I was an instructor at Keesler AFB, Air Traffic Control Division, 1989 - 1992.6We had simulations then, on 8-bit processors (ASM), which rocked your simulation world. Multi-player, multi-threaded, multi-processor.Understand this. With the power available in PC's now, it is clear that simulation is on the verge of a new reality. "Real Reality" My thoughts. Yours?bt

Combine that with physics rendering hardware and what I'm sure will be Chemistry rendering hardware too soon, I think interesting times lay ahead...When the scientific world is talking about 'cloaking' technology to bend light and radar around an object to render it invisible etc some interesting days lay ahead...I saw one thing on msnbc.com that showed a live 3d world, where you could see cars and people moving on the street in real time and live, and you cold fly through the scene...Wish I had the links... I'm just too lazy to look them up right now...

I do not know what "Real Reality" means, but for anyone who flies for real, the only "Real Reality" there will ever be will only be available via your local, "real" airport. No offense to the MS team intended.Cars and people on the street mean relatively little in the real world of aviation, where we often have much else on our minds and other things to look at.I was flying down the Hudson River yesterday, and did not notice a single moving person or car.Why? My attention needed to be elsewhere, as with all the helos doing sight seeing flights on Memorial Day.Yeah, I guess I could fly through a "scene" in real life with moving cars and people, but how long I would have my license after doing that is another story.Yeah, I often look down at times to see where I would land if the engine failed, and often look at a highway, with moving traffic on it, as a potential landing spot, BUT, to me, the real thing is SO much more than the stuff we usually do not pay that much attention to in real life.Or to put it bluntly, and why FS will never be "Real Reality":Yesterday I took a friend flying for the first time in a light plane, my Piper Dakota. He has an interest in learning to fly, and as a successful attorney, money is no object.He had a great time, and as we flew down the Hudson, his 6-year old son was standing on the terrace of his condo watching for us. I rocked the wings as we passed each time, even though we could not see him. We knew he would be there (he later said he saw us "wave" the wings).Tonight I met my friend at a restaurant that we frequent, and he commented to our other friends there about how much he enjoyed the flying yesterday.One thing he said to our other friends stood out in my mind, and it is something I will never forget, but also knew when I took him flying:"Look, I'm an only parent and sole provider for my 6-year old son. I trusted Lou with my life, and if I didn't trust him, I would have never flown with him".Yeah, I know, if you can fly FS you can do it for real, whatever....In the real world "reality" is so much different. One bad screw-up on my part yesterday and, trust me, his 6-year old son would be without a father.You can have all the moving cars, trains, people, smoke, whatever, but it will never be real until your "neck" is really on the line, and you are truly responsible for the lives of others. That's the real deal, and it is something you cannot truly simulate.Not to mention paying the real sort of prices we pay to fly for real!Imagine if you took the FS Cessna 172 up for a flight and when you got back had to pay a bill for $100. Now, that's reality.What if you crashed that virtual Cessna really badly, and as a result you could never again use FS?That's reality.FS is great. I love it, but let's keep it in perspective, shall we?"Real Reality". Please, give me a break, no offense intended.There will only be one "Real Reality", and it will NEVER be available via a PC or any similar device. The best there will be on such is a good simulation, and we have that already with FS9, and it will get better with FSX, but it will never be "Real Reality", make no mistake about that.Regards,http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...R_FORUM_LOU.jpg

Lou, that was an interesting read, thanks for that.The good thing about simulation software/hardware is that it enables developers to test new hardware before production e.t.c that would otherwise be too time consuming/cost effective to do so in the real world and that is where the simulation software is better than the "real world".Other examples are simulating forces impacted on aircraft, metal fatigue simulations and system designs.These are also better than being in the 'real world' waiting for the wing to fall off due to metal fatigue so you can gather the scrap metal and perform analysis.(Yes, am being overly blunt/simplified here)In that way, "Real Reality" is feasible.

Hey Lou,I hate to tell ya, the cars are the first thing I look at when I'm flying because.....I'm flying and they're not...haha. When it's rush hour and I lift off at downtown I often just can't believe I'm in the air moving and they're stuck...lol.I'm not kidding either, I just love it!

Hi Lou...funny thing is we are on the same page.Simulation means simulation. It's not the real thing. On the other hand, if you can get the "gist" of the original post, you'll agree that PC simulation is on the step of a new reality."Real Reality", I say again. And while we're on the subject Lou, why don't you give me a break. Keeping it in perspective, and of course...no offence intended.Cheers,bt

"Cars and people on the street mean relatively little in the real world of aviation, where we often have much else on our minds and other things to look at.I was flying down the Hudson River yesterday, and did not notice a single moving person or car."However, in "Real Reality", while you might not take notice of the traffic (though many do) you would absolutely notice their distinct absence were they not there!Right now, that's essentially where we are with FS - the absence of vehicles. We'll see what happens with X.Once we get to the point where road traffic is everywhere it should be, and people have machines capable of taking advantage of that, we will stop noticing it as well... until it's turned off... ;)2

Going down the Hudson I bet you saw lots of boats/helicopters though.....maybe even Shamu?As far as car traffic-I have major highways running along side my regular airports-so car traffic does add quite a bit to my reality.Like Jeff-I always give a look down and feel sorry for all those stuck in traffic jams below (and like to compare my relative speed)-and also even though busy a thought always crosses my mind as I come in to land and fly over a row of moving cars that there is probably some aviation freak looking up going-look at that cool plane!http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

That's what I like about low and slow, you can just hover around like a hawk and see everything. :-) I think I have more fun in my local area just flying between MCI and MKC than anywhere else....hehe.

Funny how IRL pilots train in simulators first before being let loose on the real jets.... hmm, of course unless you are an RAAF 707 pilot in which case feel free to bounce a 707 down the runway at Amberley anytime lol.... Ah those were the days... Did want to be near the flightline when the students were doing circuits in the 707...

Lou,While I understand what you mean, and in the situation you described wouldn't have paid much attention to ground traffic, either, there have been times when I focused a lot of attention on ground traffic. Low cruise in the Super Cub along I-25 north of Denver with a headwind asks me to look down to see if cars on that 75mph road are traveling faster than I am. A lazy evening cruise in the Cub with my youngest son prompted us to notice headlights, taillights, and flashing lights (someone was pulled over). All in all, quite pretty.So with little traffic in the air and outside of class A/B/C/D airspace, attention can often be spared for some of the things that make flying more fun.Larry N.

I don't see FS changing unless they figure out how to render the whole world without choking a nasa computer. other games get by this by using scripts, while FS generally does everything real time. it computes things on the go which is what really kills it.

I'm thinking that an animated logging camp or two, and some snowmobiles would be nice! :D L.Adamson

We agree with Lou on this one...it ain't real until it's YOUR posterior hanging up there at altitude! THEN it feels REAL because it IS REAL! Look Ma, no reset button!:-lol :-lol

Very good point made Andrew.Dave