I am more of the opinion that the type A personality that is the typical competitive gamer will quickly find that there's nothing to shoot at in the FS world, so they won't stay around long. But the people that we hope will stick aren't the average gamer types...and I hope that many of these new people will get sucked into this hobby just as badly as the rest of us have :-lolFolks, one thing that all of us really need to remember is that everyone that pays their $40 for a copy of MSFS deserves the right to be heard and to have just as much of an opinion as anyone else here. We're diverse, remember? If we don't welcome new interest in Flight Simulator, the franchise stagnates. None of us want that to happen, right? But if you absolutely need to get worked up about this, go ahead...AVSIM will still be here when you get back.

Very well put KrazyIvan. I say the more newbies that get involved in FS the better. Either they stick with it or they don't. I doubt the majority will sign up for AVSIM and VATSIM after purchasing a copy and flood the forums and virtual skies, making a mockery of FS in the process...I think ACES will stay true to the FS community for years to come and we really have nothing to worry about.Eric

No worries, I will not be.

>Anyway, even if you do have to pay for the demo/beta, it will>be worth it to be one of the first to say how inadequate it is>and how FS9 is so much better.:-lol

Thats the point for me...they put a demo out on a well known site hoping to attract "gamers". We "simmers" have supported the franchise for 25 years and it is not hard to see MS wants to go more X-Box type style with it. This version missions and you can now use the X Box controller for it (both gamer related and targeted), next version Lord only knows what?? They have stated publicly they want to broaden it to appeal to more users..read that to mean gamers. True, there are more gamers out there but I always thought MSFS to be a little bit above the "Doom" and "Far Cry" type crowds. Thats my opinion anyways.

My guess is, that on the same day or maybe the day after the demo will be available on a site like www.filefront.com. As free download and without signing up orwhatever!Gerrithttp://members.chello.nl/g.kranenbarg/gwkh...s/bluesmall.gif