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Robert Kirkland

Another Terrorist linked to the Flight Simming Community!

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If 30 hours is looked at as "obsessive" I am in 'Big Trouble". ;)

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Tabbloid news? nothing on bbc site..Johan[A HREF=http://jdserver.no-ip.com]Personal Server[/A]A LITTLE LESS CONVERSATION, AND A LITTLE MORE ACTION PLEASE!HELP:http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=238882

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MikeI believe this brings into question (yet again) the issue I raised some time ago with Tom Allensworth regarding names used on these forums.I said then and I repeat now that I believe it should be a forum rule to ONLY post using real names. My reason some time ago was to try and stop 'less mature' from writing offensive threads etc whilst hiding behind pseudonames. What you're reporting today is of course, much more sinister.Whilst I accept there may be difficulties in 'policing' identities to verify they're real, action should, IMO, now be seriously considered for AVSIM (at least) to know exactly what's being posted and by whom.I have never understood the need or wish to hide behind an alias or nickname. Sure, protect your address etc, but at least AVSIM (and/or Flightsim.com or whoever) should be able to check who you are.Just my two pence worth.Toni.

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Perhaps the next FS Version could include a lockout of some sort that would block any direct navigation to ANY building in FS. Sort of an invisible 200 mile range "bubble" when at an altitude that would cause a building crash?? Just a thought. Might stop some "idiot" from trying to practice such a manuever.

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Ron, that was a joke post right? How about we just get rid of FS Altogether, so people can't do this stuff. Either way, if someone wants to bad enough, they can learn ANYTHING.Lets assume for a moment that your idea is implimented, can they Cross directly over a VOR? Sure they can, guess if they can do that, then they can turn directly into something else. Same thing.Still, I don't know why people insist on making posts like this thread. I come here to relax and get away from the tragedies of the real world, not to read about them.The more you post about Terrorists, the more coverage they get, the more they want to do it.And I guess the Original poster is part of the FBI, CIA, Secret Service, MI5 Scotland Yard, or whatever else, to have such valuable information on this guy. Maybe he should be talking to them, insead of posting here?

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>Perhaps the next FS Version could include a lockout of some>sort that would block any direct navigation to ANY building in>FS. >Sort of an invisible 200 mile range "bubble" when at an>altitude that would cause a building crash?? Just a thought.>Might stop some "idiot" from trying to practice such a>manuever.> 200 Mile range, you can't be serious. That would eliminate just about every major airport in the entire world. I guess the next thing that will be banned is toy guns, so the terrorists can't practice shooting at someone. ;)

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I don't know if I want Avsim to know who I am. Furthermore, how will they find out? Make me fax a notarized picture ID? There is no way to ensure information is accurate, nor does Avsim have the time to process or the skill set to know what to do with that information. I mean, hey, you have to draw the line somewhere. As it stands, innocent people are being grabbed by police and held on the ground while shots are fired into their head just in case they're carrying a bomb. Once we start regulating and monitoring games and game sites we don't have much of a free society left. The authorities should focus their activities where they will get the highest return. If one of the losers played bingo would we investigate and infiltrate bingo parlors? billg

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Just everyone on house arrest and make it a requirement to apply for a permit to go shopping or go to work. I bet we could cut crime in general way back too. billg

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Wish I had never read your post Mike. :( ...I truly love FS simming and love the way I can enjoy it w/o thinking about the real horrors of this world we live in. I live in London and had a holiday booked in Sharm el Sheik!.I will not be reading any future posts with terrorist in the title.

regardsEd

http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/122597.jpgAMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1024Mb PC3200 DDR, 300Gb HD 128Mb DDR Nvidia 6600GT PCI Express, Audigy 2 ZSCH Products Yoke, Pedals and Throttle Quadrant

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So he liked flight sims? Big deal. Doesn't mean jack. There wasn't any aircraft involved in the terrorist attack - by all indications it was simply a hobby to him. If (for example) a New York Jets fan commits a triple murder, nobody looks askance at the New York Jets. Anyone who infers anything about the flightsimming community from this is a reactionary moron.

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I've been looking at going to Sharm el Sheik as well, sometime in August if I can find anything decent.Have you been before Ed, any recommendations?Holidays are a much better discussion and good way to throw a thread OT.

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Paul,It was just one of those off the cuff thoughts:-) Only an opinion, nothing more....was thinking in terms of some of the sim situations where there is an invisible building barrier caused by certain scenery/aircraft combinations:-)Not really serious...should have put a bunch of these in I guess. :-lol :-lol :-lol

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I've been told terrorists breathe oxygen, you aren't a terrorist, are you???

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Ah, didn't see that press release, well, obviously his *alleged* name is now revealed.Mike T.

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Paul:What the poster does for a living or for whom, is of no concern to you.However, the poster posted because this is a place where people post news in relation to the fs community, good or bad. If bad news disturbs you, then put on your blinders and dig a hole in which to hide with your blankie OR simply don't read them. It would be obvious to me that you would be totally afraid to read the news paper or turn on the news on TV... surely you live in Shangrila where there is no bad news?Grow up.Mike T.

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That's sad, next time you check we'll get cracked on although we've done nothing wrong, just like it's happening with airplane spotters. The obsessive paranoia over terrorism won't stop it from happening, neither will banning stuff and intimidating people. As far as I'm concerned, they can watch me all they want... Nothing to hide here. But I doubt that's the only repercussion this type of news will have on the community.Daniel P.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpgMember of SJU Photography. [A HREF=http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=9004]Click Here[/A] to view my aircraft photos at JetPhotos.Net!The official psychotic AA painter. :)

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Donny AKA ShalomarFly 2 ROCKS!!!How come nobody is linking gang shootouts in big cities to playing Quake or Doom? It's a much less preposterous conclusion than supposing someone on a flight sim might be a terrorist in training. But labeling terrorists "cowards, losers" etc is an oversimplification itself. After all, they are willing to die for what they believe. They survive because they can tap into a ready well of resentment, formed over decades because too often democracy stops at the border. Free western `nations have supported countless repressive regimes in their own supposed self interest. The loss of Iran as an ally because its people identified the US with the Shah, our turning to support of Iraq which then rolled over Kuwait and led to foreign troops being deployed to Saudi Arabia- Isn't it about time the chain gets broken? Even now, Pakistan is one of our closest allies. Ever check out their record on human rights?Even if Bin Laden is caught or killed, the underlying resentment must be removed or many others will be willing to take his place. If the western Democracies actually start practicing beyond their borders, our current enemies will be reduced to a bunch of individual "Lee Harvey Oswald" types who will mostly choke on their own venom. Nobody will follow them across the street, much less to death.As for increased surveilance of flite sim enthusiasts, what else is new? Speaking as someone who worked at an airport in 2001, it was pilot-lounge gossip that arab immigrants were acting suspiciously at flight schools. In August 2001, after the arrest of "the 20th hijacker", it was clear at least to me their plans would go to the fast track. One acusation against him was a plot to bomb airport terminals in California. What was the destination of every hijacked plane, and what do relatives do when a plane goes down? Go to the airport. I went to Washington and had a conversation that the Chief of the White House detail of the Secret Service was present for. An attack by hijacked airliners on the World Trade Center was clearly discussed. I'm not holding my breath till the videotape sees the light of day. But one other method of attack I expressed concern about, which intelligence has already shown the terrorists have interest in, is still not dealt with adequately in the milti-billion dollar airport security package.Best Regards, Donny:-wave

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Guess I am in Deep Kim Chee. I have over 2000 hours of FS2004 time. Of course this person also attached a rail line. Did they check for MSTS time as well?

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Book yr holiday in Hawaii and this wont be a concern.Eric

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"But labeling terrorists "cowards, losers" etc is an oversimplification itself. After all, they are willing to die for what they believe. They survive because they can tap into a ready well of resentment, formed over decades because too often democracy stops at the border."That's also an oversimplification, I feel. Anyone can be brainwashed into believing that dying for what they believe is worthwhile by having their belief structure manipulated. I for one think where democracy stops makes no difference. Even in the most progressive country, you'll find people who don't fire on all cylinders. They exist in their beliefs in part because they convince themselves and people they rope in that it's everyone else's fault. The U.S. isn't perfect nor is Britain or any other country that's a target. But do you think these people are dying so democracy can be extended to their borders? They are dying because some master manipulator, like Saddam, Bin Laden, Arafat--whoever--taught them to throw their lives away for the Bin Laden, Arafat or Saddam "vision" of a dream world. None of those I mention have/had any intent on bringing democracy to the Middle East. Just tell the women brutalized and raped by the Taliban whether they lived in a democracy. I believe as a forum "moderator" I should stay neutral, but I bristle when anyone even remotely links these types of attacks to a valid "cause". These kids aren't dying for a cause--they are dying because someone told them 40 or 60 or 80 virgins are waiting around the corner. I agree we can't call them cowards--even I believed in the tooth fairy once--but Bin Laden, Saddam, or anyone leading the new, "free" Iran? I bet you they wouldn't even last a few rounds with a five year old, judging from the "guts" they show by roping in 19 year olds into brainwashing and their deaths.-John

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Donny all I can say about that is these guys need to quit attacking the little people. The people who are victims because of the governments they live under. The people that go to work day in and day out whose survival depends on the shaky prospect of increasingly lower paid employment and no guarantee of retirement (United Airlines)... We as Americans (and I'm sure the same can be said in England) all but have no say in our own politics anymore, our presidential choices, and the dirt they do all over the world, yet we are the targets of the retaliatory efforts based on our governments choices (far from our own).One of the last true freedoms I have (since economically I've hit a glass ceiling) is coming home and downloading the latest FS release. FS sadly is one of the last few joys I have in life (since I've figured out how crappy women can be..lol...). Technology is hear to move us forward and just because we have this tool (or any tool for that matter) someone is going to find a way to corrupt it. Just like the abuse of power Corporations have all over the world. A good point was made above about DOOM and Ganges. When youth gange crime is rampant in the inner cities of countries around the world no one says let's redirect what children are exposed to. No one pulls the violent self destructive music off the shelves or puts heat on companies that produce titles like 'Grand Theft Auto', MTV or VH1 for the over sexed content that is marketed to children. As soon as the rich are threatened then the fingers are pointed. Flight Simulation seems to carry the brunt of scrutiny by the powers that be. 9/11 was tragic but so is the deterioration of the American society (I can't speak for other places). It

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billg:"As it stands, innocent people are being grabbed by police and held on the ground while shots are fired into their head just in case they're carrying a bomb."Let's not exagerate to that extent, Bill. It's not "innocent people", it was one person, and he brought it on himself.The individual in question had a 'Middle Eastern' appearance (Yes, I know he turned out to be Brazilian) and came out of the building where bombs had been made, wearing a backpack similar to those the bombers carried their bombs in. When the police told him to stop, he ran from them, ran into a tube station, vaulted the turnstiles and forced his way onto a departing train. When the cops tackled him and forced him to the ground, one of them saw him trying to put his hand into the front of his jacket and thought he was going for a trigger switch, so they shot him.Unfortunate? Yes. Avoidable? Yes - by the guy not running from the police in the first place, and not fighting with them when he was caught. Had the police NOT shot him, and it had turned out that he was in fact a bomber going for a switch and reached it, there'd be a train full of corpses - and the same people now criticizing the police for shooting him would be criticizing them for letting him trigger his bomb.The police have said that they're satisfied he wasn't involved in the bombings, and it's a shame it happened - but he brought his shooting on himself by running when he was told to stop.Richard

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>Perhaps the next FS Version could include a lockout of some>sort that would block any direct navigation to ANY building in>FS. >Sort of an invisible 200 mile range "bubble" when at an>altitude that would cause a building crash?? Just a thought.>Might stop some "idiot" from trying to practice such a>manuever.>Smilies later on aside, I think you were serious about that post.I hope you intend on banning Whitewater Rafting as well, since a couple of them spent a few hours on that hobby as well.These Moron pathetic thug terrorists didn't get near an airplane with all these alleged hours of training on a PC Game, so I find the whole assumption stupid as it has nothing to do with the terrorist bombings that did occur.These acts are scourges on society and civilization as a whole. I would say more, but I have better places to post my thoughts on these scum. And I do.Sonar5aopa.gif" border="0" alt="Grab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

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I really wish the>news quit trying at every opportunity to link terrorism to>Flight Simulation. They may as well report the guy drank>Coke, ate McDonalds, and had a monthy bus pass

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