Why adjusting control sensitivity is not the answer

[hangar 661]

47 minutes ago, cwburnett said:

 

So I took the TBM out like I did the Baron. I did two test videos (and thanks to those that directed me to the Nvidia Shadowplay recorder, it works much better)... Like with the Baron, my roll sensitivity in sim is set to 0% (so default) and the pitch is -50% based on reduced throw of the controller.  Rudder is -20% and is pretty twitchy on the ground as has been observed by basically everyone...

In the first test, I did a circuit.

In the second test, I did a stability test by going to 5,500' at 200 kts and then testing leaving it alone, then rolling and pitching. I found it to be quite stable, basically flying where I pointed it. If I roll left 30 degrees, it stays there.

 

cw...just curious here, but did the plane require right rudder for climb out?

[ark 1,291]

2 hours ago, w6kd said:

Do you have to switch to the legacy flight model/mode?

How do you switch the sim into legacy mode?

Al

 

[cwburnett 1,809]

2 minutes ago, hangar said:

cw...just curious here, but did the plane require right rudder for climb out?

I was active in the rudder, yes, but I don't recall when or how much, but I definitely needed rudder for both the initial climb and the turns. But I have rudder trim mapped to the yoke so I tend to be pretty active with that. Learned from hours and hours of flying the Dash 8, lol.

[cwburnett 1,809]

9 minutes ago, ark said:

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by cwburnett
Deleted...better answer

[norman_99 209]

Great discussion guys, might take me a little while to catch up as I’ve missed a fair bit. Rob, Can’t wait you try out your adjustments. 
 

[Bob Scott 7,721]

2 minutes ago, ark said:

How do you switch the sim into legacy mode?

Options -> General -> Flight Model,  change top line from "Modern" to "Legacy" with the scroll buttons on L/R

[sd_flyer 6,048]

27 minutes ago, Nedo68 said:

i dont know, this is reality and looks like how i land in MSFS 😂

maybe he just need to adjust control sensitivity ? 😉

 

 

 

He definitely will ask for refund!

[ark 1,291]

2 minutes ago, w6kd said:

Options -> General -> Flight Model,  change top line from "Modern" to "Legacy" with the scroll buttons on L/R

Thanks guys!

[cwburnett 1,809]

2 minutes ago, norman_99 said:

Great discussion guys, might take me a little while to catch up as I’ve missed a fair bit. Rob, Can’t wait you try out your adjustments. 
 

This is a great thread, one of the better ones I've participated in or read. And a refreshing change from some of the others right now 👍

And we have you to thank for it, so... thanks, great topic!

[norman_99 209]

6 hours ago, High_Alpha said:

Well I’d be interested in knowing what issues the turboprops have... I’ve heard the startup isn’t accurate, but are there in flight problems? (it’s hard to understand the ones you’ve described with no cockpit video...). How do they model beta thrust on landing?

Slightly off topic, but historically turboprop modelling has been extremely poorly implemented in the MSFS series, and I don’t see any changes here. 
 

Torque stays constant, and even rises slightly during a climb (it should reduce significantly), ITT seems more connected to torque than power lever position, etc.

Again, not looking to hit exact numbers, but just the the relationships between all the input and output parameters are modelled correctly, so that things such as torque at least move in the correct direction. It has traditionally bee so hard for third party dev to creat accurate turboprop models because the underlying simulation has been so inaccurate. Only a handful of devs with the resources and knowledge to develop a model from scratch outside of P3D have made significant improvements.

[hangar 661]

3 minutes ago, norman_99 said:

It has traditionally bee so hard for third party dev to creat accurate turboprop models because the underlying simulation has been so inaccurate.

this is just so disappointing...I mean I thought this was going to be an entirely new sim from scratch, not a clone bringing in old baggage with it. Who needs or wanted that?

I guess it's back to XP11 where at least I have proper start procedure, spool-up times and a relationship which works fairly well between torque and props.

Edited August 21, 2020 by hangar

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

I loaded Xplane 11 again, oh man that was awful looking trees, tried all of them (orbx, default, Mrx, etc...).

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by SceneryFX

[robert young 2,897]

28 minutes ago, cwburnett said:

This is a great thread, one of the better ones I've participated in or read. And a refreshing change from some of the others right now 👍

And we have you to thank for it, so... thanks, great topic!

I second that.

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

Just an update to the TBM 930 issue, well I reloaded the game and flew out of Challis, Idaho. This time it didn't do it, felt like a totally different plane. I guess it was related to wind gusts at one of the aiports I was taking off from, who knows.

It's still a bit twitchy, but nothing like before. Doesn't make a lot of sense, because at the other airport didn't have the issue with any of the Cessnas or the Diamond DA-62, so not sure overall.

 

[cwburnett 1,809]

40 minutes ago, norman_99 said:

Slightly off topic, but historically turboprop modelling has been extremely poorly implemented in the MSFS series, and I don’t see any changes here. 
 

Torque stays constant, and even rises slightly during a climb (it should reduce significantly), ITT seems more connected to torque than power lever position, etc.

Again, not looking to hit exact numbers, but just the the relationships between all the input and output parameters are modelled correctly, so that things such as torque at least move in the correct direction. It has traditionally bee so hard for third party dev to creat accurate turboprop models because the underlying simulation has been so inaccurate. Only a handful of devs with the resources and knowledge to develop a model from scratch outside of P3D have made significant improvements.

There is one of the turboprops where at least torque falls with altitude, but you're right - another of them i noticed I had to reduce throttle as I climbed....I thought to myself...that's not right! It might be the KA that's more accurate...don't remember right now...

Personally, I don't care that much about spool up and spool down, stuff like that - but I agree that the torque and ITT curves are important, and factors like airspeed and temp should influence what the max power setting is when temp limited.

Hopefully our trust 3PDs can get us a nice turboprop...