X-plane 1150-B10

[Amon1973 1,421]

4 hours ago, RXP said:

This can be also one purpose of an open beta: to collect as much data as possible on as much different machines as possible in order to cross-compare implementations and code logic. For this reason alone, we could even be all running different versions (A/B compare tests).

 

I said on a later post that I got Beta 10 working again.

[CFIJose 5,485]

7 hours ago, mSparks said:

Those "shader updates" -> like "vivid" and "impressive" just change the colour balance, contrast, brightness and gamma correction hitting the graphics driver. AMD and NVIDIA drivers, plus the monitors themselves allow exactly the same kind of modifications.

from the nv control panel

 

This is just the monitor colour profile setting (camera has auto colour balance, so the recording pretty quickly goes back to balanced after changing

But if you are "washed out" you probably just need to reduce the gamma a small amount. 

I've tried this before and I have never been able to use monitor settings to control the shaders or make XP 11 look as beautiful (with crisp colors) and sharp textures. I only achieved this wit X-Vision or lua scrips. Thanks.

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

Xplane washed out colours. If you’re using a Nvidia card, go in the control panel and up your digital vibrance to around 75-85%. Works a treat for me! 

[mSparks 2,090]

6 hours ago, DJJose said:

I've tried this before and I have never been able to use monitor settings to control the shaders or make XP 11 look as beautiful (with crisp colors) and sharp textures. I only achieved this wit X-Vision or lua scrips. Thanks.

its not that the "monitor settings control the shaders".

Its that many of the shaders do the same thing as the monitor settings.

Im possibly at risk of getting to technical but ill try anyway.

shaders are nothing more than a computer program that runs on a gpu specialised in drawing stuff.

many of these shaders take the image that is on its way to the monitor and run a formula on the red green and blue of every pixel.

for example a shader that does

red = red x 0.8

on every pixel 

is the same as setting red to 80% on the monitor. - the value of red is just reduced by 80% in different places - but the outcome is the same.

This doesnt apply to all shaders because there is a lot more you can do with them (such as draw volumetric clouds in the sky or draw blades of grass on a flat ground texture)

But most (the ones I looked at a couple of years ago) of the color mod shaders are literally just doing a color balance on the red green and blue, for which you would be better -imho- just using the hardware provided options to get your preferred colour profile.

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by mSparks

[KNOSSOS 122]

3 hours ago, mSparks said:

But most (the ones I looked at a couple of years ago) of the color mod shaders are literally just doing a color balance on the red green and blue, for which you would be better -imho- just using the hardware provided options to get your preferred colour profile.

What shaders mod are you talking about that " are literally just doing a color balance on the red green and blue" ?

[mSparks 2,090]

59 minutes ago, KNOSSOS said:

What shaders mod are you talking about that " are literally just doing a color balance on the red green and blue" ?

reshade ones that do for example

[ColorMatrix.fx]
ColorMatrix_Blue=0.000000,0.125000,0.875000
ColorMatrix_Green=0.333000,0.667000,0.000000
ColorMatrix_Red=0.817000,0.183000,0.000000
Strength=1.000000

Any of the colour based ones that do

->Any shaders that are changing the colour profile.

e.g. above lhs = more red less green than rhs

but also, like i said, "its complicated".

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by mSparks

[KNOSSOS 122]

7 minutes ago, mSparks said:

reshade ones that do for example

Yes, reshade manipulates image using only rgb, but most post-processing effects in it (including your example) are not just x=x*a and not possible with driver interface (nvidia CP). Curves as an additional example.

So -imho- just using the hardware provided options you can not get your preferred colour "profile". Only simple like contrast, brigthness, saturation, sharping.

 

[mSparks 2,090]

33 minutes ago, KNOSSOS said:

most post-processing effects in it (including your example) are not just x=x*a

it was just an example of how they work for those not familier with what a shader actually does and think they are doing some kind of magic.

gamma/contrast/brightness/histogram corrections and hdr settings are much more potent as is xplanes own settings.

I just dont think anyone should be recommending shader tweeks to anyone that doesnt fully understand all of the above and only then when they are trying to achieve something that really cant be done with simple settings changes - for the most part xp's fps are already below a useable level - making it worse wasting time redoing pixels in software is a fools game.

too much fog - turn the fog down

washed out - turn the gamma down and hdr on

brown textures - turn the red down

how about we turn it on its head

what exactly, do you think any of the shaders tweeks actually do that cannot be achieved by either changing an xp setting or fixing the color profile.

Simulating medical conditions like astigmatism or what people see who need glasses and arent wearing them (blur) really are not what anyone is looking for imho.

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by mSparks

[tonywob 4,770]

Sadly in my case, because my Apple Mac uses an AMD card, there is no control panel to apply some of the effects that xVision did with the shaders. Mac OS allows me to adjust the colour profile, but it's rather limited. If anyone knows of a way to add sharpening in like you can do with the Nvidia control panel on Windows, then please let me know. 

To get xVision to work on Mac OS X, I had to run it through a Windows VM and point it to X-Plane, but it worked.

Another issue I have lately is the SSAO (Ambient Occlusion). It seems really glitchy. It flickers on and off as I pan around erratically. Not a major issue, but something 11.50 introduced. (I've reported it to LR).

 

 

[mSparks 2,090]

7 minutes ago, tonywob said:

Another issue I have lately is the SSAO (Ambient Occlusion).

Prior to 11.50 SSAO on nivdia was badly broken, and had a huge fps impact -> I used to disable it.

right now it seems mostly OK, but the org is currently covered with people reporting the same

"least of their problems"

Also seems pretty common. Although I'm not seeing it:

_______

It is worth deleting the Output/shadercache folder after an update -> this having stale/broken shaders in it does seem to almost certainly be a source of many rendering problems, it will be rebuilt at start.

[CFIJose 5,485]

10 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Xplane washed out colours. If you’re using a Nvidia card, go in the control panel and up your digital vibrance to around 75-85%. Works a treat for me! 

Thanks Buddy!

Not only is it more difficult for me to match the colors and vibrancy with my Monitor and NV Pascal card, but when you change the monitor settings it affects every other program. It's much easier for me to simply set an X-Vision & Reshade preset and forget then to try to get the perfect picture by manipulating the NV panel.

7 hours ago, mSparks said:

its not that the "monitor settings control the shaders".

Its that many of the shaders do the same thing as the monitor settings.

Thanks.

If X-Vision is not fully updated for XP 11.50 after it goes final, at least there's another way to get a beautiful quality picture.

[mSparks 2,090]

35 minutes ago, DJJose said:

NV Pascal card

https://www.geforce.com/whats-new/guides/how-to-calibrate-your-monitor

[RXP 2,338]

10 hours ago, mSparks said:

for example a shader that does

red = red x 0.8

on every pixel 

is the same as setting red to 80% on the monitor. - the value of red is just reduced by 80% in different places - but the outcome is the same.

This is not entirely true because the shader is working in linear space whereas the monitor is working in gama space.

Furthermore, shader computations are on continuous values (they are in fact float values with a finite precision which is high enough), whereas the signal going to the monitor is discrete (only 256 different values for red, green and blue each).

Please consider correction of 0.85:

• No processing:
  red = 0.01, value = 0.01 * 255 = 2.55, monitor output (uncorrected 8bits): 3
   
• Shader processing:
  red = 0.01, shader: 0.01 * 0.85 = 0.0085, value: 0.0085 * 255 = 2.1675, monitor output (8bits): 2
   
• Monitor processing:
  red = 0.01, value = 0.01 * 255 = 2.55, monitor output (uncorrected 8bits): 3,
  monitor correction: 3 * 0.85 = 2.55, monitor displayed (8bits): 3

This is just for illustrative purpose.

Edited June 8, 2020 by RXP

[mSparks 2,090]

6 minutes ago, RXP said:

only 256 different values for red, green and blue each

24bits/px is fairly rare these days, certainly not recommended if you care about these things.

It depends a lot on the monitor configuration and connection, e.g.

DP 2.0 configuration examples
With the increased bandwidth enabled by DP 2.0, VESA offers a high degree of versatility and configurations for higher display resolutions and refresh rates. In addition to the above-mentioned 8K resolution at 60 Hz with HDR support, DP 2.0 across the native DP connector or through USB-C as DisplayPort Alt Mode enables a variety of high-performance configurations:

Single display resolutions
One 16K (15360 × 8640) display @ 60 Hz with 10 bpc (30 bit/px, HDR) RGB/Y′CBCR 4:4:4 color (with DSC)
One 10K (10240 × 4320) display @ 60 Hz and 8 bpc (24 bit/px, SDR) RGB/Y′CBCR 4:4:4 color (uncompressed)
Dual display resolutions
Two 8K (7680 × 4320) displays @ 120 Hz and 10 bpc (30 bit/px, HDR) RGB/Y′CBCR 4:4:4 color (with DSC)
Two 4K (3840 × 2160) displays @ 144 Hz and 8 bpc (24 bit/px, SDR) RGB/Y′CBCR 4:4:4 color (uncompressed)
Triple display resolutions
Three 10K (10240 × 4320) displays @ 60 Hz and 10 bpc (30 bit/px, HDR) RGB/Y′CBCR 4:4:4 color (with DSC)
Three 4K (3840 × 2160) displays @ 90 Hz and 10 bpc (30 bit/px, HDR) RGB/Y′CBCR 4:4:4 color (uncompressed)

HDMI2.0 can do 48 bit/px at lower resolutions, but trip over HDCP and you can get limited all the way down to 8bit/px (4 colours for red green blue each)

 

 

[RXP 2,338]

2 minutes ago, mSparks said:

24bits/px is fairly rare these days, certainly not recommended if you care about these things.

I won't debate this but I doubt it is rare because it is the cheapest.

Furthermore, I believe consumer monitors capable of native 8bits/component are still rare (most are still 6bits + 2bits dither).

In the end, it is better in the shader anyhow especially more so when you're 'stacking' post-processing transformations, let alone being able to do some transformations impossible to do with just RGB bias/gain adjustments (a non symmetrical S curve for example, or a LUT)

The post-processing hack in the shader I've linked about earlier is nearly free, because it is replacing the original shader code which was doing nothing about it with a simple transform which is marginally costing a couple few multiply or adds. It is much much lighter than ReShade or similar which have to grab the FBO, re-render it with their own stack of shaders, then put it back somehow, let alone the amount of RAM and VRAM they are adding to the overall process.