ols500

30fps but still blurry panning (video)

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Hi I cannot solve this issue... It looks as if its some kind of motion blur! Very annoying. Any ideas?

 

Heres a video: 

 

BenQ 60hz GW2270 monitor

Vsync, FPS unlimited

No external lock.

 

Thanks, Ollie.

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Personally not seeing any blur, so I suspect that's a local issue that can't be recorded. You're saying 30FPS in the title, yet your overlay is reporting less than that, barely holding 24, which could create a very unpleasant and unsteady image. Plus, some monitors under certain conditions can be prone to creating a motion blur effect due to low refresh rates, high image latency etc. you could possibly also have settings enabled on the monitor itself that makes it worse, like an overdrive setting.

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1 minute ago, Sethos1988 said:

like an overdrive setting.

Do you mean "AMA"?

 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, ols500 said:

Do you mean "AMA"?

Possibly. Each manufacturer has their own names for these functions. I assume that's BenQ's name for it.

Edited by Sethos1988
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AMA has

Off

High

Premium

 

However, I see no difference between them.

10 minutes ago, Sethos1988 said:

You're saying 30FPS in the title, yet your overlay is reporting less than that, barely holding 24, which could create a very unpleasant and unsteady image

Its bizzare. I lower the settings and get the same FPS, CPU and GPU usage do not change. You would think they would increase with higher settings, but they don't. They stay at around 50% CPU and 40% GPU.

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Just now, ols500 said:

AMA has

Off

High

Premium

 

However, I see no difference between them.

Its bizzare. I lower the settings and get the same FPS, CPU and GPU usage do not change. You would think they would increase with higher settings, but they don't. They stay at around 50% CPU and 40% GPU.

Yeah, it was just a possibility. Like for example, you see someone here in the comments, mention that AMA can introduce a lot of ghosting, which could easily be perceived as a sort-of motion blurring effect: https://old.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/5l0v3i/do_i_need_to_have_ama_on_to_get_1ms/

Other than that, someone else would have to chime in on the performance issue, as that seems like a peculiar issue indeed.

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Ok thanks for help anyway. Let's see who else replies 😄

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I don't see anything abnormal in your vid, but then again maybe I am not seeing clearly...I just worked 11 hours.  It's also Youtube, maybe the capturing didn't translate the blur well.

Since you refresh at 60 hz, are you using RTSS Scanline x/2 or whatever the 60hz guys are using these days?  Supposedly it is presently the hot ticket to smoothness for 60 hz users.   If you are not -- perhaps that is the problem. 

You are not able to maintain 60 fps in that situation (none of us could), and THAT is a big problem kemosabe.   In the sim, with your 60 hz refresh rate, you would have to be able to maintain 60 fps for nearly-complete smoothness.   With RTSS, as I understand its Scanline x/2 option, you would only have to maintain 30 fps in that same scenario, to get smoothness -- a lot easier than maintaining 60 fps.  RTSS = RivaTuner Statistics Server.

I'm sure someone else will come along and add further wisdom.  I don't personally use RTSS as I refresh at 30 hz, so I'm not the most qualified person to comment on it.  Hope that at least gives you another angle though.

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I watched your video in full screen, and I think I know what you're experiencing. It seems like the image simply can't keep up with the speed of the panning. I'm seeing the same thing in my setup. My frames are locked at 30 by using vsync on a 30Hz monitor.

I've tried every possible setting I could think of both on my computer and the monitor and haven't been able to get rid of that effect. I came to the conclusion that either my monitor is too cheap to handle that motion or that 30fps is simply too slow to keep up. I've kind of gotten used to it anyway, so it doesn't bother me all that much anymore. I wish I had a solution for you.

 

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8 minutes ago, wsmeier said:

I watched your video in full screen, and I think I know what you're experiencing. It seems like the image simply can't keep up with the speed of the panning. I'm seeing the same thing in my setup. My frames are locked at 30 by using vsync on a 30Hz monitor.

I've tried every possible setting I could think of both on my computer and the monitor and haven't been able to get rid of that effect. I came to the conclusion that either my monitor is too cheap to handle that motion or that 30fps is simply too slow to keep up. I've kind of gotten used to it anyway, so it doesn't bother me all that much anymore. I wish I had a solution for you.

 

Same thing for me, I think my monitor just isn’t good enough to make it clear panning, Like you I've also gotten use to it, but to the OP, could always be worse, remember when virtual cockpits weren’t even a thing and all we had were 2D flight decks in flight simulation lol...

hopefully someone has a solution! 

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5 hours ago, flyinpilot212121 said:

Same thing for me, I think my monitor just isn’t good enough to make it clear panning

Just an observation, but if you can see this effect in a video it can't be anything to do with your monitor.

I can't see anything wrong with this video, but I suspect it's just that fast panning reveals the quantization of the image. Presumably this is why fast panning in films was traditionally frowned upon. I expect you can calculate the relationship between frame rate and noticeable quantization quite easily if you think it through.

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Hi I'm at the gliding club right now so I cannot test anything but here is my thoughts:

I have RTSS and tried 2x scan line with 30fps locked in P3D. Makes it even worse. I have overdrive turned to premium on my BENQ monitor which helps a little. To run 30hz you need a 4K monitor, which in turn requires a more powerful GPU than my 1060. On my ground at EGKK I get 24fps for example... Why is my CPU usage so low? Shouldn't the CPU work harder to push out more FPS?

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5 hours ago, MarkDH said:

 

Just an observation, but if you can see this effect in a video it can't be anything to do with your monitor.

I can't see anything wrong with this video

That’s odd cause I can clearly see what the OP is describing.. Having said that I think you explained it well on what is actually happening.

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2 hours ago, ols500 said:

I have RTSS and tried 2x scan line with 30fps locked in P3D. Makes it even worse. I have overdrive turned to premium on my BENQ monitor which helps a little. To run 30hz you need a 4K monitor, which in turn requires a more powerful GPU than my 1060. On my ground at EGKK I get 24fps for example... Why is my CPU usage so low? Shouldn't the CPU work harder to push out more FPS?

It sounds like you are expecting magic. You are panning the view so fast that features of the VC in the middle foreground are moving across the screen by about 45cm in less than a second. Your frame counter shows you are achieving about 22fps, which means that this distance must be traversed in about 17 frames. Hence on average each frame will be drawn about 3cm to the left or right of the previous one. There is no interpolation, so you're going to see a strobe effect, which I assume this is what you are calling 'blurring'. If you were maintaining 60fps your frames would be, on average, 1cm apart and it would look a whole lot smoother. (Incidentally, this is a good counter to the frequent assertion that frame rate is somehow irrelevant.)

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I have to admit I did feel I was lied to by some people on the avsim community I will not mention names, but 

42 minutes ago, MarkDH said:

frame rate is somehow irrelevant.)

This is what people said... it's not about fps it's about smoothness. word not allowed I say! You cannot run smooth at 20fps... 

 

So is there anything I could do to improve the strobe effect?

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26 minutes ago, ols500 said:

So is there anything I could do to improve the strobe effect?

Aside from building a computer than can sustain a higher frame rate, I guess you just have to pan more slowly. There are programs that will change the views for you, such as EZCA and Chase Plane, so these would give more consistent results. TrackIR has a smoothing algorithm you can tweak. More simply, I think you can adjust the pan rate when using the hat switch to change the view, so you could try turning it down.

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Ok, I do use chaseplane, not sure if you do, but if you do would I do pan more slowly?

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5 hours ago, flyinpilot212121 said:

That’s odd cause I can clearly see what the OP is describing.. Having said that I think you explained it well on what is actually happening.

Thanks, glad someone can see it and its not just me 😄 You have a similar system, but do you run 60hz?

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35 minutes ago, ols500 said:

Ok, I do use chaseplane, not sure if you do, but if you do would I do pan more slowly?

Sorry, I don't. I have EZCA and it has an option for smooth transitions between views. I'm pretty sure you can also control the time it will take to complete the switch.

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4 minutes ago, MarkDH said:

I'm pretty sure you can also control the time it will take to complete the switch.

Yes, you can do that in chaseplane. smooth transitions is on as well. Do you have a 30/60hz monitor?

Heres another video, hopefully its more clear and I have panned more slowly: 

 

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48 minutes ago, ols500 said:

Heres another video, hopefully its more clear and I have panned more slowly: 

Yes, I can see it is indistinct while the view is in motion. The same happens if you drag a window (an Explorer window, for example) around the WIndows desktop - it only stays sharp if you drag it really, really slowly. I don't know what can be done about this. In fact I see the same effect on my iPad Pro, which runs the display at 120Hz.

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3 minutes ago, MarkDH said:

The same happens if you drag a window (an Explorer window, for example)

Yes. How can I increase my FPS? A better CPU or GPU? In a few weeks, I'm getting a professional to delid my i5 8600K and install a Kraken X62 AIO, so I can overclock my CPU to 5 or 5.1Ghz.

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8 hours ago, MarkDH said:

It sounds like you are expecting magic. You are panning the view so fast that features of the VC in the middle foreground are moving across the screen by about 45cm in less than a second. Your frame counter shows you are achieving about 22fps, which means that this distance must be traversed in about 17 frames. Hence on average each frame will be drawn about 3cm to the left or right of the previous one. There is no interpolation, so you're going to see a strobe effect, which I assume this is what you are calling 'blurring'. If you were maintaining 60fps your frames would be, on average, 1cm apart and it would look a whole lot smoother. (Incidentally, this is a good counter to the frequent assertion that frame rate is somehow irrelevant.)

That’s a perfect explanation and would think this is exactly what is happening.

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Ok yes I agree with that. What can I do to improve it in terms of hardware upgrades? 

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