I tried an IFR flight this evening with live weather/time of day, so there was a lovely crimson sunset at take-off in the Cessna 152. I was making my way to Cosford, and successfully followed ATC's instructions (after initial confusion, and changing my requested runway for the simple fun of trying out some ATC options), passing through the waypoints to reach my destination. I arrived at Cosford and was given clearance to land on runway 6.

Then I flew round in circles. For a long time. I couldn't, for the life of me, find the runway. ATC had gone silent. I'm guessing there are no runway lights at Cosford, at least on runway 6 (if any real UK pilot knows?)

But is there a way to locate the runway if you can't visually see it? Should ATC have directed me somehow? Does finding a runway without visibility have something to do with VOR? And is the method of locating an unlit runway at nighttime even possible in a Cessna 152, or do you need some fancier navigation equipment?

Clearly I need a better flight school than the one currently built into the sim. I don't think I'll be getting my virtual pilot's license soon, although I can fly the Cessna and land it (when I can see the runway) -- I'm just trying to learn the various methods of navigation.

Well, you could open the VFR Map and steer towards the runway...

Some runways don't have night lighting, some runways (IRL) are operated by the Pilot by tuning a particular frequency - although this has never been modeled in any sim I've used.  Navigraph charts will usually tell you if night lighting is available but then again it might not match what you see in the sim.  Usually most reasonably sized fields upto international airports will have night lighting, beyond that you should do your research before flying.  To be sure you could spawn at the field you are going to land at, change time of day and check that way.....

3 minutes ago, sidfadc said:

Some runways don't have night lighting, some runways (IRL) are operated by the Pilot by tuning a particular frequency - although this has never been modeled in any sim I've used.  Navigraph charts will usually tell you if night lighting is available but then again it might not match what you see in the sim.  Usually most reasonably sized fields upto international airports will have night lighting, beyond that you should do your research before flying.  To be sure you could spawn at the field you are going to land at, change time of day and check that way.....

Yep pilot controlled lights  typically accessible within the same frequency unicom or CTAF,  just click on the mike several times (3-5) and increase or decrease intensity of light

14 minutes ago, n4gix said:

Well, you could open the VFR Map and steer towards the runway...

The VFR map caused my initial confusion. I had it open to begin my flight and was following the line, before I realised ATC were directing me to a different airfield as a waypoint before I was allowed to fly to Cosford, so I turned off the VFR map, thinking that clearly the VFR map isn't meant for IFR. Once I turned that off, I successfully followed ATC's instructions, without telling myself I should be following the line.

Zooming into the VFR map to see where the runway is feels like cheating. You don't have such a display in the Cessna 152. So I'd like to know if there's a navigation method for locating and approaching a runway if you don't have such visual aids.

Edited August 28, 20205 yr by March Hare

That depends on what facilities Cosford (or any aerodrome) has. If they don't have runway lighting, it's very unlikely they will have a localizer and glideslope system either.

Did you ask ATC for directions to the airport?

If VFR in the real world you would be using charts or an EFB like Foreflight or Sky Demon typical for situational awareness.  If old school maybe some charts and you would be aware of VRP (visual reference points) before you leave the ground, you should brief the flight properly so when you get to where your going you understand local topography, landmarks etc.   You could navigate via VOR which may or may not be close yo the field however you could brief this before hand and if you lose situational awareness, head towards the VOR to reset and then make an on course heading to the field again.  There are lots of way to get your awareness back.  However if you arriving at night and the field doesn't have lights, you lose situational awareness my advice would be divert to another field which does have lights!

If IFR in the real world the ATC would do a much better job of getting you where you are going, rather than the ATC in the sim.  

If you lost sight of the field in the sim, you don't have the option of calling ATC and saying you lost the field and request vectors etc.  Its just one of those things, sometimes the airfields blend into the scenery in the sim and its a pain to look around the cockpit whilst turning particularly if you don't have TrackIR or use VR which of course isn't supported yet.

I don't really know what to tell you beyond that......

2 minutes ago, n4gix said:

That depends on what facilities Cosford (or any aerodrome) has. If they don't have runway lighting, it's very unlikely they will have a localizer and glideslope system either.

Did you ask ATC for directions to the airport?

Yes. I found the airport. Just couldn't see the runway. But what you've said is what I wondered, i.e does the airport have such infrastructure.

I'd still like a tutorial, if there is a good one out there, of how to undertake such zero-visual navigation at an airport, and in an aeroplane, that does have the equipment for that.

52 minutes ago, March Hare said:

Does finding a runway without visibility have something to do with VOR?

EGWC does not have any type of instrument approach as far as I can tell. There is the Shawbury VOR/DME navaid about 16NM Northwest of EGWC which you could use to help locate the airport if necessary, but you said you did find the airport. So other than knowing the runway orientation I don't think there is much more you can do if it is very dark and there are no runway lights. Simply put, EGWC is not a good destination at night if there are no runway lights.

Al

Edited August 28, 20205 yr by ark

If you are going to do a night IFR flight, you need to pick an airport with either an Instrument Landing System and/or Illumination. That's not going to be Cosford, because I don;t think it has either of these. Even if it did have, it's an RAF base, so you're not going to be going there normally in a Cessna unless you are flying a military aeroplane.

The real Cosford is not really much of an operational airbase for aeroplanes these days, I think it has an air ambulance based there and there used to be a training school there with Grob Tutors, but whether or not there still is, I don't know, although it is home to the RAF Museum, which is really excellent, and Just Flight holds its Flight Sim show there.

Pick somewhere else for your flight which is more suitable, preferably a major city airport such as Leeds, Liverpool, Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow etc, and when planning the flight, choose ILS for your preferred approach, that way you'll get ATC vectors to set up for intercepting the localiser for that.

I take the points about planning in advance normally, but I just wanted to "try things out" this evening and thought of Cosford as a destination.

It's good to know that what I suspected is true: some locations just aren't suitable for night flights. Something to bear in mind, in which case I can just "cheat" and use the VFR map technique suggested by n4gix if I ever insist on landing somewhere without the capability for blind landings.

I'd really like pointers to some good sim tutorials on IFR and VOR, if there are any out there.

7 minutes ago, Chock said:

...it's an RAF base, so you're not going to be going there normally in a Cessna unless you are flying a military aeroplane.

At least this much I do already know about Cosford, but such is the wonder of the game side of the sim that I don't have to worry about trespassing on a military base in an unauthorized transport 😉

I certainly won't be using it for practising IFR in future, though. I was originally going to take the obvious choice of Birmingham, but had this crazy idea of trying an RAF base instead.

On my real-life wishlist is attending one of the airshows at Cosford. I think my wife has been, many years ago.

15 minutes ago, Chock said:

you need to pick an airport with either an Instrument Landing System and/or Illumination.  That's not going to be Cosford, because I don;t think it has either of these.

Kind of surprising to me that a military airbase doesen't have lights.

Al

4 minutes ago, ark said:

Kind of surprising to me that a military airbase doesen't have lights.

Al

Vast majority of military planes these days have NVG and/or synthetic vision, in addition to which I think Cosford was pretty much always a daylight operation training base.

Edited August 28, 20205 yr by Chock

3 minutes ago, Chock said:

Vast majority of military planes these days have NVG and/or synthetic vision, in addition to which I think Cosford was pretty much always a daylight operation training base.

This is something else I suspected about military planes having night vision. They probably don't need runway lights.