19 hours ago, ZKOKQ said:

That is why I said approx. I was only 16 bucks out 🙂

I know, I pointed that out because 16 bucks more or less actually makes a great difference because at $150 the package would be at a price point not seen before, meaning it would have gone up instead of staying about the same.

On 8/9/2020 at 11:00 AM, GEKtheReaper said:

Obsolete why? Did you work for LM or PMDG and know for sure that there will be no "life" after MSFS?

I find it a bit strange how people (in this case you) react towards DEV's offering.

Why are you so obviously upset about my comment regarding PMDG's prices?

My agenda is simple: I will criticize, and have criticized, any developer/vendor who I believe is charging too much for their product or service, is selling a poor quality product, or who in some way is not treating their customers fairly.  Period.

What exactly is your agenda?

If you want to spend your money on an overpriced product for a simulator platform that is fast becoming obsolete then be my guest.

Dave

Edited August 12, 20205 yr by dave2013

50 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

Why are you so obviously upset about my comment regarding PMDG's prices?

My agenda is simple: I will criticize, and have criticized, any developer/vendor who I believe is charging too much for their product or service, is selling a poor quality product, or who in some way is not treating their customers fairly.  Period.

What exactly is your agenda?

If you want to spend your money on an overpriced product for a simulator platform that is fast becoming obsolete then be my guest.

Dave

You and everybody else keep saying that P3D and every other sim is going to obsolete once MSFS comes out.

Alpha footage is being targeted to get sales, and if you look even on a high end system with a 2080ti still can’t even pull good frames in high density cities and are full of micro stutters.

 

Will one day MSFS be better than the rest sure but you also realize there will be no addon airliners for MSFS for at least 6+ months if not longer, hell the sdk isn’t even done yet.

You are entitled to your opinion of PMDG being over priced, if you don’t like their pricing then don’t buy it, nobody here knows how much it really costs and to make a return on investment and to expand etc.  and don’t quote some word not allowed about how PMDG licensing for P3D is higher, it’s not entertainment and they most likely had to work a deal with LM to produce in their platform.

and for the last thing please stop saying P3D is going to be obsolete, it’s not and won’t be for a long time, devs aren’t just stopping development and moving to MSFS 100%. There are still things that are work in progress from PMDG such as the BBJ/Cargo 737, the 777-200er, another secret project they’re working on, the FSLABS A319 and upcoming Sharklets package and their secret project as well for P3D. 
 

if these sims were going to be obsolete then all of these devs would hang up the towel and says welp, a new sim is coming but stop everything that makes us money now and go into the future with much uncertainty. Do I wish PMDG was a little cheaper sure but it sure beats the $80-85 for something from Aerosoft that’s full of bugs etc. at least PMDG listen to feedback where it matters to get things right. Same with FSLABS, Leonard etc. 

Edited August 12, 20205 yr by Mroberts95

11 hours ago, Mroberts95 said:

You and everybody else keep saying that P3D and every other sim is going to obsolete once MSFS comes out.

Alpha footage is being targeted to get sales, and if you look even on a high end system with a 2080ti still can’t even pull good frames in high density cities and are full of micro stutters.

 

Will one day MSFS be better than the rest sure but you also realize there will be no addon airliners for MSFS for at least 6+ months if not longer, hell the sdk isn’t even done yet.

You are entitled to your opinion of PMDG being over priced, if you don’t like their pricing then don’t buy it, nobody here knows how much it really costs and to make a return on investment and to expand etc.  and don’t quote some word not allowed about how PMDG licensing for P3D is higher, it’s not entertainment and they most likely had to work a deal with LM to produce in their platform.

and for the last thing please stop saying P3D is going to be obsolete, it’s not and won’t be for a long time, devs aren’t just stopping development and moving to MSFS 100%. There are still things that are work in progress from PMDG such as the BBJ/Cargo 737, the 777-200er, another secret project they’re working on, the FSLABS A319 and upcoming Sharklets package and their secret project as well for P3D. 
 

if these sims were going to be obsolete then all of these devs would hang up the towel and says welp, a new sim is coming but stop everything that makes us money now and go into the future with much uncertainty. Do I wish PMDG was a little cheaper sure but it sure beats the $80-85 for something from Aerosoft that’s full of bugs etc. at least PMDG listen to feedback where it matters to get things right. Same with FSLABS, Leonard etc. 

I never said that P3D would be obsolete "once MSFS comes out". 

I said that P3D will *soon* become obsolete.  This means, to me, within a year or so, but "soon" is a subjective word.

For some people, VHS tapes are still not obsolete.  I had a yard sale a couple years ago and there were several people who bought all my old VHS movies. There are still people who use FS2004.

I'll bet, however, that the vast majority of flightsimmers won't be using P3D too much a year from now. 

Dave

1 minute ago, dave2013 said:

I never said that P3D would be obsolete "once MSFS comes out". 

I said that P3D will *soon* become obsolete.  This means, to me, within a year or so, but "soon" is a subjective word.

For some people, VHS tapes are still not obsolete.  I had a yard sale a couple years ago and there were several people who bought all my old VHS movies. There are still people who use FS2004.

I'll bet, however, that the vast majority of flightsimmers won't be using P3D too much a year from now. 

Dave

In both your posts you say 

1. If you want to spend your money on an overpriced product for a simulator platform that is fast becoming obsolete then be my guest.

To me that means not in a year but within a couple of months at most.

2. Because it's silly to offer such a paltry discount on a product that will soon be obsolete.

Never did you mention a year in either of your posts., You never explained that so I am taking your post at what I see. Usually when people say soon its not a year but to each their own.

Have a good day.

39 minutes ago, Mroberts95 said:

In both your posts you say 

1. If you want to spend your money on an overpriced product for a simulator platform that is fast becoming obsolete then be my guest.

To me that means not in a year but within a couple of months at most.

2. Because it's silly to offer such a paltry discount on a product that will soon be obsolete.

Never did you mention a year in either of your posts., You never explained that so I am taking your post at what I see. Usually when people say soon its not a year but to each their own.

Have a good day.

When you get older you'll discover that a year is not as much time as you once perceived it to be.

Dave

Edited August 12, 20205 yr by dave2013

12 hours ago, Mroberts95 said:

Do I wish PMDG was a little cheaper sure but it sure beats the $80-85 for something from Aerosoft that’s full of bugs etc. at least PMDG listen to feedback where it matters to get things right. Same with FSLABS, Leonard etc.

I recently considered going Airbus for a new challenge and was looking at FSLab's A320. That is $139.95 and it's significantly more expensive for P3D than the FSX version, same as PMDG. I also like the A321 so I thought about adding that expansion as well and that's another $69.99 (or $59.99 with a sale apparently ongoing). So for two variants I would have paid $209.94. Now, that's only the price before VAT. With VAT applicable to my country the final price is $249.83 and that doesn't include the A319. In comparison, the most expensive offering from PMDG is the 747 which, plus the 747-8 expansion, sits at $209.98 total, so still around $40 cheaper and it includes more variants as well.

Looking at Leonardo, the P3D v5 base pack is $111.82. With the expansion the total price is $141.25. This is cheaper in relation to the others of course but it's still above the $100 mark.

Captain Sim managed to divide their 757 offering into so many individual pieces. For example, somehow they felt it was justified to make two separate extensions out of the freighter version (essential plus another one). The freighter versions alone are more expensive than the 757 base pack and total $79.98. The entire 757 package is $205.66. Their 767 sits at $99.76 and is a beta version/early access and only gives you one variant and one set of engines, meaning you even have to pay to get different engines, which is the same for the 757. With the freighter expansion the price will probably go into the $130 range at least and likely higher if they pull the same stunt for the -F as with the 757F. On top of that their pricing model is plain illegal (showing the price as a discount/sale next to the alleged actual higher price while it never goes up to that higher price).

The poster I quoted already mentioned Aerosoft who have developed/are publishing certain aircraft for which the price/quality ratio is way off, e. g. the CRJ (old and new version), and there are probably more that I can't think of right now.

If we are going to question PMDG's model, which is probably understandable to an extent, I'm missing a lot of complaints about other developers. If anything, this shows there may be a pricing issue across a large portion of the aircraft developer branch that really can't constantly be limited to one in particular, no matter if the mob wants you to. This shows how inconsistent and biased, and perhaps also personal in some cases, criticism in this community is or at least can be.

@threegreen I think CS also takes a lot of heat for trying to price up to a higher level than they actually are.  They have some things missing that almost all of us expect with a high end addon aircraft.  

 

Back to PMDG.  Out of payware developers they have been one of the more vocal out there about how revolutionary MSFS is.  So it's like they are signaling we will all be moving on to MSFS, or those who aren't just don't know it yet.  That's why this 737 cargo package will be interesting.  I'll be the first to admit cargo is not my main niche when flying airliners in P3D.  So I may value this lower than others will.  If they include the 737 cargo variant in their 23% off sale.  Then I'll buy it.  If they don't.  I won't.  It sounds funny to say that considering the delta is like 7 bucks.  But when I think about how many times I may fly that plane, spending 30 bucks on it doesn't seem to make the most sense.  

why aren't they releasing the cargo 737 while this sale is going on.  I wanna get that during a sale.  Gotta save bucks wherever I can 

3 minutes ago, Skywolf said:

why aren't they releasing the cargo 737 while this sale is going on.  I wanna get that during a sale.  Gotta save bucks wherever I can 

They had the NGXu expansion package (-600/-700) on sale shortly after release. Maybe it had its own sale right at release, I can't remember for sure.

2 hours ago, threegreen said:

I recently considered going Airbus for a new challenge and was looking at FSLab's A320. That is $139.95 and it's significantly more expensive for P3D than the FSX version, same as PMDG. I also like the A321 so I thought about adding that expansion as well and that's another $69.99 (or $59.99 with a sale apparently ongoing). So for two variants I would have paid $209.94. Now, that's only the price before VAT. With VAT applicable to my country the final price is $249.83 and that doesn't include the A319. In comparison, the most expensive offering from PMDG is the 747 which, plus the 747-8 expansion, sits at $209.98 total, so still around $40 cheaper and it includes more variants as well.

Looking at Leonardo, the P3D v5 base pack is $111.82. With the expansion the total price is $141.25. This is cheaper in relation to the others of course but it's still above the $100 mark.

Captain Sim managed to divide their 757 offering into so many individual pieces. For example, somehow they felt it was justified to make two separate extensions out of the freighter version (essential plus another one). The freighter versions alone are more expensive than the 757 base pack and total $79.98. The entire 757 package is $205.66. Their 767 sits at $99.76 and is a beta version/early access and only gives you one variant and one set of engines, meaning you even have to pay to get different engines, which is the same for the 757. With the freighter expansion the price will probably go into the $130 range at least and likely higher if they pull the same stunt for the -F as with the 757F. On top of that their pricing model is plain illegal (showing the price as a discount/sale next to the alleged actual higher price while it never goes up to that higher price).

The poster I quoted already mentioned Aerosoft who have developed/are publishing certain aircraft for which the price/quality ratio is way off, e. g. the CRJ (old and new version), and there are probably more that I can't think of right now.

If we are going to question PMDG's model, which is probably understandable to an extent, I'm missing a lot of complaints about other developers. If anything, this shows there may be a pricing issue across a large portion of the aircraft developer branch that really can't constantly be limited to one in particular, no matter if the mob wants you to. This shows how inconsistent and biased, and perhaps also personal in some cases, criticism in this community is or at least can be.

I dont have a complaint about the other two such as FSLABS/Leonard because what I get with them is even more than PMDG and warrants that pricing model so I cannot complain about those.

If PMDG were up to that standard of FSLABS etc with snow effects, better windshield affects, ATSU, Better EFB, Dynamic Lighting in all of their cockpits etc I wouldnt have a problem. 

Luckily the NGXU was only $99 and I get that in credit for MSFS.

37 minutes ago, Skywolf said:

why aren't they releasing the cargo 737 while this sale is going on.  I wanna get that during a sale.  Gotta save bucks wherever I can 

Because most Devs do not offer sales on brand new products. Orbx doesnt along with others. If you want to wait for sale another might pop up next year.

33 minutes ago, Mroberts95 said:

Because most Devs do not offer sales on brand new products. Orbx doesnt along with others. If you want to wait for sale another might pop up next year.

I know ...I am just saying.  This isn't a must have product for me as I have everything else for P3D by them.

Edited August 12, 20205 yr by Skywolf

3 hours ago, Mroberts95 said:

Because most Devs do not offer sales on brand new products. Orbx doesnt along with others. If you want to wait for sale another might pop up next year.

burbank is brand new though and orbx is offering a sale on it right now for MSFS.  Just saying that's all

19 hours ago, Mroberts95 said:

Because most Devs do not offer sales on brand new products. Orbx doesnt along with others. If you want to wait for sale another might pop up next year.

As I said above though, the -600/-700 was on sale after release, so they might do the same with the freighter expansion.