flyinion

What's the Sim everyone is using now?

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Hi guys, been out of using FSX for a couple years now.  I do have the Steam edition installed along with all my various addons, just haven't been using it.  The system is about 4.5 years old and it's about time for a new build.  I was thinking maybe it's time to move to a new sim that still supports at least my Orbx stuff.  I'm not sure what is the best route to go though.  Keep using FSX:SE, Prepar3d, or X-Plane?  If I went with something besides FSX:SE is it safe to assume Intel is still the king for performance on flight sims or is AMD doing well on the newer sims as well?  I had planned to go Intel again just looking for some general direction there.  If AMD is doing decent now too I can figure out what to go with, just wanted to see if the general opinion from a few years ago that the fastest single threaded processor was still generally preferred even for the new sims like Prepare3d.

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25 minutes ago, flyinion said:

Hi guys, been out of using FSX for a couple years now.  I do have the Steam edition installed along with all my various addons, just haven't been using it.  The system is about 4.5 years old and it's about time for a new build.  I was thinking maybe it's time to move to a new sim that still supports at least my Orbx stuff.  I'm not sure what is the best route to go though.  Keep using FSX:SE, Prepar3d, or X-Plane?  If I went with something besides FSX:SE is it safe to assume Intel is still the king for performance on flight sims or is AMD doing well on the newer sims as well?  I had planned to go Intel again just looking for some general direction there.  If AMD is doing decent now too I can figure out what to go with, just wanted to see if the general opinion from a few years ago that the fastest single threaded processor was still generally preferred even for the new sims like Prepare3d.

I use for air: P3DV4.4, XPlane11.32 and the old classic, Wings of Prey to fill out my rare shoot 'em up urges.

For ground I use No Limits Coaster Sim 2 and Trainsim 2019 (a fantastic sim which has given me free yearly upgrades in the six or seven years I have had it)

I have never run a sim with an AMD, my spec are fairly tame but my system was harmonized specifically for Xplane11 and P3DV4 which both had been released some months before I got my system, the salesperson at Fry's Electronics here in Phoenix off of 35th and Thunderbird promised that and he is the first commission electronics salesperson I ever trusted since I used to build my own systems.  I decided back then, especially because my old system had died and I was in a hurry to get anything new, to trust him and I do not regret it.  Many will tell you specs greater than mine are needed and I would say it depends on whether you want your skies to be clouded with AI or not, and only in P3DV4, Xplane11 has never choked my system.

I fly over mainly photoreal scenery which is a memory hog but even with just a 3GB GPU and 8GB on the main board, OOM issues have never happened to me.

Also both Xplane11 and P3DV4, which used to CTD on me maybe every 24 hours of simming or so, have ceased to do that with their latest patches.

Today for simmers we are in a buyer's, not seller's market--take advantage while you can because with escalating trade restrictions, depending on where you live, prices may go up or they may not.  Remember that a large number of hardware products are made in Asia, China or other countries, so trade restrictions can cause a price spike once the current crop of systems dries up. 

What I do not know is how much standing inventory there is, remembering that we as simmers might upgrade fairly often, but outside of cell phones the non gamers do not upgrade often, my ex wife tells me she still uses the laptop I gave her some five years ago and my daughter uses her laptop my ex and I gave her as her last big ticket present.  We bought her a gaming laptop, though unlike her Papa she is not a flight simmer, just enjoys watching me fly when she comes to visit down from her University.

John

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1 hour ago, flyinion said:

Hi guys, been out of using FSX for a couple years now.  I do have the Steam edition installed along with all my various addons, just haven't been using it.  The system is about 4.5 years old and it's about time for a new build.  I was thinking maybe it's time to move to a new sim that still supports at least my Orbx stuff.  I'm not sure what is the best route to go though.  Keep using FSX:SE, Prepar3d, or X-Plane?  If I went with something besides FSX:SE is it safe to assume Intel is still the king for performance on flight sims or is AMD doing well on the newer sims as well?  I had planned to go Intel again just looking for some general direction there.  If AMD is doing decent now too I can figure out what to go with, just wanted to see if the general opinion from a few years ago that the fastest single threaded processor was still generally preferred even for the new sims like Prepare3d.

Before you change anything, a few questions for you to consider:

  • Are you back into flight simming in a big way and excited about it?
  • What are you hoping for / expecting from the 64-bit sims?
  • Do you have sufficient financial resources to update / upgrade / change what you already have (both software and hardwire-wise)?


If you are sure that you will thoroughly enjoy flight simming again, you should ask yourself if you are happy with what FSX:SE gives you.

Moving to the 64-bit sims is going to be a pricey undertaking, the upgrade path for P3Dv4 products from FSX ones is hit and miss, with aircraft having to be re-purchased at full price. FSX scenery usually works (ORBX scenery definitely does).
Obviously, choosing XP11 will mean starting from scratch.

Why choose to go to P3D4 or XP11? The big one is the stability of a 64-bit sim, no more OOMs.
Graphics have improved and a lot of developers (but not all) have given up creating new products for 32-bit sims.
Which one, P3D or XP? Plenty of pros and cons about both, depends on what you want most from your simming experience. (Plenty of word not allowed on both sides).

With regards to hardware, while the load is better spread amongst other cores and the GPU for certain tasks, we are all still somewhat limited by single thread processor performance in P3D.

Your PC can hold its own in the newer sims (everyone still has to make compromises, even with those with the newest, fastest and most expensive hardware), but you could definitely do with more and faster RAM.

Test your PC's performance - Lockheed Martin gives a one-off 60-day refund policy. (Please don't ask about licences, choose the one that best applies to you).

Final point; AMD is releasing their 3rd Generation of Ryzen CPUs this summer. It is expected, but not yet confirmed that they will finally match the very best Intel CPUs for single thread performance and gaming, while again undercutting the usually high prices Intel charges. 
I and many, many others are watching AMD with a lot of hope and expectation for Ryzen 3rd Gen.

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28 minutes ago, F737NG said:

Before you change anything, a few questions for you to consider:

  • Are you back into flight simming in a big way and excited about it?
  • What are you hoping for / expecting from the 64-bit sims?
  • Do you have sufficient financial resources to update / upgrade / change what you already have (both software and hardwire-wise)?


If you are sure that you will thoroughly enjoy flight simming again, you should ask yourself if you are happy with what FSX:SE gives you.

Moving to the 64-bit sims is going to be a pricey undertaking, the upgrade path for P3Dv4 products from FSX ones is hit and miss, with aircraft having to be re-purchased at full price. FSX scenery usually works (ORBX scenery definitely does).
Obviously, choosing XP11 will mean starting from scratch.

Why choose to go to P3D4 or XP11? The big one is the stability of a 64-bit sim, no more OOMs.
Graphics have improved and a lot of developers (but not all) have given up creating new products for 32-bit sims.
Which one, P3D or XP? Plenty of pros and cons about both, depends on what you want most from your simming experience. (Plenty of word not allowed on both sides).

With regards to hardware, while the load is better spread amongst other cores and the GPU for certain tasks, we are all still somewhat limited by single thread processor performance in P3D.

Your PC can hold its own in the newer sims (everyone still has to make compromises, even with those with the newest, fastest and most expensive hardware), but you could definitely do with more and faster RAM.

Test your PC's performance - Lockheed Martin gives a one-off 60-day refund policy. (Please don't ask about licences, choose the one that best applies to you).

Final point; AMD is releasing their 3rd Generation of Ryzen CPUs this summer. It is expected, but not yet confirmed that they will finally match the very best Intel CPUs for single thread performance and gaming, while again undercutting the usually high prices Intel charges. 
I and many, many others are watching AMD with a lot of hope and expectation for Ryzen 3rd Gen.

I'd say very good advice for the original poster.  I feel we are in the Heydey of sims, the days of wine and roses, sims we dreamed about when we started the hobby, many of us in the early 80's like myself.  I still have a copy of FS2 in an emulator that I run at times for old times sake, but not often.  I just run it to remind me of where our hobby has been.  In those days there were no aircraft add ons but there were scenery add ons and one would swap out disks depending on where one would fly, until hard drives became in vogue.

Today I do not dream of sims of the future as much as I used to because I am happy with the two top choices, P3D and Xplane, and I am happy with the ground based sims, like Trainsim and No Limits Coaster, both of which give a great speed rush.

What I am waiting for are the hardware performance increases sure to sneak out of the door in the coming years.  While I am happy with my slower cpu speed, I believe we will see cpu's in the 10-20GHZ range in the 2020's, maybe even beyond that, and with their internal cooling they will double as home air conditioners, lol....  However employers will be angry because they will not be able to drag our carcasses away from our hobby, sick days will become more common, and society as we know it will thus collapse, lol.... 

But never fear, since I am retired now, I will just build a bicycle powered generator in my apartment and exercise and sim at the same time!

JC

 

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Well, the good news is that flight sims finally managed to drag themselves kicking and screaming into the era where modern hardware could be made use of. Specifically, they're all kicking 64 bits of data around now, so running out of virtual memory is no longer a worry for the most part, and they're even making use of dedicated GPUs instead of relying on the CPU for graphics, although we'll probably have to wait fro the next main iteration of Lockheed Martin's P3D to see that really happen for that sim, as it is still a bit CPU-dependent. All the other contenders are also on that GPU and 64 bit train too.

What all this has meant for most people, is that rather than getting completely partisan about one particular flight sim, far more people are these days choosing to use a few of them for their particular merits, depending on where their forte sits and what they want to simulate. Broadly-speaking, this has meant if you want low and slow in a GA fixed wing or chopper, where the visuals are a big factor, graphically it's hard to beat XPlane's depiction of that, whereas if you want every airliner system simulated to the Nth degree up at 38,000 feet, and need every add-on under the sun to soup up your airliner so it's replicating everything a real jetliner has, P3D is a good choice. If you want some super-duper realistic combat, DCS World, and if you want gliding, then it is Condor 2.

Having said that, each one of those sims nips away at the other contenders and adds stuff to widen its remit on almost a weekly basis, and there are other contenders too, such as AeroFly FS2 and we'll soon be seeing Deadstick Bush Flight Simulator released (in a couple of months apparently), which looks like it's really going to be something.

Because of this, if I were you, I'd crank up FSX and sit back and observe things on the various flight sim forums for a while to see what floats your boat, because whilst all those options is great in terms of variety and choice, it would get expensive to hit on it all in one go. Unless you've recently won the lottery, in which case go for it lol.

FSX Steam version is still pretty usable for the most part, so you don't have to feel left behind, although the advent of graphics being really pushed in terms of scenery and everything including the kitchen sink being simulated on complex airliners, has meant that FSX absolutely will crash out with a good deal of the shiny new stuff installed in it. But in many cases, you find that some of the fancy P3D-compatible stuff is also quite often FSX compatible (or vice versa), so that can at least make any sort of transition between those two platforms a bit less of a wrench, at least in some cases, since things you buy or already own are compatible with the later sim in spite of the leap from 32 bit to 64 bit. Where this is not the case, you should look out for developers who offer discounts for those who buy more than one version of a product for such sims. A good example of that is Flight 1 with the iFly 737 and 747, both of which enjoy a decent discount for such an eventuality.

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Thanks for the replies everyone definitely appreciate it.  In FSX I was flying a lot of runs with the PMDG 737 but later transitioned to a lot of GA stuff with smaller planes.  I like both though.  I'd be ok with having to rebuy a plane or two.  The scenery thing I should be ok because I'm running OrbX stuff.  I'm fine with sticking with FSX:SE as well, I just thought I'd see if it had finally been "replaced" by something that's not 13+ years old 🙂  I appreciate this thread not turning into a nasty debate of sim vs sim or cpu vs cpu as well by the way.  I posted a similar question at OrbX and they decided to lock then delete it and I saw the moderator reply before it disappeared complaining that I was going to cause  nasty debate.  That's not my intention at all, and with reactions like that from vendors I used to love, I may just not bother coming back to simming.

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Also as far as CPU goes I had planned Intel for the reasons I originally mentioned but had gotten a recommendation the other day to maybe wait for the new AMD chips to see how they do. I'm not opposed to running them I actually started out my building days with them. I'm just itching to upgrade. I had planned to do so last year but spent my money on replacing 15 year old worn surround sound stuff first. I'm not sure if I want to wait till July to see what happens. I'm having issues now where I might need to reinstall Windows to clear out some issues and I'd rather not have to reinstall again in a few months. Would rather just do it on new hardware. I guess I could do the reinstall though and then hold of on reinstalling FSX and all my add-ons until I build the new system.  That's really the most painful part of a Windows install for me now. 

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With your hardware, you should be able to run P3DV4.4. quite nicely..

If you are serious about flightsimming, install P3DV4.4. and equip it with your Orbx scenery at no cost..

Do not uninstall FSX, run them side by side.. that is what I did...

In my case, FSX is getting no use and P3D is getting the new airplanes.

No more popping autogen :smile:

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It always makes me laugh whenever people say about hardware: 'Ooh you should wait for the new Sexbomz XS7000 CPU which is coming out next month' or whatever. By the time you've waited for that they'll be advocating you wait for the one after it and if you wait again, you'll never end up with anything.

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Just now, Bert Pieke said:

With your hardware, you should be able to run P3DV4.4. quite nicely..

If you are serious about flightsimming, install P3DV4.4. and equip it with your Orbx scenery at no cost..

Do not uninstall FSX, run them side by side.. that is what I did...

In my case, FSX is getting no use and P3D is getting the new airplanes.

No more popping autogen :smile:

Thanks. I could give that a shot for sure while I work on the new build. I'm building a new system either way because other games I'm starting to hit walls with recommendations being close or past what I'm running like division 2 recommends a 6700 for 60fps at 1440 which is the resolution I run at now. I'm getting by on the overclocked 4790k but an upgrade would be nice. 

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2 minutes ago, Chock said:

It always makes me laugh whenever people say about hardware: 'Ooh you should wait for the new Sexbomz XS7000 CPU which is coming out next month' or whatever. By the time you've waited for that they'll be advocating you wait for the one after it and if you wait again, you'll never end up with anything.

Lol I'm guilty of doing that to myself. I don't need others to do it for me. I saw ice lake was coming later in the year and was like oh I should wait but realized no I shouldn't.  The new AMD stuff isn't that far off though vs ice lake for example. 

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12 minutes ago, flyinion said:

 I'm getting by on the overclocked 4790k but an upgrade would be nice. 

Of course an upgrade would be nice.. it always is.. :wink:

What I am telling you is that you have enough to run P3DV4.4.

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1 hour ago, Bert Pieke said:

Of course an upgrade would be nice.. it always is.. :wink:

What I am telling you is that you have enough to run P3DV4.4.

Thanks, I'll be sure to check it out.  It's been on my list for a while, but earlier versions add-on support was much less for various reasons and it being new etc so I just never picked it up.  I do have one question.  I'm going to assume if I want to use my PDMG stuff it requires a straight up separate purchase correct?  I know OrbX it's you buy it you can run it on whatever.  

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Folks, let's stay on topic and not bash each other's Sim.  I have just removed one post and hope no more need to be.

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7 hours ago, flyinion said:

I'm going to assume if I want to use my PDMG stuff it requires a straight up separate purchase correct? 

Correct. 

Concerning your initial question: don't ask yourself what sim everyone is using but ask yourself which sims suits your needs the most. 😉 After reading this topic I think going for P3D would be a clever move for you, specially because you seem to like that PMDG plane. But things have changed considerably compared to some 4 years ago...! First of all XP has become a lot more popular since the release of v11, secondly there is an interesting new sim, Aerofly FS2 (though probably not of interest to you), and third: unlike before hardware has a longer life span when it comes to flight sims. I also have a 4 year old PC but I don't really feel the need to get a new one. Well, also because I upgraded it with an GTX 1080 LOL but still, the CPU and the RAM etc. is working just fine with the current sims. In the past going from a 4 year old top off the line PC to a new top off the line one meant a huge difference: that has changed a bit, also because newer sims seem to use the hardware better. 

But well, since you also are reaching a limit with other games building a new PC will of course help you but don't expect miracles: keep your expectations low. 😉 

I myself have only been flying in Aerofly FS 2 lately because of its superb performance and its simplicity (when it comes to installing and maintaining it but also when it comes to flying): it simply suits my current needs perfectly. It is a very limited som though. Which is why I said you should go for the sim that suits your needs the most. All current sims are great and have their pro's and con's: none of them is perfect and everyone would like to see all sims combined into one super sim but well, that won't happen. 😉 

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2 hours ago, J van E said:

Correct. 

Concerning your initial question: don't ask yourself what sim everyone is using but ask yourself which sims suits your needs the most. 😉 After reading this topic I think going for P3D would be a clever move for you, specially because you seem to like that PMDG plane. But things have changed considerably compared to some 4 years ago...! First of all XP has become a lot more popular since the release of v11, secondly there is an interesting new sim, Aerofly FS2 (though probably not of interest to you), and third: unlike before hardware has a longer life span when it comes to flight sims. I also have a 4 year old PC but I don't really feel the need to get a new one. Well, also because I upgraded it with an GTX 1080 LOL but still, the CPU and the RAM etc. is working just fine with the current sims. In the past going from a 4 year old top off the line PC to a new top off the line one meant a huge difference: that has changed a bit, also because newer sims seem to use the hardware better. 

But well, since you also are reaching a limit with other games building a new PC will of course help you but don't expect miracles: keep your expectations low. 😉 

 

Thanks for the reply!  Yeah I should definitely see if XP has a demo available then.  I did play with the version 9 demo a few years ago when they were really close to putting out version 10 but it just wasn't what I was after exactly so I didn't pick up the full version.  Good to know about the hardware with the newer sims.  On my current system 4790K with all cores at 4.4Ghz under load and a 1070 SC (superclocked) from EVGA I still get some pretty low FPS in FSX:SE with OrbX scenery and the PMDG type aircraft in the dense city type areas.  Since I like eye candy I don't like have to turn down scenery to "brown blob" levels just to fly that stuff :)  Not that I do, but I definitely have it dialed in to the minimum usable FPS. 

 

I'm guessing the newer hardware really isn't going to help that much still due to various reasons, though I'm sure it will help some.  Part of it now is I'm on a 1440 resolution vs 1080 and it's been a noticeable jump in performance hit in FSX:SE.  I think I'll just look into both sims and see what will work.  I'm not tied to PMDG or anything, I only have one plane from them and I know people are making stuff for XP as well. 

 

Also, I'm not actually getting rid of my old hardware.  I'm actually keeping it as a second system this time for an as yet undetermined use.  So I suppose it could even be repurposed down the road for one or more sims.  It won't be immediate because I'm going to steal the video card from it for the new system and I doubt the sims are going to be happy about using the Intel integrated graphics on a 4000 series Haswell chip lol.

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3 hours ago, charliearon said:

Folks, let's stay on topic and not bash each other's Sim.  I have just removed one post and hope no more need to be.

Yes please guys.  I didn't create this thread to start a flame war.  Just trying to get some direction on what's popular now and potentially confirming my hardware choices.

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For kicks I measured my fps in Xplane11, over photoreal scenery, in a copter because I had never really paid attention before.  They averaged 42 fps in spot and internal views on my rig, and that is with full settings, and I believe that is what one should expect with my specs, so a newbie can extrapolate from there.

More important than fps is fluidity, and both Xplane11 and P3D4.4 are fluid sims, more so than FSX was on my old system, Xplane11 and P3D4.4 are fluid like FS9, which I helped beta way back in the day and I wrote a freeware add-on called Soft Horizons with the back then secret blessings from Microsoft I am now revealing, Microsoft (I cannot remember the name of the team member, the email is long gone) gave me a good understanding of how to change the environment mapping to my tastes knowing that Soft Horizons would probably stimulate interest in the sim, so I slaved at it over the course of a day using some tools including Microsoft Paint and another freeware tool I cannot recall, and I had the horizons that made FS9 look homey to me.

It was the most popular thing I ever did here, after Landclass Assistant which still works for P3DV4, and my FAR 103 trike which still works for P3DV4.

In a childish rage I once asked for these things to be pulled from Avsim.  Too much Sake.  I recovered and left my add-ons here and stayed here.  I admit I have problems due to PTSD, having lost a brother to a gunshot wound some years ago, just before my mother passed on, both were very close.  Add to that my recently being run over by a Chevy Silverado and you have one cuckoo simmer, lol

Seriously though, my point is whatever sim the original poster chooses, as long as modern computer equipment is involved, will work wonderfully.  I use two sims because of my suite of add-ons, I am neither a P3D or Xplane geek, just a flight sim geek and I would not have it any other way, because it helped me learn to fly in real life just as they said it could.  I do not fly as often as I would like, and when I fly I always rent a CFI, simply because in real life I do not like to fly alone because there is no moment to share with someone, and CFI's love sharing flights with flight enthusiasts.

John

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Posted (edited)

Well, as far as the hardware goes, after learning a little more about the possible specs/etc. of the new upcoming Ryzen stuff I've decided to suck it up and wait and see there.  In the mean time I'm probably going to reinstall windows on my current rig and maybe test drive XP 11 demo and if money allows since it's not cheap, pick up Prepar3d.

Edited by flyinion

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None of the present day flight sims exhibit any significant performance advantage despite what is being stated in this thread. Run them out of the box (no add-ons) with a high end computer that is a couple of years old or less and performance will be impressive. They will all run okay on a 4 or 5 year old mid-range PC, with reduced settings. But buyer beware, load the sim up at 4K resolution with a complex aircraft, a ton of detailed scenery, a weather add-on, AI traffic, an ATC add-on and all will barely creep along at 30 fps, even on a high end, brand new computer. And don't even think of doing that on any computer that's based on legacy hardware as you may be disappointed even at low image quality settings.

I suspect that the reason that some people seem to believe that one flight sim has a performance advantage over another is they have never tried to run various sims fully loaded with add-ons as I have described above.

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8 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

None of the present day flight sims exhibit any significant performance advantage despite what is being stated in this thread. Run them out of the box (no add-ons) with a high end computer that is a couple of years old or less and performance will be impressive. They will all run okay on a 4 or 5 year old mid-range PC, with reduced settings. But buyer beware, load the sim up at 4K resolution with a complex aircraft, a ton of detailed scenery, a weather add-on, AI traffic, an ATC add-on and all will barely creep along at 30 fps, even on a high end, brand new computer. And don't even think of doing that on any computer that's based on legacy hardware as you may be disappointed even at low image quality settings.

I suspect that the reason that some people seem to believe that one flight sim has a performance advantage over another is they have never tried to run various sims fully loaded with add-ons as I have described above.

I disagree, to some extent.  P3DV4.4 and Xplane11 do not require Crays to run.  And 30 fps is nothing to whine about, although in Xplane11 with everything maxed I get around 43-44 fps in the most complex aircraft.  In P3DV4.4 my fps even exceeds that but as you do say, AI can choke it, but it could also choke FSX.  In FS9 AI ran fine.  I would rather have the outstanding graphics that the two sims offer today vs. FSX or FS9 or their other competitors.  And both sims support much higher res photoreal scenery which used to cause OOM errors in FSX and stutters galore.  Granted my system is faster but it is still slower than a new system purchased today, which many buyers are doing before they take the P3D plunge. 

One thing that also works is disabling the default AI in P3D for lower res AI, but I can slide by with AI at about 50 pct and I find that perfectly alright.  I still have landed with AI on SFO's parallel runway, for example, which I find quite real.  In real life one does not see the skies saturated with jets, on every flight I have ever taken in the flight levels I see jets going at angles to my path, or opposite, or parallel with me once in a blue moon in real life.  In GA flight the same is true, what I do see however is static ground aircraft of which there are not enough of in P3D but there are plenty in Xplane11 and they do not hobble performance.

I am not sure what the obsession is with "faster than 30 fps" for me it is fluidity, stutter free flight that I enjoy.  I also do not have to run at 4K, in real life (just look at high def youtube videos) the ground is never that sharp except at low altitude, and my photoreal scenery is fine for conveying that.  Autogen in P3D and Xplane11 work well.

Me, I encourage people to upgrade if they have specs like or better than mine, holding on to an older system is OK if one is content with FSX.  Complex add-ons do not choke my sims, even those with heavy systems, but I seldom fly the complex cockpits as it takes the challenge from where I have flown as PIC in real life, Light Sport and Light Aircraft no larger than a C172.

John

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