7 minutes ago, domkle said:

There are and they deserve consideration but Asobo said there will be an easy mode. I just don’t see the need to this dual architecture. Wrong message to the dev. community.

Unless we use the legacy mode for the AI planes. Those are (currently) not just 3D models being moved through the sim world, their flight is simulated just like your own (they have .cfg and .air files too, and what is in them matters). They don't need the high fidelity flight model, that would just eat performance required elsewhere.

Best regards

Edited November 23, 20196 yr by Lorby_SI

3 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Unless we use the legacy mode for the AI planes. Those are (currently) not just 3D models being moved through the sim world, their flight is simulated just like your own (they have .cfg and .air files too, and what is in them matters). They don't need the high fidelity flight model, that would just eat performance required elsewhere.

Best regards

Good point. 

15 hours ago, rhumbaflappy said:

No one is forcing you to use new or old planes in this case

Agreed but if the new tech delivers, and what we’ve seen so far looks promising, I wish our favorite developers went full steam with it. I am not too worried though as the best dev will feel the urge to do what they have doing for years, push the limits.

10 hours ago, domkle said:

Agreed but if the new tech delivers, and what we’ve seen so far looks promising, I wish our favorite developers went full steam with it. I am not too worried though as the best dev will feel the urge to do what they have doing for years, push the limits.

I don't think we are going to have a lot of problems getting high end add ons especially now that we know that the devs will start to get their hands on a version of the SDK in just a few weeks from now. I think most good devs will go for the high end market because so far it sounds like the planes that come from MS are going to be much better than what we have seen in the past. Want to be companies like Carenado may take shots at the lower end market where those users for what ever reason are happy with less detail. That is fine and it is all good for the future of the hobby.

I also expect to see a lot high quality addon aircraft taking advantage of the new FDE soon after release of MSFS.

So far the main feature of high quality aircraft like the Majestic Q400, the FSL Airbus and the A2A fleet is that they worked around the flawed flight dynamics of the ESP engine and managed to create their own much superior flight dynamics. That probably took the most development time for addon developers.

That won't be necessary any more because accurate flight dynamics will be delivered by MSFS by default now. So addon aircraft developers can just focus on the aircraft systems and the graphics.

3 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

That won't be necessary any more because accurate flight dynamics will be delivered by MSFS by default now. So addon aircraft developers can just focus on the aircraft systems and the graphics.

That's most likely a completely wrong assumption. I'd even guess that designing a top FDE will be a lot more work than it used to be with FSX/P3D.

Just now, FDEdev said:

That's most likely a completely wrong assumption. I'd even guess that designing a top FDE will be a lot more work than it used to be with FSX/P3D.

Can you explain?

45 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

Want to be companies like Carenado may take shots at the lower end market where those users for what ever reason are happy with less detail. That is fine and it is all good for the future of the hobby.

If system design will require less work arounds than in FSX/P3D it might be possible that Carenado can deliver higher quality aircraft.

3 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

Can you explain?

Designing a high quality is already a lot of work. With the added aerodynamic capabilities of the new sim and much higher number of calculated surfaces FDE design will be much more complex.

Don't expect that if the airplane looks like a 172, it will automatically fly like a 172. 

4 minutes ago, FDEdev said:

Designing a high quality is already a lot of work. With the added aerodynamic capabilities of the new sim and much higher number of calculated surfaces FDE design will be much more complex.

Don't expect that if the airplane looks like a 172, it will automatically fly like a 172. 

Okay, I was probably thinking too simple. Let's wait and see.

4 hours ago, FDEdev said:

Designing a high quality is already a lot of work. With the added aerodynamic capabilities of the new sim and much higher number of calculated surfaces FDE design will be much more complex.

Don't expect that if the airplane looks like a 172, it will automatically fly like a 172. 

Same thought. Basically they're going from a descriptive FM (like FSX) to a predictive one (like XP, IL2, and most other current sims).

Now, this means that to have a very accurate FM for a specific aircraft, some tweaking should always be needed, because full CFD is not possible in real time.

As you already said, this is more complex to do in a predictive flight model (as is the case for XP). Unfortunately they gave very few details on the new FM. Ideally, it should be a sort of hybrid, where the predictive results (the "BET" part) can be tweaked or tuned using empirical parameters (the "table lookup" part). Maybe that could make things easier for FM designers?

I'm very curious to get more info on the new flight model. Among all the features of MFS, this is still the most obscure. I don't see many alternatives to the above hybrid approach, if their stated goal is to have aircrafts that fly very accurately both in normal envelope and in extreme aerobatic maneuvers as well.

If MS does allow developers to use the "legacy mode" couldn't that be a backdoor for the early entry into service for helicopters? 

I know that the flight dynamics for helicopters in FSX were considered to be really bad. But my understanding is that eventually there have been some reasonable helicopters in FSX/P3D, like DodoSim, etc. ...

And there would be nothing like experiencing the new scenery in a helicopter in VR ...

28 minutes ago, DocBird said:

If MS does allow developers to use the "legacy mode" couldn't that be a backdoor for the early entry into service for helicopters? 

I know that the flight dynamics for helicopters in FSX were considered to be really bad. But my understanding is that eventually there have been some reasonable helicopters in FSX/P3D, like DodoSim, etc. ...

And there would be nothing like experiencing the new scenery in a helicopter in VR ...

Having said this:

It was possible to port over FSX/P3D planes with some work to XP 11. If MS opens a “legacy mode” why only for FSX-models and not for other sims (XP 11, DCS, etc.)?

Wouldn’t it be easier to port e.g. XP-11-flight models over since they are more accurate and closer to the new flight model than FSX/P3D flight models?

Just a thought…

In a perfect physical and environmental (and high fidelity) simulation, wouldn't physical parameters such as drag and lift, for any given model, it's physical properties and dimensions taken into account, be automatically calculated?

I'm sorry for sounding simplistic, but in a world/simulation, where physical properties for air, temperature (and the interaction of these as well as density changes and forces, derived from the interaction of these physical properties) as well as effects like friction, are correctly simulated with relation to each other, objects passing through such a simulation, would automatically be subject to forces from the interaction of these physical properties. This would induce effects like drag, friction etc on the object - taking it's physical and dimensional properties into consideration... which would results in (at least the ground work) for the flight dynamics of an object.

Again, sorry for being simplistic.

Even if it would be possible, a precise simulation for the whole aircraft would require way too much computing power.

Apparently simulation is still by far not precise enough, otherwise aircraft companies wouldn't need to perform any flight tests and they would never need to modify their aircraft during testing.

When Boeing designed the new 747-400 wing, they couldn't even correctly calculate/simulate the bending moment for a single wing with all their computing power.