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I felt its time to make an observation here from an official beta testers viewpoint. It's pretty obvious there are some bugs in the program, maybe a few more than there should be. It's not because we didn't see them or ignored them. MS and Aces had (and still has) a very dedicated and hard working group of beta testers.I think we might have set some kind of record reporting/recording bugs. At any rate it's not up to the beta group to make decisions, only report and suggest. Lets all rest assured that most (if not all) of the bugs folks are reporting here are known issues. I'm kind of getting tired of seeing statements that the beta team must have been blind. I can assure you that is about as far from the truth as you can get. I'm sure things are in the works as some of the folks at Aces have pointed out. A little patience will go a long way. Just needed to vent a bit I guess. If youv'e never been a beta tester please realize it's not quite as much fun as you might think. The above statement does not reflect any Aces team or MS policy or official information.Hornit

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I'm not sure a PSA is necessary, as most of us are familiar with beta test cycles. Anyone who volunteers to be a beta tester needs to grow a thick skin for the post release comments. In spite of your disclaimer, it does appear you are throwing the ACES team under the bus, which is not fair either.FWIW, I am having a great time with FSX (undocumented features and all) exploring new options and 9.6 meter mesh in my area of the planet. I have the Aeroworx B200 moved over and performing much better in the VC than FS9. Great fun! Thank you for your effort and contribution.Bob..:)

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I fully understand your situation, as I've been reading about the FSX Beta process on various forums :). I'm sure you all did a good job with the testing :D

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Jim, I certainly understand your need to vent. I can't believe some of the stuff I read from the ignorant about the Beta Testers. The presumption that the Beta Testers are some how responsible for the flaws remaining in any product is really beyond the "pale", to say the least. I think it would someday be very instructional for a group of Beta Testers write an expose on what exactly their participation entails. I think most readers would be amazed. :)

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Hi Tom,good idea! Maybe in that same expose we can gloat a bit about the lavish gifts we received in appreciation for overlooking inconvenient bugs. Can we, can we, huh, huh?:-halo Cheers, Holger

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Holger, good grief... You just gave the conspiracy types material that they will put to use for years!!! :-lol

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Thanks Hornit for the info.From what I have read it must of been a real mess. Maybe FSX was just to much to soon. There is a diamond in the rough there it just may not come out until a big patch or FSX1 or FS11. What ever they will call it.I still like FSX myself and have hopes for it.

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I for one never thought for one second that any bugs not fixed were due to the beta testers not finding them. I am not sure who in their right minds would think that. We all know that MS is a business that is out to make money and release a product. If they fixed every bug they knew about then they would never release a product. I'm sure Aces knew all about the bugs in the game and released it on schedule because they made a go/no-go decision based on the severity of the remaining bugs. Yeah I'm sure that some of them should have been fixed before RTM (activation bugs), but I haven't read any posts laying this blame on the beta testers. Anyone with any common sense knows that these decisions always come down to the bean counters and project managers. If anyone is to blame for any problems then it is overwhelmingly the PM(s).

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Well I don't know about you-but I spent countless hours testing the thing the whole summer when I should have been doing other things so I could get a free copy without any documentation. That is about as lavish as it gets.... :-) A poster did point out that I must have sold my soul for the free copy-so I guess I paid a heavy price though....http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

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Any person, who has worked in the food chain for any small,or large company should know the how this would have worked. The frustration of the Beta Testers had to be unbearable knowing what Aces,and Microsoft were about to do. One cannot,and should not hold any of the Beta Testers responsible for any of the "Bug's"that did not get addressed by these two company's. My hat is off to the company's for the thought of including the top Scenery Guru's in our world. I only hope every one has the patience of Jobe to give this a chance to straighten this out. Microsoft was supposed to have a patch for the Deluxe Version two days ago,because of the "1722 error" there are thousands of us out there who can only look at our boxed DVD and hold our breaths. So some of these small "Bugs" are small potatoes. Two thumbs up to the Beta Testers! Ken

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Great post Hornit. I'm glad to see some beta guys not following the easy path of attacking ignorance with attitude like I had done in the past, which almost destroyed my ability to even function at Avsim.Best,Randy J. Smith<<>>

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Well personally I'd just like to thank you guys. Through your testing you gained early knowledge of some issues (as well the good things), resulting in the ablity to aid the community and make the product better - sooner. The more knowledge about the product and its workings, will make it a better product for all of us in the future.And donating your time, for a copy of it.. That's devotion to the hobby - period. Thank You.So just doing some quick math here: 70 dollar game divided by a minimum of say 250 hours is = 28 cents.Heck I'll double that, I'll give you 60 cents an hour to make mea totally customized landclass with all new textures. You only have to do the AB/BC/AK area. Oh yea - in under 250 hrs - Thats my budget ;)Best RegardsGarett

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Sure, Garett, but you already fixed that problem, and did it pretty well! So, you'll just have to choose a harder challenge.Best regards.Luis

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Thanks Luis, but heyThat only a TEMP fix ... just to buy you guys some time. I don't want any slacking off just because of that hack job ..;)Regards'Garett

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I just thought I would add my two cents to this discussion. As a BETA Tester I (and my fellow testers) worked pretty hard getting FSX to where it is today. As was said here, some problems did not get fixed. But, it wasn't because they fell through the crack. As a team I think we supplied ACES more bug reports than any other version of FS in the history of the project.In fact, that reporting is still going on. The developer is monitoring all the forums as well as the BETA Test Newsgroup site (reports are still pouring in). I may be going out on a limb but I believe there will be a patch coming soon - maybe before the first of the year when Vista is released.So, please be patient. Many people are working to bring you the very best sim to date. I believe that when the major problems are fixed and the tools delivered we will have a revolutionary product that everyone can enjoy.Frank

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The Beta testers were great can you imagine what we would of got without them.*:-* They must of fought hard to get things fixed.

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>I'm not sure a PSA is necessary, as most of us are familiar>with beta test cycles. Anyone who volunteers to be a beta>tester needs to grow a thick skin for the post release>comments. In spite of your disclaimer, it does appear you are>throwing the ACES team under the bus, which is not fair>either.>>FWIW, I am having a great time with FSX (undocumented features>and all) exploring new options and 9.6 meter mesh in my area>of the planet. I have the Aeroworx B200 moved over and>performing much better in the VC than FS9. Great fun! Thank>you for your effort and contribution.>>Bob..>:)>Tried to PM you but your profile is disabled. I have the same system as you except I have a P4 3.2 with HT. Could you post or PM your settings or even email your config file? I'm really enjoying FSX, and I am in the process of trying different settings. I think with your similar specs you could help.Thanks in advance!Paul Dsimviator (at) gmail.com

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