I think the VC I've seen are far more realistic as a lot of payware out there :-)Love the GA stuff the glider and the goose :-)As for systems yep it's the default stuff and I don't like it lol...But hence the 3d VC 737-800 looks better as from certain payware developers...Yes I don't like the 2d stuff to unrealistic to me ;-)They did a great job as many will discover in the long run as with every version...There always point that could have been done better but we have a great platform for add-ons :-)Just have fun guys and as I mention before VC has the future ;-)Have fun,Andr

It

This game is different things to different people, and your concerns are perfectly valid. All I can say - Given a strong feature set and a fully enclosed environ, you CAN make the transition to VC, but it takes a little time when you are used to 2d bitmaps. I thought the LDS 767 and PMDG 744 VCs were a little cartoonish at first :-lol but systems fidelity and the ability to interact totally won me over.The only cure for 2d photos of actual cockpits is 'out of sight out of mind' Get yourself well designed fully functional VC aircraft as aircraft you like become available for FSX, and perhaps you too can make the move?regards,Markhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpgXPHomeSP2/FS9.1/3.2HT/1024mb/X700pro256

I think it looks great, especially for a a default. Tony

In this case, most probably the freeware panels will die very soon. You will find no or very few freeware panel developers who will spend their time in creating aircraft aswell, since the 3D panel is a part of the aircraft model.I have said it before, and I say it again,...with FSX most definately, freeware panels/aircraft will be no more....or very few...;-)http://www.scandicair.com/images/sa_banner.gifFSX..:-hmmm...nah.. Still happy without it!! :-hahMy specs are:Dell Dimension 4600 P4/2.8 at 3.0 Ghz1024 Mb DDR333 Dual channel memory (2x256,1x512)AGP 256 Mb ATI Radeon X850 Pro ViVo, flashed to a X850 XT PE. Omega 2.6.87 (CAT 5.12)DirectX 9.0cW XP Home with SP2E171FPb Flat panel monitor 17"370Gb HD (120 GB Maxtor, 250GB Samsung) 7200rpm ATA Lacie 250Gb Extern HDMy work:http://library.avsim.net/search.php?CatID=...&Go=Change+View

Sometimes it is hard to turn knobs especially with head latency. With active camera head latency I used to have the space bar to turn it off so I would turn knobs that way. Or I would most likely use the 2d panel view to do all my settings.Another thing is that some switches are hidden by the yoke in GA planes making them not easily accessible.I had an idea that what if you first clicked a knob to 'lock' your mouse to it and then you can use the mouse wheel anywhere to adjust it up and down. Click again will unlock the mouse from the button. This way you won't slip off the button.

yeh thats why i switched head latency off.

2D Panels were becoming dinosaurs anyway. Track-ir was the meteorite that killed them off, and not a day too soon. :)Even without head tracking, a 3d cockpit is *miles* ahead in immersion factor compared to the best 2d panel. "Cartoonish" is in the eye of the beholder. I mean how realistic is it to look to your right and see a static bitmap window panel and static photo of a co-pilot sitting there, all overlaid on a 3d rendered background? They just can't match up, ever. Overlaying Homer Simpson there with a doughnut hanging off the yoke would at least get a laugh instead of a cringe.I somehow doubt FS11 will even have the option of 2d panels. And yes, agreed, the FSX default 3d pits aren't the best ever, but compared to what they shipped with fs9, I'd say they're a good step up. As usual freeware and payware aircraft developers will produce some truly stunning ones. Can't wait.

>I somehow doubt FS11 will even have the option of 2d panels.That is if we ever will see a FS11. :-roll ... I doubt it very much. :-hahOr,.if MS are continuing what they started, to aim the gamers instead if the simmers, ofcourse the 3D panels will dominate. ;-) http://www.scandicair.com/images/sa_banner.gifFSX..:-hmmm...nah.. Still happy without it!! :-hahMy specs are:Dell Dimension 4600 P4/2.8 at 3.0 Ghz1024 Mb DDR333 Dual channel memory (2x256,1x512)AGP 256 Mb ATI Radeon X850 Pro ViVo, flashed to a X850 XT PE. Omega 2.6.87 (CAT 5.12)DirectX 9.0cW XP Home with SP2E171FPb Flat panel monitor 17"370Gb HD (120 GB Maxtor, 250GB Samsung) 7200rpm ATA Lacie 250Gb Extern HDMy work:http://library.avsim.net/search.php?CatID=...&Go=Change+View

Yeah, head latency was the first thing to get ripped out of my cfg file too. ;)As for this cartoonish 3d vs photoreal panel thing:Anyone remember the game Interstate '76? Decent game, not great, but it made one very big change in design for its day. Most story driven games back then used full motion video sequences to progress the story between game levels. This was an accepted way of doing things but always caused an enormous break in the continuity of the game for the player. Going from relatively simple 3d rendered scenes to actual video and back again was a big speedbump in the suspension of disbelief. Interstate '76 broke out of that mold by using actual game models and environments for their cut scenes, and in doing so set the standard for all games to follow. It worked brilliantly. Once you were in their world, simple though it was, it never jarred you out again. FMV sequences in games are now a very rare thing to see. The mind adjusts to the look of a visual simulation, of any quality (think back to how much you "inferred" from FS v2 or v3), and fills in the blanks. The more consistent that visualization is, the more easily the mind accepts the experience.I'd say 2D panels were the full motion video cut scene equivalent in FS, if somewhat more useful.I like cartoons. :)

I think I will too - head latency does not model the human tendencies to:a. resist the force moving the head, my neck is not complete rubber :) b. keep my eyes fixed on what I'm looking at despite head/body motion.I appreciate the effort, but I prefer it off. Maybe trackir overcomes the above issues?regards,Markhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpgXPHomeSP2/FS9.1/3.2HT/1024mb/X700pro256

I really do not know what is wrong with you people .... some like 2D panels some like VC's.Why you have to fight or prove that one must be better than the other I do not know.Enjoy flying whichever way you like!

regardsEdaka Capt. P[/font color]i[/font color]c[/font color]a[/font color]s[/font color]s[/font color]o[/font color]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v640/edetroit100/eddd2.jpgMy FS9 Videos] AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1024Mb PC3200 DDR, 300Gb HD 256Mb DDR Nvidia 7800 GTX PCI-E, Audigy 2 ZSCH Products Yoke, Pedals and Throttle Quadrant[/font color

>I really do not know what is wrong with you people .... some>like 2D panels some like VC's.I encourage every one to fly with his own preferable settings to enjoy aviation in the form of flightsimming....Man I have to much respect of my fellow flight simmer his opnion that I never will fight about differences;-)Only discuss to share point of views and to learn from each other to get the best out of our hobby... So if you have fun with 2d by all means go for it....It's all about fun and FS9 / FSX or what ever you fly, just have fun...Andr

[face=verdana]FSX..:-hmmm...nah.. Still happy without>it!![/b]Then why continue to clutter up the forum with useless commentary?Seriously! :-wave

Why do you think people will stop making freeware planes?Even Project Opensky is creating VC cockpits for many of its planes, now, and there are many very aircraft with very beautiful VCs.Yes, I imagine the number of people making 2D panels will slow down. I couldn't even tell you the name of any 2D panel authors other than Richard Probst and TinMouse. But that's just me. I've been pretty much all VC for more than 2 years. First thing I did when I purchased the Dreamfleet Archer was turn off the 2D views. Yes, the VC isn't so up to the standards we see today, I still like it better than the static 2D views.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180