11 minutes ago, aleex said:

Welcome to the world. People have opinions, everybody has one, and can differ from yours. 

Sure. But some opinions are toxic. That's also a reality in the world.

7 minutes ago, Slides said:

Sure. But some opinions are toxic. That's also a reality in the world.

Nope, bad vibes.. People calling toxic others people's opinion with whom they disagree to shut them up are the toxic ones. A rare breed here, I might say. 

33 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

Nope, bad vibes.. People calling toxic others people's opinion with whom they disagree to shut them up are the toxic ones. A rare breed here, I might say. 

The entire flight sim community is infamous for its toxicity. Those who deny it, usually have something to hide themselves.

3 minutes ago, Slides said:

The entire flight sim community is infamous for its toxicity. Those who deny it, usually have something to hide themselves.

I'd rather say that is a generational problem. Most flightsimmers are men above 55. They simply are not used to the snowflake behaviour of the younger generation where every strong opinion suddenly is labeled as toxic.

Just now, Farlis said:

I'd rather say that is a generational problem. Most flightsimmers are men above 55. They simply are not used to the snowflake behaviour of the younger generation where every strong opinion suddenly is labeled as toxic.

Not at all. Toxicity in online communities actually is even worse among younger generations. But the hostile elitism of the flightsim community is a well known trait for decades. Nothing to do with opinions but how they are presented and all of the gatekeeping. 

It's telling that you need a thread with 7 pages of replies to tell the Avsim community to not pounce on newbies. 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Slides said:

Not at all. Toxicity in online communities actually is even worse among younger generations. But the hostile elitism of the flightsim community is a well known trait for decades. Nothing to do with opinions but how they are presented and all of the gatekeeping. 

It's telling that you need a thread with 7 pages of replies to tell the Avsim community to not pounce on newbies. 

 

 

So I’m elitist and toxic because I don’t agree with your view of MSFS. Fine then 🙂

3 minutes ago, aleex said:

So I’m elitist and toxic because I don’t agree with your view of MSFS. Fine then 🙂

No, you are elitist and toxic because you think you have inside knowledge on the negatives of this sim that no other tester could possibly have. This is typical gatekeeping. And you don't even know my view of MSFS.

Edited July 31, 20205 yr by Slides

21 minutes ago, Farlis said:

I'd rather say that is a generational problem. Most flightsimmers are men above 55. They simply are not used to the snowflake behaviour of the younger generation where every strong opinion suddenly is labeled as toxic.

Oh I assure you, Boomer age males whine and moan with the best of them, despite the pseudo-tough guy bravado they try and project. 

Every older generation for millennia have had the "wouldn't have happened in my day" mentality and shook their head in despair at the younger generation. 😁

Edited July 31, 20205 yr by AllRed

38 minutes ago, AllRed said:

Every older generation for millennia have had the "wouldn't have happened in my day" mentality and shook their head in despair at the younger generation.

I'm very much aware. I myself just entered that phase where I have the feeling that those that came 20 years after me are living on an entirely different planet.

Edited July 31, 20205 yr by Farlis

 Having been on FS forums on and off  for 20 years, I cannot but see that idiocy and unpleasantness are rather well distributed over the generations and not age dependent 😏. Flight simulation is in no way different than the rest of the world. Not more, not less.

Well it's no different form anything else. Some opinions are just not worth listening too. They're misinformed, biased, overly critical, demanding, or just plain dumb. I'd put the opinions of people who think minor scenery bugs in beta impacts the quality of the sim or is in any way cause for delaying the sim into the box of opinions not worth listening to.

3 hours ago, Slides said:

No, you are elitist and toxic because you think you have inside knowledge on the negatives of this sim that no other tester could possibly have. This is typical gatekeeping. And you don't even know my view of MSFS.

I had the same inside knowledge than any other tester. That’s why I know some issues are more concerning for a large number of testers than others. 

But just because you are satisfied with the current build doesn’t mean every tester is and should be. Part of the tester job, and even of costumers, is to be critical. If not, you would be flying on 2D sim nowadays.  

I’ve already given positive feedback, before and during my tester role. But not everything will be perfect, and I think some people should temper their expectations. 

The issue is while youtubers can speak “freely” about the sim, testers can’t (ask yourself why). And while I would like to speak about some important features of the current state of the sim, I can’t. 

13 minutes ago, aleex said:

And while I would like to speak about some important features of the current state of the sim, I can’t. 

Well, you sort of can, indirectly. For example, let's say you can't do something in the new MS sim, but it could be done in say, FSX. You could make a video and let the actions do the talking by alluding to what occurs in the other sim. In this way you are not talking about the new MS sim, but everyone can deduce what you mean.

Of course you have to be careful with this sort of thing. There are loads of things which I'm sure would be interesting to people on Avsim which I could say about my job in aviation, but cannot for security reasons since we are talking about a place which is a known potential target for terrorists, so obviously there is no way I'm gonna mention this stuff. Same thing when you agree to that NDA really, albeit not as critical in terms of actual security in the sense of harm to people; nevertheless, agreeing to the NDA when beta testing is the price of admission, and that is the way it is.

Edited July 31, 20205 yr by Chock

12 minutes ago, aleex said:

 

The issue is while youtubers can speak “freely” about the sim, testers can’t (ask yourself why). And while I would like to speak about some important features of the current state of the sim, I can’t. 

Huh? This is the kind of cryptic nonsense that you are trying to pass off as some enlightenment and informed opinion. It's not.

You agreed to an NDA to participate in an alpha and beta testing program. Every company makes its testers sign an NDA. It's normal practice.

I know the flaws of this sim and they are nowhere as drastic as you are pretending they are. 

 

58 minutes ago, Chock said:

Well, you sort of can, indirectly. For example, let's say you can't do something in the new MS sim, but it could be done in say, FSX. You could make a video and let the actions do the talking by alluding to what occurs in the other sim. In this way you are not talking about the new MS sim, but everyone can deduce what you mean.

Well, you are right, but I prefer to not play with the NDA. That's why I carefully speak in this forum, because I don't want to break anything. On 18th everybody will have it's opportunity to try or read all kind of reviews. An you are right again about the price of admission. I know what signed for when I opted for the testing.

I'm just saying that NDA has been lifted for youtube users, but not for every alpha tester, and that's probably have a reason, a marketing reason in my opinion. But I think that if the NDA was lifted for everybody and not under the agreement with MS, the words might not be so complacent. I'm not saying the sim is a mess, just that people should be careful with their expectations. And I think those are the most empty words I could find to explain it 😅

56 minutes ago, Slides said:

I know the flaws of this sim and they are nowhere as drastic as you are pretending they are. 

It's a matter of perspective. You have your point of view, I have mine, and other people have theirs. I know there are people who thinks like you, but I also know there are people that see this like me. Only the 18th we will see if the sim satisfies the sim community standards. On the graphical aspects is obvious that it has beaten all other sims. 

Edited July 31, 20205 yr by aleex