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ajaybala

X-Aviaton Refuses support

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Posted (edited)

Hi all, I have been a customer of x-aviation products since jan 2018. I have their excellent TBM , Skymax, Real weather connector and Custer scenery.

They have an activation process which works on the basis of computer ID. The software seems to ask for activation when it detects certain changes in software or hardware, the details of which I am unaware. In the month of June the activation window started popping up at almost every start of Xplane. I did what i usually do, type freeze and delete the oldest instance the machine and then type a name for the latest instance of activation. On the first of july the same process was repeated but this time i got a dialogue box stating "machine ID locked".  This effectively locked   all the xaviation addons from functioning on my machine. I then opened a ticket with xaviaton and got an acknowledgement mail with ticket number. After waiting for a day i went back to the xaviation website to check ticket status. I could not do so because there is no provision for this in the user account area. I then took to their forum and looked for users with similar issues. I found a few threads on machine ID , but these threads had been locked by xaviation. The users had the same or similar issue to mine and xaviation locked the threads insinuating that either they had pirated or shared the software. I then started a new thread putting forth my issues. I was polite and civil while the xaviaton support seemed condescending and sarcastic in their approach to  my issue. They insist that I am to blame and in their latest reply(9th July) refused further action by saying and i quote

 

"You are an isolated and statistically insignificant case.

Bugs such as you claim to be experiencing do not happen in isolation with numbers totalling 1 user.

The problem is of your own making and you insist that it's not. Mathematics says otherwise.

There is no problem for me to resolve.

 

You have created a problem of your own making and attempted to resolve it with a crude attempt at social media exposition.

You were not accused of piracy yet you insisted that you were not a pirate in multiple threads.

You filed a support ticket, where it instructs you to wait upto 3 days and automatically returns you a ticket ID.

You then started multiple forum threads in an attempt to gain priority service.

You then claimed that you do not have a ticket ID, which was sent to you automatically.

You also sent multiple emails to the ticketing system creating further delay for yourself.

This is a problem entirely isolated to you and of your own making." - Ben Russell

 

I replied

"There has been no reply on the ticket through official channels even after a week, no ticket number, just some acknowledgement that i had raised a complaint through some third party chat app. Hence I had to reach out  for information, and pray tell how do I do that? Through your forum of course! There is no other way to reach you. What social media exposition, may I ask? I am just stating an issue, nothing else.  There is no ticket section in the customer account area after signing in to check the status of the ticket.

You yourself have said that the machine ids generated by my one computer  belong to many different computers, thus insinuating that i am pirating/sharing the software hence I have in my defense stated that i am not a pirate, which i proudly state again.

I have started just one forum thread. I wonder what other forum threads you are talking about.

Just because I am one percent case, you will discriminate and ignore my issue?

How is the problem of my own making? Your software  constantly asked for my credentials on the same machine(which you seem to think i am lying about). Your software forced me to type FREEZE before all activations, deactivating the oldest instance of my machine before it activated the products. Which branch of mathematics are you talking about here? Maths has nothing to do with this.

The problem may be isolated, but that doesn't mean it will be brushed aside. And it is certainly not of my own making."

 

No replies from any of the support staff after that. I am just told that "there is no problem to solve". The end. No action was taken on the ticket and there is no way to ascertain its status.

There is no doubt that xaviation sells quality addons but when they cant be used it is pointless.

I am from India and cannot do much more than post on their forums and hope for good sense to prevail.

It now seems that i can use their products only after I upgrade my computer after which hopefully their software recognises it as a new machine.

Regards

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by ajaybala
spelling mistake

Live today like there is no tomorrow

Ajay Balakrishnan

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2 minutes ago, ajaybala said:

The software seems to ask for activation when it detects certain changes in software or hardware, the details of which I am unaware.

Windows works the same, just changing things in the bios can upset windows, I think my issue was I activated my onboard nick, I think it is a really stupid validation process, and is the reason why some developers wont use it, causes more issues than it solves. But simply put you cant keep changing things and expect it not to,I had to reactivate some of my planes when I upgraded to win10.

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Never had any problems. When pop up screen appears i just fill in my e-mail adres and pasword. Thats it.


Windows 10 Home 64bit, i7 6700k @4,7ghz, G Skill 32 gb ram, Aorus gtx 1080Ti, ssd 4 tb, Asus Z170 , LG UltraWidescreen 2560x1080 34UM67 and HP L1945wv second monitor

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Airfoillabs uses x-jet which is similar. I ran out of activations and they simply reset it.


Live today like there is no tomorrow

Ajay Balakrishnan

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Posted (edited)

Here is the deal (I am a developer who is selling products on X-Aviation):

You get three copies to run on different machines. This allows you to run the same product on three separate computers - compare this to your regular license for other software, like Windows or Microsoft Office or Photoshop?

This is a DRM measure - and if we simply reset that limit for everyone who writes and makes up a story of how his dog ate his hardware, we could just do away with DRM at all. I know that many of our customers would love that, I also think that DRM in general is a hassle. Just like not texting while driving, buckling up, not being allowed to drink before you fly, having to wear a mask when shopping, exercising to not get fat, having to work to get money - all huge hassles that I loath and I think someone needs to make go away!

I agree that the process of how to handle this activation of the three copies can be confusing for some - but there is a certain level of computer savvyness required when using modern software, ignorance does not absolve the necessity to follow the rules.

Now I can also not rule out for certain that some unforeseeable software/hardware malfunction has somehow led you into freezing your own machine. But there is no way for X-Aviation to check that. And if we give everyone the benefit of the doubt - well DRM goes out the window.

I work hard to make the product I sell good so that our customers can enjoy that. I like to get paid for that work - just like everyone does. By handing out new activations to anyone who claims that some weird malfunction has caused him to freeze his own machine ID, I would not get paid anymore, I could not make products like that anymore and you could not buy and enjoy them.

If you buy a car and drive it against a wall - will the car dealership give you a new one?

I think posting here in the open is a very low form of seeking vengeance, we can not verify your claims, but everyone can make their own picture of how credible your story is and decide for themselves.

Jan

Edited by Janov

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41 minutes ago, bbking said:

Never had any problems. When pop up screen appears i just fill in my e-mail adres and pasword. Thats it.

Same here. JJ


Jean-Jacques

CYND, Gatineau-Ottawa Executive Airport, Gatineau, Quebec, Canada

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23 minutes ago, Janov said:

we could just do away with DRM at all.

But clearly ya'll have waaay more smarts than Apple.....

https://www.dww.com/articles/apple-abandons-digital-rights-management

Personally, this kind of garbage is why I would never touch anything with DRM (which is a shame, because some of those xa products are nice), as much as the proponents wish to pretend they are isolated incidents, the only way they can maintain that pretence is to delete complaints.

x-aviation with this nonesense

xplane.org with a general policy of "buy before you try and no refunds"

Better to keep my money for actual hardware and avio benzine and do community stuff for fun.

 

 

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AutoATC Developer, Provocateur des x bоt

x bоt: A creature that dwells from the depths of Microsoft studios, these creatures are mass produced and then sent to work on forums, protecting mother Microsoft at all costs in pointless forums and creating flamewars with anyone that dares to insult Microsoft in anyway.

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43 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Personally, this kind of garbage is why I would never touch anything with DRM

Yes, like X-Plane, for example... 🤣

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Janov said:

Yes, like X-Plane, for example... 🤣

The only problem I have ever had with the XP licence key is how to deactivate it if that's what you mean.

and DRM... no, everything about XP is the exact opposite of DRM, its as wide open and easy to modify to my qwerkyiest desires as software can be, it was obvious from the fully featured 15 minute demo I wanted to pay them for support and to do more, and they have delivered in spades.

And personally, as a developer myself, if one of my support staff was telling valuable paying customers things like

2 hours ago, ajaybala said:

This is a problem entirely isolated to you and of your own making." - Ben Russell

They would be fired on the spot for gross negligence and bringing the company into disrepute....

Edited by mSparks
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AutoATC Developer, Provocateur des x bоt

x bоt: A creature that dwells from the depths of Microsoft studios, these creatures are mass produced and then sent to work on forums, protecting mother Microsoft at all costs in pointless forums and creating flamewars with anyone that dares to insult Microsoft in anyway.

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43 minutes ago, mSparks said:

The only problem I have ever had with the XP licence key is how to deactivate it if that's what you mean.

That may already constitute an illegal action - dependent on the country where you live, of course.

44 minutes ago, mSparks said:

everything about XP is the exact opposite of DRM, its as wide open and easy to modify to my qwerkyiest desires as software can be

You obviously do not know what DRM means, what it entails or what it´s goals are.

Jan

 

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Just now, Janov said:

That may already constitute an illegal action - dependent on the country where you live, of course

nonsense. in no country anywhere is it illegal to uninstall software ever, even the murky depths of China

2 minutes ago, Janov said:

You obviously do not know what DRM means, what it entails or what it´s goals are.

IMHO, the goal of DRM is to prevent users and developers from exercising their physical and moral rights, masquerading as an attempt to prevent "piracy" 

while preventing piracy with pretty much exactly 0% efficiency. (else every product on x-aviation wouldn't be available for free elsewhere) and giving paying customers nothing but grief.

But go ahead, enlighten me.

 

 

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AutoATC Developer, Provocateur des x bоt

x bоt: A creature that dwells from the depths of Microsoft studios, these creatures are mass produced and then sent to work on forums, protecting mother Microsoft at all costs in pointless forums and creating flamewars with anyone that dares to insult Microsoft in anyway.

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Well, mSparks,I think I am wiser than to argue with you. I am not even sure why I took you off my ignore list, I guess curiousity got the better of me and I am paying for it already 😂.

Mistake corrected, thats better...

 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks, personally I really appreciate it when people who can never admit they might be wrong retreat into a bubble where people only ever agree with them. Makes the internet much more pleasant to learn and discuss things.

Edited by mSparks
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AutoATC Developer, Provocateur des x bоt

x bоt: A creature that dwells from the depths of Microsoft studios, these creatures are mass produced and then sent to work on forums, protecting mother Microsoft at all costs in pointless forums and creating flamewars with anyone that dares to insult Microsoft in anyway.

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Ajay,

Do your Windows update and the machine ID will be unlocked.

(I have been there)

Cheers,

Pierre


Pierre

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Janov said:

Here is the deal (I am a developer who is selling products on X-Aviation):

You get three copies to run on different machines. This allows you to run the same product on three separate computers - compare this to your regular license for other software, like Windows or Microsoft Office or Photoshop?

This is a DRM measure - and if we simply reset that limit for everyone who writes and makes up a story of how his dog ate his hardware, we could just do away with DRM at all. I know that many of our customers would love that, I also think that DRM in general is a hassle. Just like not texting while driving, buckling up, not being allowed to drink before you fly, having to wear a mask when shopping, exercising to not get fat, having to work to get money - all huge hassles that I loath and I think someone needs to make go away!

I agree that the process of how to handle this activation of the three copies can be confusing for some - but there is a certain level of computer savvyness required when using modern software, ignorance does not absolve the necessity to follow the rules.

Now I can also not rule out for certain that some unforeseeable software/hardware malfunction has somehow led you into freezing your own machine. But there is no way for X-Aviation to check that. And if we give everyone the benefit of the doubt - well DRM goes out the window.

I work hard to make the product I sell good so that our customers can enjoy that. I like to get paid for that work - just like everyone does. By handing out new activations to anyone who claims that some weird malfunction has caused him to freeze his own machine ID, I would not get paid anymore, I could not make products like that anymore and you could not buy and enjoy them.

If you buy a car and drive it against a wall - will the car dealership give you a new one?

I think posting here in the open is a very low form of seeking vengeance, we can not verify your claims, but everyone can make their own picture of how credible your story is and decide for themselves.

Jan

Generalizing all customers in the same bracket is not fair and not warranted. Dog ate my hardware? We are not children here.

Edited by ajaybala

Live today like there is no tomorrow

Ajay Balakrishnan

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