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captflyby

How to Upgrade rpxGTN nav data

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I have a subscription to Navigraph, that works with xplane, ATC2Pilot, Active Sky X, and some more.

I have had to stop using my rpxGTN because the flight plans I create on ATC2Pilot using the latest Navigraph data, create way points, intersections, or other items in the flight plan, that will not then load into the rpxGTN, which I am theorizing is because the rpxGTN database is not up to date.

If it uses the Garmin Trainer's database, all bets are off.  I fly a bird with a G1000 and the Garmin cards, the real ones, ARE VERY EXPENSIVE for all individuals not blessed with wealth.

If I can rename my x-plane navigraph files and put them into the rpxGTN then ok, but if not, I guess my rpxGTN goes to the storage locker.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

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If you have access to the real Garmin units, you can copy your databases to the Trainer.

If not, just browse through these support forums and you will find lots of discussions on this topic.. :wink:

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Hi,

you may want to start reading the recommended posts in this discussion indeed:

 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, captflyby said:

I have had to stop using my rpxGTN because the flight plans I create on ATC2Pilot using the latest Navigraph data, create way points, intersections, or other items in the flight plan, that will not then load into the rpxGTN, which I am theorizing is because the rpxGTN database is not up to date.

Please explain what you are attempting to do in more detail.  Example, if you are attempting to import flight plans and are experiencing locked flight plans or flight plans with locked waypoints it may not be the database.  It may be the Garmin Trainer and the way it applies rules during the import process.  It is common for this to happen when the database contains multiple waypoints that share the same name, which is common if using a worldwide nav database.  The import rules prohibit the trainer from choosing which waypoint for you.  So you must edit the imported flight plan manually to choose.  BUNKA intersection, for example, is an intersection in the U.S. state of Indiana, but is also the name of an intersection in the African country of Ivory Coast.  I have encountered numerous of these duplicate waypoints.

 

Duplicate%20Waypoint.jpg

Edited by fppilot
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Posted (edited)

I would appear that the lack of ability to update the nav data base for either the F1 or RXP product makes both of them less that usable if one is interested in using current nav data.  I own the F1 product but I have uninstalled it and consider it's cost a learning lesson. 

If a developer would build a workable replacement that uses currently available nav data, I'd buy it.  But until then, I'll use other means to control my flights.

 

Jim Driskell

Edited by RXP

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

If you have access to the real Garmin units, you can copy your databases to the Trainer.

If not, just browse through these support forums and you will find lots of discussions on this topic.. :wink:

That would be a pirated database. They come on small sim cards and have prioritized encoding on them.  I would have no way, even if I were inclined, to know how to get the files off it and onto the sim.  I'm afraid that is above my pay grade.

Edited by captflyby

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, fppilot said:

Please explain what you are attempting to do in more detail.  Example, if you are attempting to import flight plans and are experiencing locked flight plans or flight plans with locked waypoints it may not be the database.  It may be the Garmin Trainer and the way it applies rules during the import process.  It is common for this to happen when the database contains multiple waypoints that share the same name, which is common if using a worldwide nav database.  The import rules prohibit the trainer from choosing which waypoint for you.  So you must edit the imported flight plan manually to choose.  BUNKA intersection, for example, is an intersection in the U.S. state of Indiana, but is also the name of an intersection in the African country of Ivory Coast.  I have encountered numerous of these duplicate waypoints.

 

Duplicate%20Waypoint.jpg

Ok I will try to explain the process.

I am flying in the Carenado Premier 1A.

I have an ATC program that also can generate a flight plan (this may be my problem).

Pilot2ATC. (Can't seem to see how to attach a pic).

Anyway this program exports the flight plan to the x-plane for the fms and to the rxpGTN, both in their needed formats.

The fms seems to work fine. I usually disable the rxpGTN plugin, so I can use both fms.

The rpxGTN sometimes will accept the file when imported, sometimes it will accept but says some files it didn't recognize were taken off, and sometimes just say that the attempt to import failed - with no explanation.

Lately the latter has been the rule so much, that I stopped using it.

The x-plane & pilot2atc both have the 1906 navigraph database, located correctly in their programs.

I don't know if it is my plan generator, if it is the rpxGTN different (outdated) database, or the fact I like to fly a lot outside the USA.

I also, never use the rxpGTN in the "master device" setting.  1. because I don't know what it is or is supposed to do, 2. because another on this forum told me it makes the plane to strange things (indeed some anomalies went away when I stopped using it as master device).

If this sounds confusing, its because it is indeed confusing.

I appreciate the comments, and suggestions.

 

 

 

Edited by captflyby

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15 minutes ago, captflyby said:

That would be a pirated database. They come on small sim cards and have prioritized encoding on them.  I would have no way, even if I were inclined, to know how to get the files off it and onto the sim.  I'm afraid that is above my pay grade.

Lots of real world aircraft owners copy their navdata into their sim for IFR training.. as a legitimate owner that should be perfectly above board.

As for handing around copies of expired navdata.. that is less clear, but expired paper charts have been handed around for as long as anyone can remember... As long as there is no commercial value attached, I can certainly live with it..

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

Lots of real world aircraft owners copy their navdata into their sim for IFR training.. as a legitimate owner that should be perfectly above board.

As for handing around copies of expired navdata.. that is less clear, but expired paper charts have been handed around for as long as anyone can remember... As long as there is no commercial value attached, I can certainly live with it..

Sorry I didn't mean to make it sound nefarious.  I do not own the data.  It is paid for by the USAF who owns the aircraft. It is unclear as to whether I could copy the data, but even if I was permitted, I do not believe I could do it.

It would be much easier for me to figure out how to take my navigraph files, which I do own, and transform them into a format acceptable by the Garmin trainer.  But again, that is above my pay grade.

Edited by captflyby

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Posted (edited)

Feb 13, 2018 posted by danb, owner of real Garmin gtn 750 and software...per Garmin...cannot update the trainer database.  Since the trainer was for reference only, no software install/update feature was added to the program, and no future plans to do it.

So if you have a garmin product for x-plane that utilizes the garmin trainer, you database will not match to x-plane.  Old flight plan data only.

Edited by captflyby

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, captflyby said:

Feb 13, 2018 posted by danb, owner of real Garmin gtn 750 and software...per Garmin...cannot update the trainer database.  Since the trainer was for reference only, no software install/update feature was added to the program, and no future plans to do it.

So if you have a garmin product for x-plane that utilizes the garmin trainer, you database will not match to x-plane.  Old flight plan data only.

That is not the whole story, you can replace the navdata in the Trainer by hand.

Location:

C:\ProgramData\Garmin\Trainers\Databases

File name: nav_db2.bin for Worldwide

                 nav_db2_grm.bin for U.S. data

Send me a PM with your email address if you need help with this..

Edited by Bert Pieke

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18 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

but expired paper charts have been handed around for as long as anyone can remember.

I lived off of these for over 20 years. 

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18 hours ago, captflyby said:

The rpxGTN sometimes will accept the file when imported, sometimes it will accept but says some files it didn't recognize were taken off, and sometimes just say that the attempt to import failed - with no explanation.

Lately the latter has been the rule so much, that I stopped using it.

I stopped also.  But what I stopped was attempting to import complex flight plans.  Plans such as those containing Departures, Arrivals, and many waypoints.  I found it much quicker, easier, and more effective to enter them into the GTN itself manually. 

Like I said earlier, the Garmin Trainer rules are shaped for a good reason. And it is not only because of names with duplicates in the database.  Janesville.Seven arrival into KORD soon becomes Janesville.Eight.  Same thing happens with departure name sequences.  It's not only the Trainer database that must match, but the flight planner's database must also match.

For a high altitude flight from KLAX to KORD, taking a brief look at the online chart on Skyvector, you can see that the vast majority of the route can be planned on airway J64, picking J64 up at PDZ (Paradise) or CIVET, and exiting at BDF (Bradford, Ill).  Entering that flight plan would take me perhaps 30 seconds, using the Load Airway feature of the GTN flight plan page.  The inserting Departure and Arrivals is just as easy.

I do from time to time still use the Import feature.  But when I do I keep the flight plan simplified in whatever external flight planner I am using.  Then once imported manuall add aspects like Departure and Arrival.  Very quick and effective.  Once a simplified plan is imported and embellished, simply Store it for future use, understanding that if you update the Trainer database, a previously stored plan may contain problems when departure, arrival, or waypoint names change.

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18 hours ago, captflyby said:

I also, never use the rxpGTN in the "master device" setting.  1. because I don't know what it is or is supposed to do, 2. because another on this forum told me it makes the plane to strange things (indeed some anomalies went away when I stopped using it as master device).

I encourage you to take time to learn the product before abandoning it!  There has been an update, perhaps two, where changes in related products were difficult to overcome.  RXP has over the past two or three years been quick to react with additional updates. I cannot name another developer who so continuously keeps their current product line updated like this.

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On 5/28/2019 at 4:53 PM, Bert Pieke said:

That is not the whole story, you can replace the navdata in the Trainer by hand.

Location:

C:\ProgramData\Garmin\Trainers\Databases

File name: nav_db2.bin for Worldwide

                 nav_db2_grm.bin for U.S. data

Send me a PM with your email address if you need help with this..

This is encouraging, as I had been informed that the trainer database could not be updated. 

I certainly don't mind updating it by hand.  I have 3 other programs that also have to be updated to the latest navigraph cycle anyway.

I will attempt this and report back.  May need your help with the manual update. 

Thank you for this offer.  Will let you know.

I only really had 2 problems with the rxpGTN and it now appears a manual update process may solve one of them.

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On 5/29/2019 at 9:36 AM, fppilot said:

I encourage you to take time to learn the product before abandoning it!  There has been an update, perhaps two, where changes in related products were difficult to overcome.  RXP has over the past two or three years been quick to react with additional updates. I cannot name another developer who so continuously keeps their current product line updated like this.

Thanks fp. 

I have noticed that I had to pair off a few way points and other procedures sometimes to get it to import.

I have taken your suggestion and begun to learn the rxpGTN in depth.

My remaining problem with the system is my inability to get it to lock onto a localizer for any ILS approaches. This may be something I am not doing correctly with the rxpGTN, or it may have something to do with the plane I am flying, the new Carenado Premier 1A with Collins Proline 21.

I have notice that the collins switches from FMS(GPS) to VOR2, not VOR1, at least that is what it says on the PFD. This may be the problem.

Again it may be something I am doing, my unfamiliarity withe the rxpGTN or it may be something to do with how the Collins in interacting with the plane.

Not sure.

But your observation stands true.  If I just slow down, take the time to plan, and manually enter my flight plans I can avoid my failure to import problems.  I was just thinking that the problem was due to the disparity of the two databases, the updated one of the mission plan editor and the x-plane itself (which are currently navigraph 1906) and the rxpGTN which in my case is currently 1803.

But good news, Bret informed me a trainer database update was possible if done manually.  So time will tell.

Thanks for the input and I will try your suggestions.

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Bert also has a gtn update for the Carenado Premier..☺️

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4 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

Bert also has a gtn update for the Carenado Premier..☺️

?.. p3d version only, though...

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And to switch to ils mode, try simply switching the gtn from gps mode to vloc mode without switching the hsi..

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Bert,

Got the file. Updated the trainer just fine.

Changed VOR2 to VOR1 in the setup.

Flight planned & flew only the GTN-750.  Did not use the fms at all.

Flight went smoothly, including lock on to ILS and perfect glideslope.

Can't thank you enough.

Richard

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