scottb613

Where's the beef - I mean Traffic ?

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Posted (edited)

Hi Folks,

Question - been flying IFR around Boston and New York - I have the full suite of "AIG" Major US Carriers loaded (100%) - and I have the full suite of "UT" GA Traffic loaded (100%) - I have yet to hear ANY ATC calls to anyone but me - - - I have received traffic alerts - does P2A actually interact with AI Aircraft ? Am I missing a setting ?

Thanks...

Regards,
Scott

Edited by scottb613

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No, P2A does not "interact" with AI Traffic other than to give alerts and attempt to avoid collisions.  

To hear interaction of ATC with other aircraft, P2A uses "ATC Chatter".  The section of the User's Guide titled "Sound Settings" gives the details of the options for setting this up.  Also, for the Controller Folder option, have a look at the pinned thread here:

 

Dave

 

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13 hours ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

"No, P2A does not "interact" with AI Traffic other than to give alerts and attempt to avoid collisions."

 

Hello. Just want to ask, what about in future ? There is two AI traffic plugin´s in development and I mean to X-Plane 11. Just Flights "Traffic Global" and Classic Jet Simulations "World Traffic 3 " The Traffic Global is also available to Prepar3d. So is there any chance, that we could have a interaction and hear what ATC and AI planes are "talking". I don´t mean any complicated stuff, but just like it was in FSX back in 2006 ?

Cheers

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Posted (edited)

Hi Dave,

As mentioned - I'm only home on the weekends - my "trial" has expired and I had four flights with P2A... There are a great many things I do like about P2A - it's certainly a comprehensive and well thought out application... The fact that it handles both VFR and IFR flights is a godsend... The use of verbal communications is far better than any other implementation I've ever seen... Having to use proper ICAO phraseology is great for RW practice... Real taxi instructions... Your fanatical customer support provides a great role model that other companies should aspire to...

Unfortunately - I'm spoiled with RC4 that has both full AI ATC Interaction AND Chatter Files - I don't think that's something I can give up - so at this time I think this is a show stopper for me... While I understand chatter files are available and helpful - I was holding short at a busy airport - with a line of aircraft coming in and not a peep to them destroys the immersion - no amount of generic chatter will make up for that with me... Subconsciously - I know they are just chatter files and don't correspond to any actual aircraft so I still feel like I'm the only plane in the air... 

RC4 also allows me to pick my approach - when I get to my destination (if the winds have changed) and also offers good vectors to final if desired - I didn't get that with my trial flights... I noted another post here where some approach randomization was requested - I concur with that...

I kept getting a transponder code - on every handoff [confused] - took me almost the entire flight to realize that even though my Transponder was set correctly in the aircraft - I also had to set it correctly in the P2A interface - RC4 picks that up from the sim and seriously chastises you with the actual problem...

While flying a pattern at a towered airport - requested "to land" - Tower responded "cleared for the option" - I've never heard that in the RW - they usually respond with what's requested...

Maybe a sound option - when your voice is heard but not recognized ? A subtle little bzzt for feedback - to let the user know he needs to rephrase the request - many times P2A would just remain silent on me...

As stated - this was intended as constructive feedback on an application that has a great deal going for it... Hopefully some of these issues will be addressed in future updates - and if they are - I'll certainly want to give P2A another look... I currently use RC4 with Voice Attack - so while I can't use proper phraseology - I do interact with RC4 using strictly voice commands and seldom need to press a key...

Thanks for the trial Dave - I'll keep poking in on occasion - best of luck...

Regards,
Scott 

Edited by scottb613
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On 8/26/2019 at 12:53 PM, scottb613 said:

RC4 also allows me to pick my approach - when I get to my destination (if the winds have changed) and also offers good vectors to final if desired - I didn't get that with my trial flights... I noted another post here where some approach randomization was requested - I concur with that...

I think that's changed. Were you on an old version?

On 8/26/2019 at 12:53 PM, scottb613 said:

kept getting a transponder code - on every handoff [confused] - took me almost the entire flight to realize that even though my Transponder was set correctly in the aircraft - I also had to set it correctly in the P2A interface - RC4 picks that up from the sim and seriously chastises you with the actual problem...

Odd, it works fine here. I never have to enter my Transponder setting into P2A -- I'd certainly know about that because I'd have to get out of the cockpit to even se the P2A window, let alone reach it!

I agree however that some vocal interaction with AI would be nice. However I don't miss it really as I keep all my flights pretty short and there's enough interaction with ATC needed from me to make it a pretty full load.

Also, with the typical amount of AI I'm getting these days (around 250 around London, using full AIG and my lowest frame rate set to 22 in FSUIPC5's traffic limiter), I think on approach, tower and ground the airwaves would be so busy I wouldn't get timely clearances. I'd rather have more traffic than the interaction if that's the choice.

Pete

 

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On 8/26/2019 at 9:53 PM, scottb613 said:

my "trial" has expired and I had four flights with P2A...

scott

have you tried the vox demo ...... roughly the same "cost" if you are investing in atc + tts voices (as you would with P2A), but then you get an included traffic engine that respects your addon afcads / ai comms / sectors & airport & waypoints by "name" rather than phonetics or not at all / paired flight numbers.

'tis a lot more "real" .... & it's almost good enough not to need support 😉

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Posted (edited)

RE: @Pete Dowson

Hi Pete,

Thanks for your insights - yeah - I'm pretty sure I have the latest RC4 installed - LOL - at least I hope so for as long as I've been running it...

As for the transponder - I was flying the A2A Piper Cherokee at the time - perhaps A2A does something funky with their gauges ? LOL - I needed a slow aircraft while trying to learn the ropes with P2A - it didn't work out as well when I was testing with the FSW Lear 35A...

Yeah - honestly - I was pretty hooked on P2A until I realized the missing AI traffic communications issue - I had even spec'd and planned to buy this little touch screen monitor so I could get P2A out of my main field of view - as I found it distracting if I needed to call it up on my main display... Sounds like you try to do similar with "set it and forget it" - which is the way it should be...

 

RE: @Dave-Pilot2ATC

Hi Dave,

Seems to be some interest in this feature (AI Traffic Communications) - is there any hope for this in future updates or is it beyond the realm of possibilities the way your software is designed ?

 

RE: @vadriver

Hi John,

Thanks for the heads up - yeah - I've been hoping to see ATC at some point start actually directing traffic - perhaps this is beyond the capabilities of what the SDK allows ? So - no - I've only used RC4 and now P2A... I'll take a look at VOX and see if I can find some vids demonstrating its capabilities... 

Regards,
Scott

 

Edited by scottb613

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, scottb613 said:

I'm pretty sure I have the latest RC4 installed - LOL - at least I hope so for as long as I've been running it...

My message was all about P2A, not RC4!

21 minutes ago, scottb613 said:

I had even spec'd and planned to buy this little touch screen monitor so I could get P2A out of my main field of view - as I found it distracting if I needed to call it up on my main display... Sounds like you try to do similar with "set it and forget it" - which is the way it should be...

Yes, except that Dave kindly added the facility to send the conversation text (bottom right on the main P2A screen) to a file. I added a facility in WideFS and FSUIPC5 to show that text on another screen even on another PC.

I have several small screens on the walls of my cockpit: touch screens for EFB2, and WideFS "ButtonScreen"s for captain and first officer to make assorted selections, like menu selections, door opening/closing, calling up GSX, getting ASP4 weather info.

There's also an even smaller screen to which I divert all menus from the P3D4 screen (GSX, ASP4, and in past times RC4, ProATC/X), and that also (switchably) shows this P2A conversation text. Useful for when I haven't picked up all the details form the spoken ATC. It now also gives reference data like next waypoint.

I have no text displayed whatsoever on my P3D screen, which is all outside scenery (210 degrees FOV on a curved screen).

Pete

 

Edited by Pete Dowson

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Posted (edited)

Yes, ATC verbal interaction with AI Traffic is on the list for future enhancements.  Not a trivial effort, so don't know when it will be implemented.

Approach randomization is coming out in the next update.  In the current version, if your options are set correctly, you will get an updated arrival and approach as you near the destination airport.

You can also request vectors to any approach you desire verbally, at any time, even when on a VFR flight without a flight plan, and nearing your destination.

Dave

Edited by Dave-Pilot2ATC
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1 hour ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

Yes, ATC verbal interaction with AI Traffic is on the list for future enhancements.  Not a trivial effort, so don't know when it will be implemented.

Approach randomization is coming out in the next update.  In the current version, if your options are set correctly, you will get an updated arrival and approach as you near the destination airport.

You can also request vectors to any approach you desire verbally, at any time, even when on a VFR flight without a flight plan, and nearing your destination.

Dave

Ok Thanks Dave, that is pretty awesome. I can´t wait. It will bring will bring simulation to whole new level, like if you are approaching airport, ATC will say to you follow the plane in front of you and you can hear what AI Plane and ATC are "talking" with eachother.

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Posted (edited)

RE: @Dave-Pilot2ATC

Hi Dave,

AI Traffic calls - "Not a trivial effort" - I'm sure but it's nice to know it is being considered...

I should have added that my feedback was based on my very limited experience during the trial - and could be subject to error or misinterpretation on my part...

My last flight was IFR - low airways - in the A2A Cherokee - KPOU to KRUT... While I planned the route with Fltplan.com - I copied the route into P2A - I never picked a runway at my destination but I see P2A did - unfortunately it was the one with a considerable tail wind...

So we can change our destination runway ? Hmm - yeah - I was using the "Grammar Helper" function as a crutch and I couldn't find any examples on how to request a - runway change - or - different approach - or - request vectors... I tried a couple RW examples but nothing seemed to work...

My destination was an uncontrolled field and they just instructed me to fly the approach with a final ordered altitude below the IAF minimum... I don't think there is a source of information for approach plate data - so P2A is probably unaware of this altitude information...

I still have the manual maybe I'll poke around a bit more...

Thanks...

Regards,
Scott  

 

Edited by scottb613

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Scott,

If you look in the Grammar Helper under Tower or Approach for Phrase Type = Request and Phrases = Approach, you'll find numerous example phrases for various approach requests that include the ability to request a specific runway, and if you want to specify a specific airport, you just add " at Kilo Romeo Uniform Tango" to the end of the request.

Not knowing what type of approach you were on, I can't tell if the altitude assigned was correct or not.  If it's a published ILS or RNAV approach, the altitude assigned should be the IF or IAF altitude, depending on the situation.  Otherwise, it could be the VFR Pattern altitude or AGL + the designated IFR Pater AGL altitude specified in Config.  

As for picking a runway with a tailwind, this would normally only happen if you have "Force Pilot Runway Selection" option checked and that runway is selected in the Flight plan or requested in a verbal approach request.  Or if the tailwind component is below the Max Tailwind specified in Config, and that runway is a preferred runway, set up in the Runway section of TaxiMnt.  Another possibility is if you are using NOAA weather in P2A and some other source in your SIM, then you might get a tailwind in the SIM even though P2A is seeing a headwind.  There are many variables that go into runway selection, so it's hard to determine why a runway was chosen in a particular situation.

Since you only had a couple of weekends to experiment, if you would like an additional trial period, just send me an email (admin@pilot2atc.com) and I'll extend the trial.  If you do the additional trial, you can send me the log files for flights that don't seem to work correctly and I can try and determine what happened.

Dave

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Hi Dave,

Hah - mighty kind of you sir - you know I'm intrigued - and that's an offer I can't refuse... I would like to do a few more flights so I can see how this is supposed to work when I do everything correctly... I'll send you an email...

Much obliged...

Regards,

Scott

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